The Price of Investigating Consciousness Deeply

[Javfly33]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Well, who is it that wants to become enlightened. It sure ain't God. Hehe. Nor the Aliens or the animals or the trees and the birds and the racoons or ants. 

In how I see It, There is not a Who that wants to become enlightened, rather the Existence seeks to break the boundaries, whether those are thoughts, physical body, energies, etc...

I think is incorrect to understand Enlightment as a trophy that one gets or "status" that one has, rather, is a certain state of Being, that instead being based on limitations and identifications, is in expansion and boundlessness.

 

Edited Sunday at 08:06 PM by Javfly33

[Jannes]

I once had a similar intuition that there could be a reality which was exactly that, manifestations of things which obeyed completely different rules of reality like fire out of ice, happiness out of wooden blocks, water out of rock material, ... yeah you are right that would be pure consciousness = without limits. 

I wonder if there is any connection to art or abstraction here. The more you manifest yourself in this dream the more you feel that the rules of reality are real and hard, the more your consciousness grows the more loose reality gets. Maybe between everyday consciousness and pure consciousness there is a happy medium where reality can be viewed in a more loose way so that you get out of the box of ordinary reality while still making sense and connecting to the manifestations at hand. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Javfly33 said:

In how I see It, There is not a Who that wants to become enlightened, rather the Existence seeks to break the boundaries, whether those are thoughts, physical body, energies, etc...

I think is incorrect to understand Enlightment as a trophy that one gets or "status" that one has, rather, is a certain state of Being, that instead being based on limitations and identifications, is in expansion and boundlessness.

 

Good explanation. The intensity of human impulses are inversely proportional to openness or enlightenment. Triying to achieve enlightenment is a human impulse because it comes from the desire of scaping from suffering, then it's a boundary 

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I think is incorrect to understand Enlightment as a trophy that one gets or "status" that one has, rather, is a certain state of Being, that instead being based on limitations and identifications, is in expansion and boundlessness.

OK fine. This is possible to achieve with simple exercises. It is already the case, but the mind is what's stopping the recognition. Drop all labels and identifications NOW...WALLA....ENLIGHTENED. They come back, drop it again. Keep doing this until the state sticks. Still an experienced state. The one that doesn't need enlightenment or looking to get enlightened cannot know the difference because it is everything and cannot feel or know it's enlightened. That's where I'm practicing to stay at. Not at this human's level where it can say I'm being enlightened. It is not who I am, so why waste time there.

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Do you want to be enlightened?

There is only NOW. Anything I want to be will only be from mind and it's quests. Yes, I want to be healthy, yes I want to have things to support myself and enjoy life and blah, blah. These are experiences within the NOW. Nothing tangible or can be held unto. Getting enlightened suggests something to hold unto. A state of being. Which is for the mind.

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Drop all labels and identifications NOW...WALLA....ENLIGHTENED.

Enlightenment is not just that, it's much more, is being open to the real nature of existence 

[Javfly33]

40 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Nobody in this forum is enlightened. Complete enlightenment at all levels is something extremely rare. I'm not sure if it's possible being a human, although some claim that it is

Yeah I think the same is an ongoing process.

Thats why im always alert to the messages of "there is Nothing to get".

There is a lot to get. 

10 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Dimensions of Awakenings are possible, yes, it's unlimited. So what, it's still just an experience the All will be having. I'm not downplaying experiences, just calling them out for what they are. It's the same as me living in a rundown house VS a mansion, or drinking cheap vodka VS the most expensive kind there is. You will call me audacious for saying this, but that's the mind making the distinction. To the Universal mind it's all the same. 

In how I peceive It is a state of Evolution of the Intelligence, rather than a Mind experience.

For example a human is just a certain Evolution of an intelligence. 

You have to realize Existence is an on going process, is going through an Evolution, is not stuck. Altough sometimes It feels like that.

 

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Good explanation. The intensity of human impulses are inversely proportional to openness or enlightenment. Triying to achieve enlightenment is a human impulse because it comes from the desire of scaping from suffering, then it's a boundary 

Yes, a boundary for that which is boundless, feels invevitably impending

I believe animals do not have this seeking because they do not experience boundaries, they are simply bound to the compulsion of automatic reactions, which ironically is a certain freedom in itself 

 

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

OK fine. This is possible to achieve with simple exercises. It is already the case, but the mind is what's stopping the recognition. Drop all labels and identifications NOW...WALLA....ENLIGHTENED. They come back, drop it again. Keep doing this until the state sticks. Still an experienced state. The one that doesn't need enlightenment or looking to get enlightened cannot know the difference because it is everything and cannot feel or know it's enlightened. That's where I'm practicing to stay at. Not at this human's level where it can say I'm being enlightened. It is not who I am, so why waste time there.

The point is you Will lose the body at a certain point, at that point is not anymore a state is a reality. 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Enlightenment is not just that, it's much more, is being open to the real nature of existence 

Of course I was being a bit vague and facetious; point is, enlightenment if you want to call it that, is already the case. I look outside and i see the real nature of existence - without the mental chatter, that is. Straight up, raw and alive. Can't get any more open than that. Leave the mind alone...WALLA, you're open.

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Javfly33 said:

The point is you Will lose the body at a certain point, at that point is not anymore a state is a reality. 

Exactly. Bingo. I'm not the body. Go ahead and use the body for the mind's enlightenment thrills while I bask in what is - what doesn't need enlightenment.

[Princess Arabia]

You can either make life simple or complicated. That's the beauty of duality. You can either be present or live in the past and future. You can either listen to Gurus or the heart. You can try to open up the illusory existence or open up to who you truly are NOW. You can attach to the energy of suffering or allow it to be. You can either be human or the one aware of the human. It's endless what you can be or do. That's the freedom. Freedom to not be free is also freedom. Freedom doesn't mean the end of suffering because freedom is energetic and is also free to suffer.

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Of course I was being a bit vague and facetious; point is, enlightenment if you want to call it that, is already the case. I look outside and i see the real nature of existence - without the mental chatter, that is. Straight up, raw and alive. Can't get any more open than that. Leave the mind alone...WALLA, you're open.

It's not only stop the conceptual mind, there are energetic barriers that are beyond the words. Any bias is a barrier, that's why it's difficult. 

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Any bias is a barrier, that's why it's difficult. 

Mind. Of course it's difficult to drop all biases, labels, etcetc. Why try. It's the mind that wants to do these things and it's at war with itself. It created these things and now it wants to destroy them. It's only difficult because it's mind that wants to open mind, to destroy mind, it is fighting with itself. You will be dead once you achieve that openness. Are you sure you want to die. You don't, or you would be. All this trying to open up to existence is how you're staying alive. The mind that, is. It needs something to do. In your case, it has tricked you into believing what it's doing or trying to do is worthwhile because you see nothing else more worthwhile doing. It's the mind's clever way of keeping itself alive. It's your only barrier right now. You don't want to die. You don't want enlightenment. If you did, you wouldn't be trying to accomplish anything in this respect. You would let it go and let be.

[Princess Arabia]

26 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Complete enlightenment at all levels is something extremely rare

So is caviar.

[Ishanga]

12 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You can either make life simple or complicated. That's the beauty of duality. You can either be present or live in the past and future. You can either listen to Gurus or the heart. You can try to open up the illusory existence or open up to who you truly are NOW. You can attach to the energy of suffering or allow it to be. You can either be human or the one aware of the human. It's endless what you can be or do. That's the freedom. Freedom to not be free is also freedom. Freedom doesn't mean the end of suffering because freedom is energetic and is also free to suffer.

I think in the end game we are all saying the same things really. Life is both simple and complex, layers again, and yes either being present or past/future, that is a choice, but the choice is hidden or not recognized and that is where the work is.. 

You talk about Mind allot, which is Good! Mind is beyond thoughts and thinking and this stuff, this stuff is society garbage feed, you have no choice of the content of it, and the capability to have this sort of Mind is Awesome, but if it is in control which it is for most ppl then that is where the problem, same with Ego or anything else, so the work is not in the realm of Absolute, Truth of Reality as we all see it which is similar, its recognizing it, which is Conscious Awareness and that is where the work/Sadhana and what all the Guru's are here to help with...

Freedom is the end of suffering because Freedom means Choice, Suffering is Human created, no other life form Suffers, they feel pain I would assume since I cannot remember being a Flower or Animal, but only We Suffer, again this convo about Suffering vs Pain will come up, Pain is healthy and needed for Body/Form Survival, its like traffic lights, Suffering is not needed, so Freedom for Us Humans is choice, if You want to Suffer (I don't understand why when you have the choice available to You) You can or be Blissed Out if that is Your Choice.

Now Ultimate Freedom is none of this, is back to the Absolute Realm, no Body or Mind or this or that to contend with...That is the what Moksha/LIberation is all about!

[Ishanga]

Enlightenment is Rare but we all have the capability equally for the most part, yes there are those that are disabled in many areas and its not there for them, but for most we are all capable,

But we live like cave men mentally and Awareness wise, still gathering, still searching outside ourselves, just different ways of doing it and the objects have changed, not fire we gather anymore we gather shit, and thoughts and ideologies...

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

it has tricked you into believing what it's doing or trying to do is worthwhile because you see nothing else more worthwhile doing. It's the mind's clever way of keeping itself alive. It's your only barrier right now. You don't want to die. You don't want enlightenment. If you did, you wouldn't be trying to accomplish anything in this respect. You would let it go and let be.

I don't think so, it's like a natural tendency. It's not something to achieve, is an inevitable tendency that happens 

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

, so Freedom for Us Humans is choice, if You want to Suffer (I don't understand why when you have the choice available to You)

Because you haven't understood the energetic nature of suffering. It's energy. There's no one actually suffering. You see, those kinds of questions that you asked will continue to come up when you don't realize there's no one there. Not in the sense that it's a robot or an empty shell but it's energy. All energetic patterns. A construction. Yes, choice, but it's not the human making the choice, choice is it's own "entity". It only seems as if you're the one making a choice. It's the choice energy at play. You choose the salad over the burger because of the construction. You might change your mind and go with the burger but it's also the construction of changing your mind at will that's at play.

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I don't think so, it's like a natural tendency. It's not something to achieve, is an inevitable tendency that happens 

Yes, it happens. I agree. It's the mind's activity doing it, nonetheless. There's no separation from breakingthewall and mind. 

[Princess Arabia]

13 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

yes there are those that are disabled in many areas and its not there for them,

This is key right here. You might not even realize how profound this statement is right here, but it is the main thing that woke me up, so-to-speak, from my slumber. There are no humans left behind. There are no disabled humans on the existential level - only appear to be. Only in appearance and to the mind. Only within the illusion of Maya. Only in the matrix. This is what it appears like. The energetic form. Yes, we live like this and form our reality from all this and put disabled people in nursing homes and treat them differently and the rest, but it's only the perceived form that appears disabled. No one is more disadvantaged than the other. Only in appearance. So enlightenment is not for the advantaged and "oh poor me" for the disabled. It is already the case even for them. 

[Ishanga]

8 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Because you haven't understood the energetic nature of suffering. It's energy. There's no one actually suffering. You see, those kinds of questions that you asked will continue to come up when you don't realize there's no one there. Not in the sense that it's a robot or an empty shell but it's energy. All energetic patterns. A construction. Yes, choice, but it's not the human making the choice, choice is it's own "entity". It only seems as if you're the one making a choice. It's the choice energy at play. You choose the salad over the burger because of the construction. You might change your mind and go with the burger but it's also the construction of changing your mind at will that's at play.

I would have to disagree here... We are here to explore this Potential called "Choice", and we have Choice in the deepest ways possible, its been said that we can even choose the womb we are born into, I am not saying I believe this or disbelieve this, but its been stated, so there is an entity, a unique sort of Being, made from all the same stuff to explore this sort of Reality which is an Expression of Ultimate Potential which is also known as Absolute..