Nothing to get

[creativepursuit]

4 minutes ago, Da77en said:

Are you saying that Consciousness itself is an illusion?

No, my friend, There's Consciousness (God/Supreme/Witness/Rope) and there's reflected consciousness (self/ego/snake), the one who is trying to get liberated. The reflected consciousness is the snake, which is not there at all, its only the rope all the time. the snake is only an appearance. its an illusion, after all. No amount of water in the mirage can quench your thirst because there was never any water.

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Enlightenment is not realizing that you are an illusion, or that this is complete, or anything else, it is opening yourself to the total reality of what you are, which is veiled by the apparent movement of relative reality, the karma. It is an action that requires stopping the movement of the mind and opening the barrier of the heart

Yes, this hits home for me.

The first approach reflects projecting one's personal ideas and illusions onto the world, mistaking them for the truth.

The second recognizes everything as an integral and incomparable reflection of oneself, a unified pristine reality unvisited by illusions.

[Da77en]

3 minutes ago, creativepursuit said:

No, my friend, There's Consciousness (God/Supreme/Witness/Rope) and there's reflected consciousness (self/ego/snake), the one who is trying to get liberated. The reflected consciousness is the snake, which is not there at all, its only the rope all the time. the snake is only an appearance. its an illusion, after all. No amount of water in the mirage can quench your thirst because there was never any water.

Thanks for clarifying. Many people could interpret your last post as saying that the Self doesn't exist, I suggest being more specific. I've seen people on this forum talking about Consciousness itself being an illusion and using no-self to dissociate from consciousness itself.

Edited 4 hours ago by Da77en

[Yimpa]

11 minutes ago, Da77en said:

@Yimpa I would argue that it's not beyond human comprehension.

Right, because it is also human!

[creativepursuit]

2 minutes ago, Da77en said:

Self doesn't exist

Self = Consciousness (The existence)
self = ego/snake/doesn't exist); it only appears to exist as real.
 

[James123]

1 minute ago, creativepursuit said:

Self = Consciousness (The existence)
self = ego/snake/doesn't exist); it only appears to exist as real.
 

Self=Existence, doesn't exist. It only appears to exist as real. 

[Da77en]

Just now, James123 said:

Self=Existence, doesn't exist. It only appears to exist as real. 

Can you be more specific?

[James123]

Just now, Da77en said:

Can you be more specific?

Enlightenment is simply Being where You already are. 

Nothing has never happened. Now is before so called birth. Only so called attachment with thoughts creates the existence. Why existence is not there when you are in deep sleep? Because there is no thoughts or attachment there, only Being. 

[Da77en]

9 minutes ago, James123 said:

Enlightenment is simply Being where You already are. 

Nothing has never happened. Now is before so called birth. Only so called attachment with thoughts creates the existence. Why existence is not there when you are in deep sleep? Because there is no thoughts or attachment there, only Being. 

Realization of your Self, I agree is Being where you are. That's why meditation is very effective for the realization of no-self. I don't really like the term no-self, I would just call it dis-identification from the illusory separate self.

I don't agree on the Self or Consciousness being an illusion. You = Consciousness, Being = Consciousness, Existence = Consciousness.

Non-Duality = Consciousness.

Edited 4 hours ago by Da77en

[James123]

Just now, Da77en said:

Realization of your Self, I agree is Being where You are. That's why meditation is very effective for this realization of no-self.

Actually, not no self, no existence is better to say.

1 minute ago, Da77en said:

I don't agree on the Self or Consciousness being an illusion.

It is a drop in the ocean. 

[creativepursuit]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

Why existence is not there when you are in deep sleep

Yes, there are no thoughts and attachments in deep sleep, but that doesn't mean there's no experience, it's the experience of absence/void.

[James123]

Just now, creativepursuit said:

Yes, there are no thoughts and attachments in deep sleep, but that doesn't mean there's no experience, it's the experience of absence/void.

Who is the experiencer in deep sleep? 

[creativepursuit]

Just now, James123 said:

Who is the experiencer in deep sleep? 

Witness/Consciousness/Existence/Self/God

[Da77en]

@James123 Even in deep sleep there is still consciousness. There's no such thing as actually being unconscious, consciousness is too fundamental, that's why death is an illusion. Consciousness has no where to go, it's the fundamental structure of reality itself.

Edited 4 hours ago by Da77en

[James123]

7 minutes ago, Da77en said:

@James123 Even in deep sleep there is still consciousness. There's no such thing as actually being unconscious, consciousness is too fundamental, that's why death is an illusion. Consciousness has no where to go, it's the fundamental structure of reality itself.

In deep sleep are you aware of these thoughts? Is there any you there?

10 minutes ago, creativepursuit said:

Witness/Consciousness/Existence/Self/God

How do you know?

[Da77en]

@James123 You don't need thoughts in order to be conscious. When I am in deep sleep I am aware that consciousness is eternal, yes. If you expand sufficiently there will be higher levels of consciousness even in deep sleep.

I can repeat a mantra or question throughout the entire nights sleep.

Edited 4 hours ago by Da77en

[creativepursuit]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

How do you know?

Because when I wake up, I am aware that I slept for 6 hours and didn't die?

[James123]

2 minutes ago, Da77en said:

@James123 You don't need thoughts in order to be conscious. When I am in deep sleep I am aware that consciousness is eternal, yes. If you expand sufficiently there will be higher levels of consciousness even in deep sleep.

You haven't done any long term sitting like 6-7 hours a day, or meditation retreats for months right? In order to get what I am saying, you must drop and enter so called no mind state for days. Higher lover consciousness are just an illusion. There is no you therefore no consciousness. 

[James123]

Just now, creativepursuit said:

Because when I wake up, I am aware that I slept for 6 hours and didn't die?

During the deep sleep I am saying, is there any YOU there? While in deep sleep?

[Da77en]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

You haven't done any long term sitting like 6-7 hours a day, or meditation retreats for months right? In order to get what I am saying, you must drop and enter so called no mind state for days. Higher lover consciousness are just an illusion. There is no you therefore no consciousness. 

I don't do the strong determination sitting but I do meditate and can meditate for weeks straight. When it comes to your idea of no consciousness, I don't agree. We are probably just defining things very differently.

Edited 4 hours ago by Da77en