Natural order vs artificial hierarchy

[Kuba Powiertowski]

The entire structure of the ego as a separate entity is based on the filament of artificial hierarchy - a completely contrary to nature, evaluation-comparative system. I will explain why hierarchy has nothing to do with natural order. Let's take, for example, the work of human hands - the combustion engine. The operation of the engine is based on a certain order that is the result of a logical process and each element of this process is equally important and plays its role. It has nothing to do with the hierarchy according to the ego, which makes a completely abstract valuation, assessment and comparison between the elements of existence. Without a hierarchy understood in this way, the structure of the ego collapses very quickly. I recommend trying it.

[Reciprocality]

Are there not parts in a combustion engine which are less essential than others? Does not some parts of the combustion itself emerge from other more homogenous or invariant parts that could produce many other emergent effects besides combustion?

Wouldn't you prefer to lose 2 fingers instead of 3? 1 hand instead of 2?

Weren't every word you expressed here distilled into the finest essence of things from thousands of years of linguistic evolution, implying hierarchy in the order of natural language? Natural order?

[Reciprocality]

@Kuba Powiertowski Which hierarchy is truly artificial? 

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Reciprocality

Ok, let's take a 4-stroke internal combustion engine. Which part is less important in its construction: Cylinders? Pistons? Piston rings? Valves, bearings or maybe the crankshaft controlling the valve opening sequence? Or maybe the cooling system or the alternator charging the battery which supplies current to the coil so that it gives the ignition spark?

The above does not mean that physical processes are not exposed to failures, defects, and diseases. And of course, using logical reasoning, it is better to drive on 4 working cylinders than on 2 and it is better to lose an arm than a head.

Fuck again, either we pretend not to understand what we are talking about or we really do not understand. In this case, sorry, forgive me for being slightly irritated.

The artificial hierarchy that I want to talk about here is nothing more than the illusion of the ego's measurement, division, evaluation, comparison, subjective individual, unrepeatable qualities, used by the ego to position itself constantly, create comfortable narratives for it, to justify its actions or worldview. A good example of such artificial hierarchies are: the culturally diverse systems of values, moral assessments, ethical commands and prohibitions, etc. How constantly, all the time, subconsciously you position yourself in relation to others, you compare yourself to others using a whole range of assessments pulled out of a hat. Generally, this is the essence of what is called Maya in Sanskrit - the illusion of the ego's measurement, the artificial division of the world according to egoistic conditioning.

That's all I meant.

If we are to start a discussion now about what "artificial" means, then thank you, but I'm not interested.

And no offense - I'm having a hard time.

Peace Brother

[Reciprocality]

@Kuba Powiertowski It is understandable to be irritated when you don't believe your point have been received by those who respond to your post.

 

2 hours ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

The artificial hierarchy that I want to talk about here is nothing more than the illusion of the ego's measurement, division, evaluation, comparison, subjective individual, unrepeatable qualities, used by the ego to position itself constantly, create comfortable narratives for it, to justify its actions or worldview. A good example of such artificial hierarchies are: the culturally diverse systems of values, moral assessments, ethical commands and prohibitions, etc. How constantly, all the time, subconsciously you position yourself in relation to others, you compare yourself to others using a whole range of assessments pulled out of a hat. Generally, this is the essence of what is called Maya in Sanskrit - the illusion of the ego's measurement, the artificial division of the world according to egoistic conditioning.

2 hours ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

If we are to start a discussion now about what "artificial" means, then thank you, but I'm not interested.

I have no qualms with the premise that humans position themselves and evaluate and compare themselves with others in all sorts of ways, what I am questioning is what this implies about us, why it happens and whether it could fail to happen. I am thereby questioning how artificial human posturing and comparison really is, by hinting at the natural nature of some hierarchies such as the one that produces the words that are available to us at this moment.

There are many kinds of ways the ego could have been conditioned, and it were conditioned the way it were for analogous reasons to why others ego were conditioned the way their were, you appear to claim that these reasons are artificial without articulating the relationship between the concept of artificiality and these reasons/behaviours.

I am not asking for more information about hierarchies, but about the justification for the status of some being artificial, from which justification I would be better suited to evaluate whether the ego is properly separated.

I would also question how the ego could be a separated entity if the hierarchy on which it is based is conditioned on comparison between people, how separate is it if the concepts that compares it with others unifies them under one category?

[Reciprocality]

What if we investigate where the concepts and categories that compare people come from? Are they intelligible for others or are they entirely personal to us?

If these concepts are intelligible for others then they are universals, and if they are universal how could they be artificial?

Edit: if developmental processes leads to the concepts we possess and we possess the same concepts then this implies that we went through the same developmental processes. 

Edited Thursday at 01:56 PM by Reciprocality

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Reciprocality

Dear Friend, You assume that you are in a place and time that evolved in its entirety, along with people, from the laws of nature learned here. Well, I don't think so. If you look at this simulation long enough, as you develop self-awareness here, you begin to notice the black swans of truth left here (I assume intentionally), hidden in theories that have at most questionable support in the evidence you observe. You find tiny, ajar skylights through which you can briefly stick your head outside. You experience déjà vu and ordinary glitches in the matrix more and more often. You observe how people replace one myth with another, how the Big Bang is a materialistic substitute for the biblical genesis after throwing out the old man with the beard, you find ancient, yet constantly encountered species of animals that "forgot" to evolve despite being subjected to thousands of different environmental pressures, traces of intermediate fossil forms, fossils, the existence of which Darwin himself required to validate his theory, there are so very little that you have to look for them with a candle. And suddenly someone discovers the mathematical rules governing complex information systems, the fact that they exist in sets, in certain classes of complexity, and only within them do variations occur. Just as hardware does not generate software, and the chance that such hardware will arise in any random or stochastic process of interactions of basic particles of so-called matter is zero, so human DNA, which is orders of magnitude more complex hardware, did not arise in such a way, and software needs an intelligent programmer. The James Webb telescope shows a Universe that does not fit the Big Bang theory, the Great Bell Test experimentally confirms beyond any doubt that local realism does not exist, that the Universe you observe is not locally real.

If you dive deep into these intellectual discoveries and add the intuitive ones that throw you into parallel hyperrealistic dimensions completely different from where you observe, you start to remember how it all works, there is no option - you are on the last straight to get out of this maze, although this straight may be still fucking long.

From this perspective, I emphasize, my perspective - maybe I am hallucinating and developing a brain tumor - I don't know - I see that the ego is not something that acquires some conditioning. The ego is simply this conditioning, in the earthly case, exceptionally refined, designed by some master of deception. Yes, all this comes from one team of director, scriptwriter, set designer, make-up artist, etc. By the way, human languages are also described by the theory of complex information systems. Nothing here evolved from a watermelon.

Nevertheless, this devilish hallucination, enchanted in the circles of time, gives you the impression of some special place of man on this planet. Namely, if you got rid of insects and microbes, life on Earth would die out in a few months. If you get rid of man - no one here will especially cry for us. Here is an example - we in our hierarchy in relation to the planet and we, in the hierarchy of our planet in relation to it. As the only beings here, we do everything in complete opposition to natural laws as if we were completely alien here. Very far from Tao. Having a sense of illusory control, we experience here the complete opposite of what we really are.

As Sauron said in the Rings of Power: sometimes you descend into Darkness to find the Light within yourself. Darkness is an inherent feature of the dual manifestation of reality at every level. Nevertheless, here in this dimension pretending to be The Light - The Darkness has mastered to perfection.

Everyone has to discover this for themselves at some point.
Finally, a joke in the form of graffiti on some wall, I think in Copenhagen:
"God is dead" - F. Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead" - God

Maybe fake hierarchy fits better...