Is Stage Green Currently Losing Influence?

[Basman]

Just now, Stovo said:

Much of the European right is to the left of the democrats, e.g. the British conservative party. 

There does exist a populist right in Europe but they're still to the left of most Republicans. The Republican party would be seen as an extremist party if it was in Europe. 

That is hilarious. God bless America.

[Kid A]

55 minutes ago, Stovo said:

The Republican party would be seen as an extremist party if it was in Europe.

I sure view them as that. It wasn’t like this before though. Maybe just 12 years ago they were kind of a “nice” version of the most conservative party in the Norwegian parliament. Now they remind me more of, as you said, Russians.

[Leo Gura]

In a sense nothing about the Republicans has changed. They were delusional lunatics during the Bush years, Clinton years, Obama years, and now Trump years. The surface seems to change but the ideological reactionary delusional nature of it is fundamentally the same. They are incapable of coming up with anything truly new. Just reacting like sheep against X, Y, or Z flavor of the decade.

It's important to see that Trump is not some special case, he is the logical extension of their last 30 years of reactionary antics, BS, and stupidity.

The same stupidity that voted for Bush voted for Trump.

Edited Monday at 07:50 PM by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

In a sense nothing about the Republicans has changed. They were delusional lunatics during the Bush years, Clinton years, Obama years, and now Trump years. The surface seems to change but the ideological reactionary delusional nature of it is fundamentally the same. They are incapable of coming up with anything truly new. Just reacting like sheep against X, Y, or Z flavor of the decade.

It's important to see that Trump is not some special case, he is the logical extension of their last 30 years of reactionary antics, BS, and stupidity.

The same stupidity that voted for Bush voted for Trump.

They've kept shifting more and more and more to the right ever since the election of Reagan in 1980.

However, because most Americans are conservatives or moderates and as long as the extremely influential right-wing propaganda machine keeps growing stronger, it's hard for me to see how Trumpism and the Republican party will ever lose power at the national level again for the foreseeable future.

I know you've said a number of times before that Trumpism and the Republican Party will eventually collapse, leading the country to desire more liberal policies. But what if too many voters, despite acknowledging Trump and his party's role in the country's terrible crisis sometime in the future, continue to vote Republican due to their conservative or moderate values and perception that Democrats have shifted too far left in this day and age?

What if they're like "I'd rather die than vote Democrat ever again, even if it's someone like Gavin Newsom because they are all radical leftists who are even worse at running the country!"?

Edited Monday at 09:20 PM by Hardkill

[Emerald]

12 hours ago, The Renaissance Man said:

Not directly! Tate "showed the way" to misogyny! Incels by themselves tend to remain clueless and desperate. It's too much for them to figure out by themselves how to become attractive after all those years of having different beliefs. So they either:

• Remain incels for life
• Desperately seek solutions elsewhere, adopting anything that makes them improve the hopeless situation (even just the mental side)

Tate, and some toxic aspects of pickup, can lead to misogyny (point 2).

For the full reasoning behind why misogyny is convenient and so easy to adopt from their perspective, my post just above explains my opinion.

Not all nice guys become misogynysts.

 

I disagree. Here I do agree with Leo instead. Your typical incel is needy, shy, and awkward around women. Your typical "misogynist", or "asshole", doesn't give a shit. And confidence and being an asshole gets you laid 100x compared to neediness.

Not all nice guys become misogynysts, not all confident guys are misogynysts. But we're talking about two kinds of misogynysts, we need to make a distinction here:

• The Tate kind, who is stage red, confident, manipulative, narcissistic, but still confident!
• The incel kind, who becomes misogynyst after years of being a desperate nice guy with zero success, after hearing convenient Tate-like philosophies.

Will many (maybe most) women reject a narcissist? Possibly. But with incels we're talking zero success. Awkward, shy little boys no girl ever felt attracted to. And I argue they are like that because they have low self-esteem, aka they consider women goddesses, as I said again in my post just above. And this philosophy revenge-swings back from veneration to resentment.

 

Conclusion:

Incel-misogynists are born as nice guys, suffer because their neediness repels women, and adopt convenient toxic ideologies.

Natural-born, stage-red misogynists are much more confident and less awkward, although toxic, and so still get laid much more.

The first is developed as a desperate coping mechanism (and can be transcended much more quickly), the second comes from an actual lack of development and empathy.

 

Or at least, this is my opinion and personal experience going through something very similar.

Certainly, Andrew Tate draws in guys who are insecure and he exacerbates the misogynistic feelings that were already there.

But the issue that I take is that you think of overtly aggressive guys like Tate as the average misogynist.

My experience has been that for every 10 regular, awkward, insecure guys who are misogynists, you have 1 macho aggressive misogynist like Tate.

I suspect the general populace over-estimates the Masculinity, aggression, and virility of the average misogynistic guy. 

When I've been on the receiving end of misogyny, it's usually some really insecure average guy who's gotten resentful and is trying to take me down a beg.

But perhaps that's just my own experience. And maybe there are more aggressive emotionally stunted misogynists who have gone numb to their vulnerabilities than there are insecure and vulnerable misogynistic guys.

It just doesn't seem to be the case.

[Raze]

12 hours ago, The Renaissance Man said:

 

Conclusion:

Incel-misogynists are born as nice guys, suffer because their neediness repels women, and adopt convenient toxic ideologies.

Natural-born, stage-red misogynists are much more confident and less awkward, although toxic, and so still get laid much more.

The first is developed as a desperate coping mechanism (and can be transcended much more quickly), the second comes from an actual lack of development and empathy.

 

Like Emerald you are forgetting what is probably the most source cause of misogynistic behavior and beliefs in men, a man who didn’t start out a misogynist, was somewhat successful with women, then became misogynistic after bad experiences with women.

It is a common trope called the jaded player.

Even a woman named Norah Vincent who did an experiment where she tried dating women as a man said after a month she started having misogynistic thoughts despite herself being a woman who had dating women as a woman in the past.

Edited Monday at 10:26 PM by Raze

[zazen]

@Raze That’s true. Once you get to witness the cheating that takes place, the cunningness involved, and the general level of stress induced from relationships - it can jade a man. You hear similar stories from friends in relationships and who’ve been “successful” also.

Also, what gets interpreted as misogyny is sometimes just carelessness. Misogyny is a active hatred and disdain of women, some times - I’d say a lot of the time player types simply don’t care and are indifferent - which is why they also do well.

But indifference also causes hurt - it’s just not a active hatred towards the opposite sex. 

Edited Monday at 10:43 PM by zazen

[Raze]

1 minute ago, zazen said:

@Raze That’s true. Once you get to witness the cheating that takes place, the cunningness involved, and the general level of stress induced from relationships - it can jade a man. You hear similar stories from friends in relationships and who’ve been “successful” also.

Also, what gets interpreted as misogyny is sometimes just carelessness. Misogyny is a active hatred and disdain of women, some times - I’d say a lot of the time player types simply don’t care and are indifferent - which is why they also do well.

But indifference also causes hurt - it’s just not a active hatred towards the opposite sex. 

I’m specifically talking about misogyny as in disdain or hatred of women, it is common in jaded players, not simple indifference or even condescension. 

[kamwalker]

Orange isn't going away in America. Tbh it has only gotten stronger these last few years. Most companies are drilling harder and harder into hyper efficiency and profit generation at the expense of job satisfaction. Leo is right that most want the image of being green while functioning at orange. Notice your bosses always say all the right things in meetings about how they value you, promote mental health, diversity, etc and yet they will fire you in a heart beat and replace you with someone else as soon as they can if you don't fit into their bottom line. Look no further than modern day healthcare, a sector you would expect human decency to be at the core of its existence and yet it has been fucked into oblivion by private equity and reduced doctors into grunt workers who are just cogs in a wheel whose purpose is to churn out as many patients as possible. It's not about providing the best quality care for humans. It's a business like everything else in this country 

[Emerald]

36 minutes ago, kamwalker said:

Orange isn't going away in America. Tbh it has only gotten stronger these last few years. Most companies are drilling harder and harder into hyper efficiency and profit generation at the expense of job satisfaction. Leo is right that most want the image of being green while functioning at orange. Notice your bosses always say all the right things in meetings about how they value you, promote mental health, diversity, etc and yet they will fire you in a heart beat and replace you with someone else as soon as they can if you don't fit into their bottom line. Look no further than modern day healthcare, a sector you would expect human decency to be at the core of its existence and yet it has been fucked into oblivion by private equity and reduced doctors into grunt workers who are just cogs in a wheel whose purpose is to churn out as many patients as possible. It's not about providing the best quality care for humans. It's a business like everything else in this country 

100%

[Hardkill]

36 minutes ago, Emerald said:

100%

So, then what’s was the point of having a political awakening about all of the grosteque levels of inequities ever since Trump first rose to power in 2016 if the sobering reality is that nothing more can be done about any of these things for the foreseeable future, especially now that Trump and MAGA will oppress the 90+% of Americans until probably we’ve all passed away?

Edited yesterday at 03:29 AM by Hardkill

[Raze]

1 hour ago, kamwalker said:

Orange isn't going away in America. Tbh it has only gotten stronger these last few years. Most companies are drilling harder and harder into hyper efficiency and profit generation at the expense of job satisfaction. Leo is right that most want the image of being green while functioning at orange. Notice your bosses always say all the right things in meetings about how they value you, promote mental health, diversity, etc and yet they will fire you in a heart beat and replace you with someone else as soon as they can if you don't fit into their bottom line. Look no further than modern day healthcare, a sector you would expect human decency to be at the core of its existence and yet it has been fucked into oblivion by private equity and reduced doctors into grunt workers who are just cogs in a wheel whose purpose is to churn out as many patients as possible. It's not about providing the best quality care for humans. It's a business like everything else in this country 

Profit motive is fine if we have proper checks and balances to keep their incentives in the right direction 

[Emerald]

23 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

So, then what’s was the point of having a political awakening about all of the grosteque levels of inequities ever since Trump first rose to power in 2016 if the sobering reality is that nothing more can be done about any of these things for the foreseeable future, especially now that Trump and MAGA will oppress the 90+% of Americans until probably we’ve all passed away?

You're thinking too short term. 

"The wise man plants the seeds to trees that he will never sit under the shade of."

It's only when you set your vision for humanity outside of yourself and connect it to all the people of now and many generations beyond our own, that you can find motivation and meaning to move towards a vision for a better world.

Also, you're not seeing the cyclical nature of collective happenings... and that things always arise out of their opposites.

Things will ebb and flow within a proximal range during our lifetimes changing a lot in some ways and a little in other ways. Right now just happens to be an ebb period, which will probably last a few years or a decade. And it could be incredibly destructive... or more mildly destructive. 

But it is in these catabolic ebb periods that momentum gains for a pendulum swing towards the flow.

In the tale of the Chinese Farmer, there is a series of SEEMINGLY fortunate and unfortunate happenings. And with each successive happening, the positive event seems to turn into something negative. And the negative event seems to turn into something positive.

It starts with the farmer's horse running away. And the farmer goes to his neighbor and says "My horse ran away." And the neighbor says, "That's terrible!" And the farmer says "Maybe."

Then, the farmer's horse comes back home, along with several other wild stallions that the farmer comes to own. And he tells his neighbor. And the neighbor says, "That's wonderful!" And the farmer says "Maybe."

Then, the next day the farmer's son is riding one of the wild stallions, and it bucks him off. And the farmer's son breaks his leg. And he tells his neighbor. And the neighbor says, "That's terrible!" And the farmer says "Maybe."

Then, the next day the army comes to draft to farmer's son to go to war. But because his son's leg is broken, the army decides not to draft him. And he tells his neighbor. And the neighbor says, "That's wonderful!" And the farmer says, "Maybe."

If you want to preserve the current system for as long as possible, elect a Bernie Sanders progressive type. He has been the most conservative option out of anyone running in the past decade because he would make the current system a lot more livable and sustainable.

If you want to shake the system apart and introduce chaos and change, elect someone like Donald Trump. If his power is unchecked, his Narcissistic ways will erode the system away and in the chaos, the problems will become harder or impossible to ignore. And change will happen. And the Shadow of our current system will be laid bare for all to see and integrate.

We're getting the latter option. And it will suck in the short term. But if we're going to wake up and solve global problems like Climate Change, the current system has to become totally untenable. 

[Brittany]

I think Stage Green is losing influence.

Partially because many of the leaders of Stage Green, are shifting to Stage Blue.

Since the pandemic, a lot of people who were Stage Green, are moving more towards conservatism and right wing teachings.

I think the whole "get a vaccine or you can't enter this building" and "get a vaccine or we will fire you" terrified a lot of the Stage Green people.

Hippies and New Agers don't like vaccines.

So, they are now following Stage Blue people, thinking they are "rebelling against the system".

But by following Stage Blue people, they are going to become even more obedient to the system.

Stage Blue leaders have no interest in your freedom. They are just pretending like they care about freedom. And many Stage Green people are falling into the trap.

[Kid A]

3 hours ago, Brittany said:

Since the pandemic, a lot of people who were Stage Green, are moving more towards conservatism and right wing teachings.

I think the whole "get a vaccine or you can't enter this building" and "get a vaccine or we will fire you" terrified a lot of the Stage Green people.

Hippies and New Agers don't like vaccines.

 

I've never quite understood the idea that a virus created in a Chinese lab is somehow more «natural» and healthy than a vaccine...