Is Stage Green Currently Losing Influence?

[zazen]

Is this regression or alignment?

[Alex4]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

Is this regression or alignment?

Agreeing with Elon Musk on a topic does not mean you are aligned with him.

[aurum]

4 hours ago, zazen said:

Is this regression or alignment?

Neither.

It’s likely just Bernie just calling out the hypocrisy of right-wingers on this issue.

The right-wing talks so much about government waste and inefficiency, so why don’t we start with the military budget?

Crickets.

They have no interest in that because fundamentally the right-wing just cares more about the low-level dangers of survival and nationalism. Ideology consistency doesn’t matter, ideology is just a backwards rationalization to meet their survival needs.

Honestly, that some leftists don’t understand this makes them somewhat naive. Calling them out on their hypocrisy does essentially nothing when they never cared about ideological consistency in the first place.

The budget for the military will not be cut because it’s good for American survival.

Leftists need to get this. Overtime we can work towards winding down American hegemony, corruption in politics and higher development, but this is a tall order. And right now we will spending the next couple of years just reducing the backslide into full authoritarian rule and even greater levels of corruption.

Edited December 2 by aurum

[Leo Gura]

Neoliberal austerity? How original.

[Jodistrict]

Have people really rejected green, or did they reject corporate capitalism masquerading as green?  A large number of people see the corporate media talking heads as fake and disingenuous.  Their policies are tyrannical and nonsensical (e.g., personal pronouns).  Joe Rogan use to lean left.   Bernie Sander’s best asset was that he acted like a real human being and started to catch fire until he was shut down by the same broken machine that people soundly rejected in 2024.

[Starlight321]

2 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

Have people really rejected green, or did they reject corporate capitalism masquerading as green?  A large number of people see the corporate media talking heads as fake and disingenuous.  Their policies are tyrannical and nonsensical (e.g., personal pronouns).  Joe Rogan use to lean left.   Bernie Sander’s best asset was that he acted like a real human being and started to catch fire until he was shut down by the same broken machine that people soundly rejected in 2024.

This is only one aspekt of it but I think orange using green memes is part of it but also people are almost never on one solid stage and only parts of their personality is at stage green and it is likely to revert backwards during a crisis be it an inner or from the outside. Also people are less developed than they appear on the surface. It appears to be the case that many people below solid green ore even then some of them  critisize the system as long as it benefits them and if its benefits them more to use the capitalist machinery in order to maximize survival they tend to switch sides. It's like during the revolution of carist russia where they toppled the old corrupt regime just to replace it with a similiar structure according to their developement. So I would say that bernie's ideas were too advanced and dangerous for the middle and the power structures.

Here in germany for example we have a coalition of liberal left and green and right now our economy sucks and stage green tries to introduce ecological measures which make living more expensive and people with little money and the middle class notice it the most and that's one reason (but not the only one) for the unpopularity of such thing. At the same time the right side of the specrum does a good job fear mongering and jeopardizing our economy in order to sabotage the  administration.

Edited December 2 by Starlight321

[zazen]

5 hours ago, Alex4 said:

Agreeing with Elon Musk on a topic does not mean you are aligned with him.

Yeah, not aligned in total but in part on particular issues.

@aurum True, libertarianism can sucker people into thinking the size of government automatically means it’s bad. But no major nation can runs smoothly with a small state apparatus.

Perhaps it isn’t the size of government that’s the problem, as much as it is that they should be doing more of the right things rather than the wrong, and serving the interests of the many over the few.

Obviously things should also be streamlined and efficient, but that doesn’t mean eradication all together to let the market bring about efficiency through market forces - that just leads to big fish efficiently capturing little fish, it’s less capitalism and more domination.

[zazen]

@Jodistrict Speaking of machines - the media machine is broken for sure. A story:

 

This thanksgiving, thanks were given.

Conspiracising now, someone reign me in.

Edited December 2 by zazen

[aurum]

26 minutes ago, zazen said:

Perhaps it isn’t the size of government that’s the problem, as much as it is that they should be doing more of the right things rather than the wrong, and serving the interests of the many over the few.

Obviously things should also be streamlined and efficient, but that doesn’t mean eradication all together to let the market bring about efficiency through market forces - that just leads to big fish efficiently capturing little fish, it’s less capitalism and more domination.

Of course.

The problem is that Trump and his goons essentially have no interest in doing an honest analysis of what would be best in terms of government size or market efficiency. They don't care about that.

What they care about is mainly what will serve their own interests and their donors.

[zazen]

Bidens legacy despite any of the possible good he did will be overshadowed with him presiding over a plausible genocide he didn’t do anything to stop, nuclear brinkmanship with Russia - crossing red lines by green lighting ATACMS for Ukrainians to use before his departure, and giving blanket immunity to his son over a 11 year time period starting from when Ukraine shenanigans kicked off.

Biden’s in the fuck it phase of his term - with no care for optics even. Pardoning potential crimes in addition to actual ones sounds more like he’s visited a confessional. This just gives Donald Trump ammunition to be like “Look, see! The games rigged and they don’t care about you” to his base. It’s like a political suicide bomb strapped to the Democratic parties chest. The right will be milking this tit harder than Piers Morgan. 

 

Edited December 2 by zazen

[WritingHands]

worst stage on spiral dynamics

[Kid A]

13 hours ago, zazen said:

Bidens legacy despite any of the possible good he did will be overshadowed with him presiding over a plausible genocide he didn’t do anything to stop, nuclear brinkmanship with Russia - crossing red lines by green lighting ATACMS for Ukrainians to use before his departure, and giving blanket immunity to his son over a 11 year time period starting from when Ukraine shenanigans kicked off.

Biden’s in the fuck it phase of his term - with no care for optics even. Pardoning potential crimes in addition to actual ones sounds more like he’s visited a confessional. This just gives Donald Trump ammunition to be like “Look, see! The games rigged and they don’t care about you” to his base. It’s like a political suicide bomb strapped to the Democratic parties chest. The right will be milking this tit harder than Piers Morgan. 

Biden continues to be Trump’s biggest enabler. After the pardon of his son, the right's whataboutism will be completely invincible for God knows how many years.

Edited December 3 by Kid A

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Kid A said:

Biden continues to be Trump’s biggest enabler.

As if that changes anything - it doesnt. None of the people who voted for Trump gave any fuck about what Trump did, even when he pardoned all the people he did.

There is literally 0 point in playing by different standard compared to the other side - it game theoretically sets you up for failure. "I can use a rocket launcher in our next MMA match, you can only use your hands" "Fuck you, you did an illegal move by hitting me in the back of my head , you should be disqualified" - proceeds to use his rocket launcher.

I have no clue why people on this forum think that people who voted for Trump give any fuck about any standard. If they would, they wouldn't have voted for Trump.

[Kid A]

37 minutes ago, zurew said:

As if that changes anything - it doesnt. None of the people who voted for Trump gave any fuck about what Trump did, even when he pardoned all the people he did.

There is literally 0 point in playing by different standard compared to the other side - it game theoretically sets you up for failure. "I can use a rocket launcher in our next MMA match, you can only use your hands" "Fuck you, you did an illegal move by hitting me in the back of my head , you should be disqualified" - proceeds to use his rocket launcher.

I have no clue why people on this forum think that people who voted for Trump give any fuck about any standard. If they would, they wouldn't have voted for Trump.

Many who vote for Trump believe that he is the evil they need in the fight against an even greater evil. Biden has just contributed as much as possible to strengthening this narrative while simultaneously weakening the Democrats' major strengths in the fight against Trump, which are decency and integrity.

[zurew]

3 minutes ago, Kid A said:

Many who vote for Trump believe that he is the evil they need in the fight against an even greater evil. Biden has just contributed as much as possible to strengthening this narrative while simultaneously weakening the Democrats' major strengths in the fight against Trump, which are decency and integrity.

"Oh noo, the democrats have lost the ability to persuade people who believe all the democrats are satan worshippig , blood drinking criminals. If this pardon wouldn't have happened, all of these people could have been persuaded and saved! "

Edited December 3 by zurew

[Kid A]

17 minutes ago, zurew said:

"Oh noo, the democrats have lost the ability to persuade people who believe all the democrats are satan worshippig , blood drinking criminals. If this pardon wouldn't have happened, all of these people could have been persuaded and saved! "

For that group, it doesn't really matter. At least not in the short run… I'll give you that!

Edited December 3 by Kid A

[Bobby_2021]

Green fails to understand the conservative mind. Thereby they fail to understand themselves because they lack  empathy to understand conservatives, ironically. Hence they will lose. 

[Lyubov]

Well they just killed a CEO for a health insurance company that is consistently shady and dishonest with its business practices. So I would say no, stage green is going to come with a ton of force and disruption over the next 4 years. Expect consistent protests and organized violence by green against hyper capitalism and anything perceived by them to be part of right wing government corruption. To them they see the world falling into fascism and they are prepared to conduct guerrilla resistance  

Edited December 5 by Lyubov

[zazen]

On 02/12/2024 at 10:01 PM, zazen said:

Bidens legacy despite any of the possible good he did will be overshadowed with him presiding over a plausible genocide he didn’t do anything to stop, nuclear brinkmanship with Russia - crossing red lines by green lighting ATACMS for Ukrainians to use before his departure, and giving blanket immunity to his son over a 11 year time period starting from when Ukraine shenanigans kicked off.

Biden’s in the fuck it phase of his term - with no care for optics even. Pardoning potential crimes in addition to actual ones sounds more like he’s visited a confessional. This just gives Donald Trump ammunition to be like “Look, see! The games rigged and they don’t care about you” to his base. It’s like a political suicide bomb strapped to the Democratic parties chest. The right will be milking this tit harder than Piers Morgan.

Fuck it phase continued:
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-nightly/2024/12/04/bidens-next-pardons-00192689

More possible pardons - this time Liz Cheney, Anthony Fauci, and Adam Schiff.

“They (politicians) are public servants, who have made the public, servants” “Classists with no class”