An Introduction to “Ego Development Theory” by Susanne Cook-Greuter (EDT Summary)

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Well, let me then re-iterate, I'm not the one lumping things together. I'm talking about what I think the model is doing, trying to interpret what it is saying on its own terms (as far as that is possible), and that requires reading what the author said. And like, if you want to talk about your own understanding of reality, don't call it "Susanne Cook-Greuter's Ego Development Theory", if you get what I'm saying 😆

Your doubt doesn't make sense.

Just ask yourself, If stages of development exist at all, what must the highest stages look like? Obviously it must include Awakening, ego-transcendence, God-realization, and construct-awareness in some capacity. We can argue over degree, but these elements are essential for any serious mind in its quest to make sense of reality.

There are stages beyond Unitive, but going through Unitive is essential if you are aiming high.

Edited Friday at 09:18 PM by Leo Gura

[Majed]

@Leo Gura something i noticed is that the more you do consciousness work. the more you start tapping into a new reality, a different one than most people experience. it's like you're accessing a new dimension.

[OmniNaut]

So much "intellectuals" here without any real life experience, all their world building is done from their desk chair behind the screen and books. Travel, visit 3rd world/developing countries, and you will see the merit of experience and testing theories. These models do hold up in real life. Yes, there are limitations and some flaws. Flaws in the models and flaws in interpretations. 

You people are falling into the same trap as the TS was accusing Cook-Greuter of. Model based on theory, so your answer is, fighting theory with theory. 

Some people like to throw in difficult and strong philosophical terms. That shows even more for me the lack of real world experience.

For me it's the equivalent of the image of intellectuals sitting in the big arm chairs smoking pipes. Getting high of their own intellectualism that's not grounded in anything anymore.

Intellectuals debating different intellectual approaches, is the same as two religions discussing each others flaws, in the end they don't see there own epistemic flaws.

Especially for the young people here. TEST your thoughts and ideas in the real world.
 

Edited Friday at 09:32 PM by OmniNaut

[Nilsi]

1 minute ago, OmniNaut said:

So much "intellectuals" here without any real life experience, all their world building is done from their desk chair behind the screen and books. Travel, visit 3rd world/developing countries, and you will see the merit of experience and testing theories. These models do hold up in real life. Yes, there are limitations and some flaws. Flaws in the models and flaws in interpretations. 

You people are falling into the same trap as the TS was accusing Cook-Greuter of. Model based on theory, so your answer is, fighting theory with theory. 
Some people like to throw in difficult and strong philosophical terms.

For me it's the equivalent of the image of intellectuals sitting in the big arm chairs smoking pipes. Getting high of their own intellectualism that's not grounded in anything anymore.

Intellectuals debating different intellectual approaches, is the same as two religions discussing each others flaws, in the end they don't see there own epistemic flaws.

Especially for the young people here. TEST your thoughts and ideas in the real world.
 

Ok boomer.

[OmniNaut]

4 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Ok boomer.

Did I trigger something in you? Are you taking it to personal maybe?

So if being a gen z/millennial means knowing the world from your desk chair, I'm proud to be a boomer.

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, OmniNaut said:

TEST your thoughts and ideas in the real world.

Yes, of course this is crucial.

Go to Zimbabwe and see how many Construct-Aware people you meet.

Edited Friday at 09:49 PM by Leo Gura

[zurew]

17 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Ok boomer.

The shadow is coming out 

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura something i noticed is that the more you do consciousness work. the more you start tapping into a new reality, a different one than most people experience. it's like you're accessing a new dimension.

Yup

[zurew]

8 minutes ago, OmniNaut said:

So if being a gen z/millennial means knowing the world from your desk chair, I'm proud to be a boomer.

Most people here could benefit from more reading (including me).

And some of the claims that are made are non-empirical, so they cant be tested.

[Carl-Richard]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your doubt doesn't make sense.

Just ask yourself, If stages of development exist at all, what must the highest stages look like? Obviously it must include Awakening, ego-transcendence, God-realization, and construct-awareness in some capacity. We can argue over degree, but these elements are essential for any serious mind in its quest to make sense of reality.

The highest levels also include eating food and breathing air. But these also occur at lower stages. Same with awakening.

[Nilsi]

5 minutes ago, zurew said:

The shadow is coming out 

Nice meme.

No one puts their thoughts to the test like I do. I literally risk my life for this shit, so don’t fucking @ me.

[zurew]

Just now, Nilsi said:

No one puts their thoughts to the test like I do. I literally risk my life for this shit, so don’t fucking @ me.

Relax , it wasnt serious.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The highest levels also include eating food and breathing air. But these also occur at lower stages. Same with awakening.

I expect better thinking from you.

Edited Friday at 10:00 PM by Leo Gura

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Nice meme.

No one puts their thoughts to the test like I do. I literally risk my life for this shit, so don’t fucking @ me.

[Carl-Richard]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I expect better thinking from you.

It's a shame I was only parroting Wilber then 😂

Edited Friday at 10:14 PM by Carl-Richard

[Eph75]

 

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just ask yourself, If stages of development exist at all, what must the highest stages look like? Obviously it must include Awakening, ego-transcendence, God-realization, and construct-awareness in some capacity. We can argue over degree, but these elements are essential for any serious mind in its quest to make sense of reality.

Yes and...

These stages being the development of the complexity of sense making that allows for holding on to increasing  complexity and taking in increasing complex compositions with increasing number variables - and multiple and contradictory perspectives. 

Awakening etc isn't on the same axis/scale, it's rather about the point of reference from which things are being observed. 

You can shift that point of reference independently from the level of complexity by which you make sense of what you observe. 

The complexity goes into the sense making within the "illusion", while the point of reference shifts how deep into or out of the "illusion" you observe what's there. 

Thus, you can be an awakened "fool", no need for cognitive complexity at all.

Pursuing cognitive developmental stages, as many here will have first hand experience of, likely and quite possibly will intersect with developing shifts in that point of reference as well.

Edited Friday at 10:07 PM by Eph75

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's a shame I was only parroting Wilber then 😂

But Wilber is the lord of these stage models. His own model has something like Unitive at the top.

Don Beck even chastized Wilber for including awakening in his model.

You are more parroting Beck than Wilber. Beck, who called Trump good for America and Wilber a stage Red psychopath

Edited Friday at 10:31 PM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

Look at it this way:

Cook-Grueter's model tells you that the first 4 stages are about building up the ego and the next 4 stages are about deconstructing the ego.

So what happens at the end of 4 stages of ego deconstruction? Where does that lead?

[Oeaohoo]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

I suspect that you, like Sloterdijk, nonetheless harbor a Parmenidean Urinstinkt that inclines you to reject postmodernism, by which I mean the dynamic, self-amplifying chaos of positive feedback loops.

I reject it in principle. In practice, it is just the world we live in, and postmodern philosophy is an accurate assessment of that world — though Nietzsche had already said most of it.

Trite as it might be to quote Tolkien: “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

a Heraclitean cosmos of flux and strife that ruthlessly denies the comforting illusion of unity, such as that provided by tradition and mythology.

I wonder how much these really contradict each other…

[Oeaohoo]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Look at it this way:

Cook-Grueter's model tells you that the first 4 stages are about building up the ego and the next 4 stages are about deconstructing the ego.

So what happens at the end of 4 stages of ego deconstruction? Where does that lead?

I could tell you but I’d have to kill you! 

Isn’t this outside of the domain of ego-development?

Edited Friday at 11:18 PM by Oeaohoo