Nothing to get

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

Enlightenment is not realizing that you are an illusion, or that this is complete, or anything else, it is opening yourself to the total reality of who you are, which is veiled by the apparent movement of relative reality, the karma. It is an action that requires stopping the movement of the mind and opening the barrier of the heart

Is the self not an illusion?

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

Is the self not an illusion?

What means illusion? The self is the self, illusion is a concept inside the self. The self is an structure made of control, fear, identification, and many other things. Why it's an illusion, or a dream? That is just confusion. 

[Sugarcoat]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What means illusion? The self is the self, illusion is a concept inside the self. The self is a structure made of control, fear, identification, and many other things. Why it's an illusion, or a dream? That is just confusion. 

Illusion meaning not real, doesn’t actually exist. I don’t know if it is, just asking you. OP says it is. 

[Hojo]

@Sugarcoat

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

How can an illusion be so strong? Why is it so difficult to “see” the truth?

Because you are mistaking it for something other than you. Its the bubble outline of your reality.

[Sugarcoat]

4 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Sugarcoat

Because you are mistaking it for something other than you. It’s the bubble outline of your reality.

What am I mistaking for something other than me? 

[Hojo]

@Sugarcoat The qualia of the giant bubble in front of you.

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Sugarcoat The qualia of the giant bubble in front of you.

So I’m mistaking that for something else than me? You’re saying it is me

[Breakingthewall]

42 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Illusion meaning not real, doesn’t actually exist. I don’t know if it is, just asking you. OP says it is. 

49 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

 

 Who said that the self isn't real? The self?....all that is a mental mess imo. Enlightenment is being open to the absolute nature of reality not knowing things. Any knowledge happen in the relative perspective . Let's say that the self is relative, not absolute . Relative is the same than false? I don't think so 

Edited 5 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

 Who said that the self isn't real? The self?....all that is a mental mess imo. Enlightenment is being open to the absolute nature of reality not knowing things. Any knowledge happen in the relative perspective 

OP said the self is illusion which I interpret as not real. But I’m with you there with your definition of enlightenment . It’s still mental for me though I have yet to actually “see” it

[Da77en]

I understand what is being said when it comes to these kinds of ideas such as, there's nothing to get, obtain, realize, etc. When it comes to dis-identification with the illusory, separate self, these kinds of things might be said by some Non-Dual teachers, although, it can be unnecessarily confusing in my opinion. It's also important to specify that these particular pointers are specifically targeting letting go of the illusory limited identity, not the entirety of the expanding of your consciousness.

I want to remind everyone that once you start truly expanding your consciousness and getting in alignment with your true nature, it's not some small thing, it's a huge explosion of love, joy, ecstasy, knowing, etc. After such peaks you usually can't maintain such states but your job is to keep taking action in that direction and expanding your consciousness, and eventually you can maintain such states more and more.

This is a continuous process and there isn't necessarily any end point to the expansion of your consciousness. Non-Duality realizations aren't the end to enlightenment and it's important to understand the context of what many of these non-dual insights are pointing to so you don't use them as excuses to not take action.

Some of you are talking about no-self and seem to be using it to disassociate for consciousness itself. No-self doesn't mean no-consciousness, the self with a capital S is consciousness. No-self is just the realization that you can't pinpoint the Self to any particular form because it is both formless and all forms, it doesn't mean that the Self doesn't exist. Consciousness is Self. You are consciousness, not some limited mind, body, physical personality construct.

The mind, body, physical personality construct is how you focus your consciousness into a physical reality experience but it isn't your fundamental self, just a mechanism of your consciousness.

Edited 5 hours ago by Da77en

[Hojo]

@Sugarcoat Its taking place inside of your brain not outside of your brain.

[Sugarcoat]

6 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Sugarcoat Its taking place inside of your brain not outside of your brain.

ok

[Sugarcoat]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Let's say that the self is relative, not absolute . Relative is the same than false? I don't think so 

This is what I’m conflicted about. I don’t know really what the self is, if it’s real or not, illusory or not etc. 

[creativepursuit]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

s the self not an illusion?

The self is an illusion and is one of the last and highest spiritual teachings (like non-duality). The ancient sages in India used to reject disciples (princes and kings at that time) and ask them to spend years purifying their minds through meditation, devotion, karma, etc. before they considered them ready for the last teachings. 

[Da77en]

6 minutes ago, creativepursuit said:

The self is an illusion and is one of the last and highest spiritual teachings (like non-duality). The ancient sages in India used to reject disciples (princes and kings at that time) and ask them to spend years purifying their minds through meditation, devotion, karma, etc. before they considered them ready for the last teachings. 

Can you explain what you mean by saying the self is an illusion. Are you saying that Consciousness itself is an illusion?

The importance of having a direct understanding of what you are saying on this forum is under stressed from my perspective. Anyone can parrot certain talking points but it's crucial for them to actually be explained if we want to fully support the evolution of the individuals on this forum.

Edited 4 hours ago by Da77en

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

Is the self not an illusion?

The self is both an illusion and God. It’s paradoxical and beyond human comprehension, hence why science (for example) cannot grasp it.

[Sugarcoat]

7 minutes ago, creativepursuit said:

The self is an illusion and is one of the last and highest spiritual teachings (like non-duality). The ancient sages in India used to reject disciples (princes and kings at that time) and ask them to spend years purifying their minds through meditation, devotion, karma, etc. before they considered them ready for the last teachings. 

Ok. I’m still a bit conflicted regarding this.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

"Life is not about finding yourself, or not about finding anything. It's about creating yourself" - Bob Dylan.

That's why you're in this show. To create it. Ok, to co-create it. The more selflessly you do that, more spontaneously, the more you see it's about the show not about you the more fun you have. 

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

The self is both an illusion and God. It’s paradoxical and beyond human comprehension, hence why science (for example) cannot grasp it.

I think id agree

[Da77en]

@Yimpa I would argue that it's not beyond human comprehension.