Is Reincarnation True? Deep Existential Dive!

[Da77en]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I don't believe that will be worth our time 😄

Are you afraid of knowing that you generate your entire experience with your beliefs. I don’t really understand the kind of responses I’m getting from you.

Edited yesterday at 04:10 AM by Da77en

[Carl-Richard]

13 hours ago, Da77en said:

Are you afraid of knowing that you generate your entire experience with your beliefs. I don’t really understand the kind of responses I’m getting from you.

I'm more of the view that your experience generates your beliefs. You don't choose your beliefs, at least not easily or on a whim. But once you have your beliefs, they will also "affect" or be closely correlated with your experience. For example, back when I believed that other people carried "harmful spiritual energies" that could infect you as well as inanimate objects, that affected many things about my experience: how I perceived other people, my responses to other people, to objects they interacted with, how I interact with those objects, the emotional tone of those interactions, etc.

Edited 14 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Da77en]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'm more of the view that your experience generates your beliefs. You don't choose your beliefs, at least not easily or on a whim. But once there are beliefs, they will "affect" or be closely correlated with your experience. For example, back when I believed that other people carried "harmful spiritual energies" that could infect you as well as objects, that affected many things about my experience: how I perceived other people, my responses to other people, to objects they interacted with, how I interact with those objects, the emotional tone of those interactions, etc.

If your experience isn’t generated by your beliefs, what would you say is determining your experience? What do you think determines your state of being, emotions, behaviors, reality, etc. 

The usual materialist paradigm is that there exists an empirical physical reality that determines your experience or at least most of your experience.

The understanding of the nature of consciousness is that everything you experience is generated by your consciousness, it’s generated by you.

 

Edited yesterday at 04:35 AM by Da77en

[puporing]

Depends on how much you awaken in this lifetime, truly. You can choose to not "reincarnate" or to reincarnate for teaching/healing purposes for example. 

Edited yesterday at 05:03 AM by puporing

[Carl-Richard]

16 hours ago, Da77en said:

If your experience isn’t generated by your beliefs, what would you say is determining your experience? What do you think determines your state of being, emotions, behaviors, reality, etc. 

Other states of being, emotions, behaviors, reality, etc. I don't grant a special explanatory significance to beliefs. You simply have a set of phenomena, and some of them seem to correlate in a specific way, and that is how you derive explanations of said phenomena.

For example, if there is rain and you are outside subjected to the open sky, you can expect to get wet. If there is a lot of rain, you can expect a flood. If there is even more rain, you can expect a big flood. If there is a big flood, you can expect a regional emergency and property damage and maybe even loss of life. If there is a regional emergency, you can expect emergency vehicles and evacuation measures. If there is property damage or loss of life, you can expect a lot of grief, sorrow, distress, pain.

So how did we get from rain to pain? Through a tree of correlations or associations. The correlations are not perfect or absolute. There is a lot left to be explained. But they can still be made. Nevertheless, to me, beliefs are simply one node or one branch of that tree. It's true to say that beliefs can affect some elements of experience, just as rain can affect pain.

 

16 hours ago, Da77en said:

The usual materialist paradigm is that there exists an empirical physical reality that determines your experience or at least most of your experience.

It's more the case that it claims that this "physical reality" is not made out of the same stuff as experience (consciousness), and that somehow, this stuff creates the stuff of experience (which they have no idea how, but they think maybe it will be explained one day). I also want you to explain what you mean by "empirical", as it is classically a term associated with gaining knowledge from experience, which is kinda an oxymoron in this case. Do you mean "objective"?

 

17 hours ago, Da77en said:

The understanding of the nature of consciousness is that everything you experience is generated by your consciousness, it’s generated by you.

It's generated by You, the vast, non-local, transcendent but at the same time immanent Self (reality itself), not "you" as a tiny monkey eating leaves in the forest (or the modern version of that).

[Da77en]

@Carl-Richard I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that your entire experience is generated by your beliefs/definitions. That's all I can say, it's up to each individual to take the actions that are necessary in order to gain a direct understanding of this. I can give various practices that can give you more of a direct experience of this but I can't prove it to anyone. This goes for any other direct understanding of the nature of consciousness.

I use the term empirical because it's often used in scientific and materialist contexts. Here's the scientific definition I found: the gathering of data using evidence that is derived through experience or observation or by using calibrated scientific tools. It's a term scientists can often to equate scientific studies to objective truth, as opposed to the subjective experience of an individual. They may often use this term to in a sense discredit spirituality and other ways of getting directly in touch with truth.

When you say it's generated by You and not "you", that implies you are still compartmentalizing your consciousness. The "you" doesn't exists, it's an illusory limited identity. You are not your ego, and the ego is not some entity within your consciousness, it's just a neutral mask that You as Consciousness use in order to interact. People limit their identity to this mask and it creates an illusory separate limited identity, which constricts and limits their overall consciousness.

I know many people on this forum might be going with many of the ideas that Leo has talked about. I agree with a lot of the things Leo says but not everything. I know that Leo still doesn't buy the idea that beliefs have the effect of generating your entire experience but I can guarantee you that they do. No one has to agree with anything, I'm just giving my direct experiential knowing.

Consciousness is fundamentally automatic, so it's not like it's something you have to manually do. Your experience is automatically generated based upon what you are believing or defining as true with your physical personality construct. The actions that you take are designed so that you can guide the automatic flow of your consciousness in the direction that you prefer. You are constantly changing your beliefs/definitions every moment, its automatic, actions guide this process in whatever direction you take action in.

Edited 8 hours ago by Da77en

[Schizophonia]

17 hours ago, puporing said:

Depends on how much you awaken in this lifetime, truly. You can choose to not "reincarnate" or to reincarnate for teaching/healing purposes for example. 

There is no purpose from an absolute pov.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Da77en said:

@Carl-Richard I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that your entire experience is generated by your beliefs/definitions. That's all I can say, it's up to each individual to take the actions that are necessary in order to gain a direct understanding of this. I can give various practices that can give you more of a direct experience of this but I can't prove it to anyone. This goes for any other direct understanding of the nature of consciousness.

I use the term empirical because it's often used in scientific and materialist contexts. Here's the scientific definition I found: the gathering of data using evidence that is derived through experience or observation or by using calibrated scientific tools. It's a term scientists can often to equate scientific studies to objective truth, as opposed to the subjective experience of an individual. They may often use this term to in a sense discredit spirituality and other ways of getting directly in touch with truth.

When you say it's generated by You and not "you", that implies you are still compartmentalizing your consciousness. The "you" doesn't exists, it's an illusory limited identity. You are not your ego, and the ego is not some entity within your consciousness, it's just a neutral mask that You as Consciousness use in order to interact. People limit their identity to this mask and it creates an illusory separate limited identity, which constricts and limits their overall consciousness.

I know many people on this forum might be going with many of the ideas that Leo has talked about. I agree with a lot of the things Leo says but not everything. I know that Leo still doesn't buy the idea that beliefs have the effect of generating your entire experience but I can guarantee you that they do. No one has to agree with anything, I'm just giving my direct experiential knowing.

Consciousness is fundamentally automatic, so it's not like it's something you have to manually do. Your experience is automatically generated based upon what you are believing or defining as true with your physical personality construct. The actions that you take are designed so that you can guide the automatic flow of your consciousness in the direction that you prefer. You are constantly changing your beliefs/definitions every moment, its automatic, actions guide this process in whatever direction you take action in.

I don't know how you define these things, but for me and arguably most people, beliefs and definitions are very surface-level things. And reality goes far deeper than those things. 

It doesn't matter what you believe: you cannot fly. It doesn't matter what you believe: you cannot see through walls (unless you are a special individual 😉). You cannot stop seeing Redness if there is Redness in an object. You cannot breathe in while breathing out. You cannot think deeply about a subject while surfing a wave.

There are various constraints in reality where beliefs have little power. Beliefs deal more with what power you give these constraints, how they reverberate in your mind, what attention you give them; subtle things like that. And like I said earlier, these more hard constraints ultimately define what you believe and again reinforce the effect that your beliefs have on them.

Sure, once you loosen some belief pattern, maybe you will open yourself to some dimension you hadn't conceived of before (e.g. astral realms, spiritual beings, ghosts), but even then, the existing hard constraints will definitely keep having an effect on you. There is no getting around having to wake up in the morning, eat food, breathe with your lungs, walk with your legs (if you're privileged to have them).

Whether or not you want to call these constraints "physical reality" or "objective empirical reality" is totally up to you, but that doesn't change anything about the constraints. Ironically, those are just certain kinds of beliefs about the constraints.

Edited 5 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Da77en]

@Carl-Richard I see what you mean. With sufficient expansion of your consciousness you can get to a point where you don’t have so many limitations and constraints. It’s just that as a collective we are still working on very basic aspects of life like abundance, survival, wellness, etc. As a collective we are extremely low level when it comes to our level of consciousness and that’s why you don’t see many people breaking free from constraints. Some people do though, there are cases where people have seemingly super human abilities and don’t have the same limitations as the average person. The average person definitely doesn’t understand the nature of beliefs and that’s one of the reasons we are so extremely limited collectively. The overall collective is very ignorant to the nature of consciousness.

It’s not that you absolutely can’t get to a point where you can fly or see through walls, it’s just not as relevant compared to basic things like expanding your consciousness to bring yourself into higher levels of well-being.

This Earth reality is extremely limited because people choose to be fear based. If we as a collective sufficiently expanded our consciousnesses we would see a lot more “‘miracles” and things like that. The idea of someone like Jesus being able to perform miracles is 100% possible from my understanding of consciousness, you just need a high enough level of consciousness in order to do it, as a collective we aren't very close to those levels.

I'm encouraging people to use these understandings so they can do simple things like let go of their fear, manifest the life they prefer, have a higher level of wellbeing. It's not as relevent to get into drastically transcending the current self-imposed limitations that are common on Earth, until we fulfill the basics, even though such things are possible.

Edited 4 hours ago by Da77en

[Joshe]

I found a similar line of inquiry useful. On both sides of consciousness, there is nothing, yet here you are. It’s intuitive to me that if I arose from nothing and will go back to it, I would only arise from nothing again, just as I already have. No thing can exist outside of consciousness, including death and non-existence.