Make America Healthy Again is a joke.

[ryandesreu]

On 11/17/2024 at 10:00 AM, Recursoinominado said:

I am part of Carnivore diet groups on FB.

They LOVE Trump and RFK because "real men eat steaks", they love this "macho fascist vibe".

Then you see this photo and you cannot do anything but laugh loudly.

The entire group is spinning wheels trying to explain what is clear in front of them: corruption.

Kennedy looks like he's already experiencing symptoms of E coli.

[Joshe]

7 hours ago, What Am I said:

Given the metrics you're using to judge him, I guess it's not inconceivable to come to the conclusion that he's grifting about health. I don't agree, but I can see how you got there.

My read is based on very few data points. What data do you use to assess him? When sizing someone up, you can’t just look at their physical appearance and what they say, at least not with most people. You can do that with Bernie Sanders because he has integrity.

The biggest strike against him(based on very limited data) is he’s a crackpot. If he just believed in science like normal people, I might have high hopes for him doing good things.

Again, I haven’t jumped to final conclusions about him because I don’t have enough info, but from the little I have, if I had to make a call about him right now, I’d have to bet on him being a high functioning narcissist seeking all the things those types seek. I’m not gonna give someone who aligned with Trump the benefit of the doubt, especially when he’s a crackpot.

To be clear, I’m not really saying anything bad about him, just what I think is likely, and even that wouldn’t make him a bad guy if he has good intentions. Also, I shouldn’t have used the word grifter. It’s probably more likely he’s just a delusional narcissist who wants recognition, but I guess we’ll find out the truth soon enough.

Edited November 24 by Joshe

[What Am I]

32 minutes ago, Joshe said:

To be clear, I’m not really saying anything bad about him, just what I think is likely, and even that wouldn’t make him a bad guy if he has good intentions. Also, I shouldn’t have used the word grifter. It’s probably more likely he’s just a delusional narcissist who wants recognition, but I guess we’ll find out the truth soon enough.

I find this to be likely closer to accurate. Your original designation as grifter, which in all fairness you've retracted, was assigning malice and/or opportunism to his motives, which seemed a bit much to me.

32 minutes ago, Joshe said:

My read is based on very few data points. What data do you use to assess him? When sizing someone up, you can’t just look at their physical appearance and what they say, at least not with most people.

For my limited analysis, I am mostly observing both how he treats his own body and what he has said. When listening to his enthusiasm for health, it reminds me of myself and others who become obsessed with the search for healthier choices (proper bodyweight, diet, exercise, etc.). So I feel I've identified him as a certain type of individual. I guess you could call it a healthnut. Based on the same data points you've seen, I feel his intentions are likely pure, at least in so far as I believe he genuinely wants citizens of the US to be healthy.

Now, whether his ideas are actually effective and good for the country is certainly up for debate. I'm pretty sure you would say his ideas will be ineffective, as they can be considered alternative and not in line with mainstream scientific thinking around health. Or, as you put it, he's a crackpot. And that's perfectly fine if you think that, because why on earth would you think otherwise? I can understand and empathize with your position.

32 minutes ago, Joshe said:

If he just believed in science like normal people, I might have high hopes for him doing good things.

To me, the concept of "believe in science" treats it as a monolith and even gives it religious overtones. I don't want to rehash the same tired argument that's occurred a million times, but suffice it to say, I don't think science should be viewed like that. It brings excessive amounts of human psychology into something that holds the ideal of being objective.

Really though, we're probably just spinning our wheels in trying to prejudge what'll happen. As you said, we'll just have to wait and see how it all unfolds.

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, What Am I said:

To me, the concept of "believe in science" treats it as a monolith and even gives it religious overtones. I don't want to rehash the same tired argument that's occurred a million times, but suffice it to say, I don't think science should be viewed like that.

Crackpot: The term crackpot refers to someone who holds or promotes eccentric, bizarre, or unscientific ideas, often with a disregard for evidence or rationality.

It seems you’re arguing semantics. What I meant was, “respect science”. A layperson who concocts theories which get scientifically debunked and still clings to his theories is an arrogant idiot, for lack of a better term. 

RFK doesn’t respect science. He thinks he know better than health scientists. He’s made several verifiably false claims. 

If you made a list of traits you wouldn’t want to see in the person most influential in shaping public health policy, how high up on the list would “Rejects scientific consensus and clings to pet theories” be? 

How does it affect your estimation of him? Do you give it any weight at all? Do you view his rejection of scientific consensus as potentially good for breakthroughs? Lol 

Edited November 25 by Joshe

[What Am I]

34 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Crackpot: The term crackpot refers to someone who holds or promotes eccentric, bizarre, or unscientific ideas, often with a disregard for evidence or rationality.

It seems you’re arguing semantics. What I meant was, “respect science”. A layperson who concocts theories which get scientifically debunked and still clings to his theories is an arrogant idiot, for lack of a better term. 

RFK doesn’t respect science. He thinks he know better than health scientists. He’s made several verifiably false claims. 

If you made a list of traits you wouldn’t want to see in the person most influential in shaping public health policy, how high up on the list would “Rejects scientific consensus and clings to pet theories” be? 

How does it affect your estimation of him? Do you give it any weight at all? Do you view his rejection of scientific consensus as potentially good for breakthroughs? Lol 

Let me try to help explain why I in particular have a looser acceptance of the current scientific consensus in general. I can't really speak for others.

I'm not just guessing when I say spirituality is real and that we're all in fact a single unitary being. From the significant direct experiences I've had, I'm 99.9̄.% sure that's the case. The dash above the .9 represents the fraction repeating indefinitely. So I leave the tiniest window possible for myself to be incorrect, because 100% certainty in anything can be a very dangerous thing.

If I were to express this opinion to the scientific community, how do you think I'd be greeted? Isn't it possible I'd be called something along the lines of a crackpot, or even something far worse? How about Leo and his teachings? Or how about the entirety of the perennial philosophy? Do you really think such methodologies haven't been "debunked" before?

My point isn't necessarily to conflate spiritual truths with appropriate health protocols. None of this means that RFK's plans are automatically correct or beneficial. It's just that for me, I can't help but be aware of science's blind spots. If something as fundamental as the true nature of reality can be arrogantly overlooked, why is it so hard to imagine that a relatively small amount of double-blind placebo-controlled studies aren't the godly arbiter of truth they're made out to be? I'm just more open to the potential for alternatives to be true, because I've lived the lonely existence of a true alternative for more than half of my life.

We've never really talked about your spiritual experience before. If you have a way lesser conviction about it, everything I'm saying may just be me pissing into the wind. Where do you land on the topic? Any earth-shattering experiences that made you rethink the seeming dualistic nature of our existence?

[Jodistrict]

8 hours ago, What Am I said:

Learn to embrace the commandments of your new Lord in Health.

Florida surgeon general says fluoride shouldn't be added to drinking water: 'Public health malpractice'

https://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-surgeon-general-announcing-new-guidance-water-treatment

[What Am I]

Just now, Jodistrict said:

Florida surgeon general says fluoride shouldn't be added to drinking water: 'Public health malpractice'

https://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-surgeon-general-announcing-new-guidance-water-treatment

I was just kidding. Removing fluoride from tap water is a no-brainer for me. I don't want my drinking water to be spiked with any substance, regardless of the beneficial effects it may have on tooth health. If fluoridated water turns out to be deleterious to health in other ways, that'd just further reinforce my opinion.

[Joshe]

On 11/24/2024 at 8:02 PM, What Am I said:

I'm not just guessing when I say spirituality is real and that we're all in fact a single unitary being. From the significant direct experiences I've had, I'm 99.9̄.% sure that's the case. The dash above the .9 represents the fraction repeating indefinitely. So I leave the tiniest window possible for myself to be incorrect, because 100% certainty in anything can be a very dangerous thing.

I'm 100% sure the materialist paradigm is false. 

On 11/24/2024 at 8:02 PM, What Am I said:

If I were to express this opinion to the scientific community, how do you think I'd be greeted? Isn't it possible I'd be called something along the lines of a crackpot, or even something far worse? How about Leo and his teachings? Or how about the entirety of the perennial philosophy? Do you really think such methodologies haven't been "debunked" before?

They have not debunked spirituality and they never can. I don't expect science to contend with spirituality. 

On 11/24/2024 at 8:02 PM, What Am I said:

My point isn't necessarily to conflate spiritual truths with appropriate health protocols. None of this means that RFK's plans are automatically correct or beneficial. It's just that for me, I can't help but be aware of science's blind spots. If something as fundamental as the true nature of reality can be arrogantly overlooked, why is it so hard to imagine that a relatively small amount of double-blind placebo-controlled studies aren't the godly arbiter of truth they're made out to be? I'm just more open to the potential for alternatives to be true, because I've lived the lonely existence of a true alternative for more than half of my life.

Science's spiritual ignorance is irrelevant in the material world. Randomized double-blind placebo-controlled studies are just the starting point. The real data comes in after the product ships. The scientific evidence available shows that RFK's claims are fundamentally flawed in both scale and scope. 

This notion that because science is spiritually ignorant, it's not all it's cracked up to be, could easily be used to deceive yourself and to minimize its importance.

You don't want random quacks taking guesses at what they think is healthy for you, do you? "Hey, might as well, because science don't know everything. Let's try this one guy's hunch, even though actual scientists in the field all agree it's dangerous." 

Which do you prefer? RFK or real scientists? C'mon man! 

On 11/24/2024 at 8:02 PM, What Am I said:

We've never really talked about your spiritual experience before. If you have a way lesser conviction about it, everything I'm saying may just be me pissing into the wind. Where do you land on the topic? Any earth-shattering experiences that made you rethink the seeming dualistic nature of our existence?

I've seen through the illusion and it can't be unseen. I know what it's about, for the most part. 

I tread carefully with spirituality and try not to intellectualize it too much. I think I have a natural gift for it but I don't want to develop it any further than what I have because I don't know where it will lead. If all the people on earth disappear tomorrow, I would then spend the rest of my life practicing spirituality, but the world doesn't need people sitting on cushions at the moment.

I was initially driven to spirituality through sheer curiosity and a lack of meaning and purpose. Now, I can see that the pursuit or attainment of spirituality is just an experience, like any other experience. I might find beautiful things there, and I have, and I might experience extraordinary phenomena and I might see even deeper truths than than what I already have, but these things do not excite me so much anymore. It's like how the magic trick loses its appeal when you see how it is done. It almost seems like hedonism and only necessary if one needs to relieve themselves of life's burden.

Edited November 26 by Joshe

[What Am I]

25 minutes ago, Joshe said:

I've seen through the illusion and it can't be unseen. I know what it's about, for the most part. 

I tread carefully with spirituality and try not to intellectualize it too much. I think I have a natural gift for it but I don't want to develop it any further than what I have because I don't know where it will lead. If all the people on earth disappear tomorrow, I would then spend the rest of my life practicing spirituality, but the world doesn't need people sitting on cushions at the moment.

I was initially driven to spirituality through sheer curiosity and a lack of meaning and purpose. Now, I can see that the pursuit or attainment of spirituality is just an experience, like any other experience. I might find beautiful things there, and I have, and I might experience extraordinary phenomena and I might see even deeper truths than than what I already have, but these things do not excite me so much anymore. It's like how the magic trick loses its appeal when you see how it is done. It almost seems like hedonism and only necessary if one needs to relieve themselves of life's burden.

It takes a lot to share something like this, and I appreciate it.

I wouldn't disagree with much of what you said, but I think I find spiritual awareness to be way more relevant and practical in everyday life. It's not merely about transcendent states of consciousness that reveal the inner workings behind the scenes of life, though that is a major part of it. As I'm guessing you already know, developing your strength of consciousness is an act that's right here and now. It's a heavy amplification of your awareness in the present moment and a profound decreasing of the illusory doer. In many ways, you're literally more alive the more you develop it. The fact that it's not taught in preschool is an absolute tragedy for humanity, considering the uphill battle caused by a lifetime of anti-awareness habits.

51 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Science's spiritual ignorance is irrelevant in the material world. Randomized double-blind placebo-controlled studies are just the starting point. The real data comes in after the product ships. The scientific evidence available shows that RFK's claims are fundamentally flawed in both scale and scope. 

This notion that because science is spiritually ignorant, it's not all it's cracked up to be, could easily be used to deceive yourself and to minimize its importance.

You don't want random quacks taking guesses at what they think is healthy for you, do you? "Hey, might as well, because science don't know everything. Let's try this one guy's hunch, even though actual scientists in the field all agree it's dangerous." 

Which do you prefer? RFK or real scientists? C'mon man!

I stand by my claim of shaken trust in scientific consensus that was born of knowing a major truth that it's currently lacking, because not doing so would be a lie on my part. But I'm not wholly insensitive to what you're saying. I understand the need for rigorous science. You and I may not see eye to eye on whether certain policies should be implemented, but I doubt we're as different as it seems on the surface.

It may also be worth pointing out that I don't believe RFK is a lone theorizer who just made this stuff up. I view these more as alternative consensi, formed and held by many before RFK made his way to the scene. I suppose he's just an individual that gives voice to those who subscribe to them.

[Jodistrict]

Vindicated

RFK Jr will cut prescription drugs and increase weed and psychedelics access

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/25/rfk-jr-prescription-drugs-cannabis-psychedelics

 

The buzz about Trump and psychedelics

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/future-pulse/2024/11/11/the-buzz-about-trump-and-psychedelics-00188669

[Recursoinominado]

23 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Vindicated

RFK Jr will cut prescription drugs and increase weed and psychedelics access

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/25/rfk-jr-prescription-drugs-cannabis-psychedelics

 

The buzz about Trump and psychedelics

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/future-pulse/2024/11/11/the-buzz-about-trump-and-psychedelics-00188669

This is gossip and speculation. 

[Schizophonia]

On 24/11/2024 at 1:10 AM, Recursoinominado said:

Bro, he is 70 years old, how many jacked 70 yo do you know?

Even considering there is probably a good pump going on for those photos.

 

Look at Markus Rothkranz at 63yo.

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, What Am I said:

It's a heavy amplification of your awareness in the present moment and a profound decreasing of the illusory doer. In many ways, you're literally more alive the more you develop it.

If I developed it, I might stop caring about money and my family would suffer. This is just one example of many things that could go wrong. 

I can't see how it's beneficial to anyone but me. I could feel more free, more love, more at peace, and enjoy life more if I practiced, but I think it would make me ineffective, passive, and really just not fit to operate in this world. It just seems self-serving. I'm sure this take isn't appreciated by many. lol. 

Don't get me wrong, I know it's nice, but so are opiates. I do want to push the limits before I die, but it's too early for that.

[zazen]

5 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

This is gossip and speculation. 

Isn’t Trump being a tyrannical orange Hitler also speculation? He wasn’t that 4 years ago and we all survived..

Meanwhile, Bidens administration presided over a plausible genocide and did nothing to stop it but in fact facilitated it, excused it, and diplomatically shielded it.

They did nothing to de-escalate the Ukraine war. Nord stream blowing up is forgotten as if it never happened, the findings aren’t even being released by Swedens investigation which is now closed - though they found it was extensively sabotaged.

When Kamala was asked what changes would be made she said she wouldn’t change anything, and was committed to continuity.

Two months before Biden leaving office they have escalated against Russia crossings its red line by green lighting missile strikes into Russia. Due to this, NATO are now talking of pre-emptive strikes on Russia, and UK and France are talking of troop deployment in Ukraine.

The establishment are backing a plausible genocide flirting with a major regional war in the Middle East that would spiral the world into hyperinflation,  and another war of nuclear brinkmanship that would devastate the world to a degree we wouldn’t even exist to worry about hyperinflation.

Yet - we should be raging about the hypothetical tyranny of Trump coming in and not about the real tyranny currently occurring?

And before anyone says Biden probably didn’t green light it - okay then, but who did? Who’s making the decisions? That is part of the populist point - a faceless machine of an establishment is harder to tackle and far scarier to live with because it’s a invisible leviathan rather than a visible loudmouth buffoon you can just vote out.

Edited November 26 by zazen

[Recursoinominado]

4 hours ago, zazen said:

Isn’t Trump being a tyrannical orange Hitler also speculation? He wasn’t that 4 years ago and we all survived..

When people call him Hitler, they don't mean 1945 Hitler, but earlier Hitler, before he got absolute power.

2016 United States is a more robust democracy than 1930's Germany was.

The US has more checks and balances, but the historical context is completely different.

Given enough time and power, Trump could do unimaginable damage to the world, especially because now his freedom might depend on it. 

[cistanche_enjoyer]

On 23/11/2024 at 11:00 PM, How to be wise said:

Leo goes crazy every time Trump is brought up. You never see him calmly mentioning where he disagrees with Trump, or his actions. He just explodes and loses himself. This is the problem.

Exactly! He mentioned in his videos multiple times how everything in this universe is good in the big picture - then why does he get so triggered with Trump? Isn’t it just a phase that humanity needs to go through as planned by the infinite intelligence?

It sort of looks like Leo is going backwards on spiritual development and letting his ego get ahead of him.

[Kid A]

26 minutes ago, cistanche_enjoyer said:

Exactly! He mentioned in his videos multiple times how everything in this universe is good in the big picture - then why does he get so triggered with Trump? Isn’t it just a phase that humanity needs to go through as planned by the infinite intelligence?

It sort of looks like Leo is going backwards on spiritual development and letting his ego get ahead of him.

There’s a time and place to sit back and simply observe the universe going about its business, with a smile on your face. When your children are being raped or when your country falls into the claws of an undemocratic egomaniac, those are not such times.

[What Am I]

9 hours ago, Joshe said:

If I developed it, I might stop caring about money and my family would suffer. This is just one example of many things that could go wrong. 

I can't see how it's beneficial to anyone but me. I could feel more free, more love, more at peace, and enjoy life more if I practiced, but I think it would make me ineffective, passive, and really just not fit to operate in this world. It just seems self-serving. I'm sure this take isn't appreciated by many. lol. 

Don't get me wrong, I know it's nice, but so are opiates. I do want to push the limits before I die, but it's too early for that.

Well, I think the idea of meditation may be inspiring images of Buddhist monks hiding away for years in a cave. It really doesn't have to be that way, lol. But I can respect your caution in not wanting to potentially rock the boat.

Another benefit that comes to mind is one that's often mentioned by Ken Wilber. If I remember correctly, it was observed that a successful meditation practice is the only known thing that's capable of advancing the practitioner an average of two levels in Spiral Dynamics when they're already advanced in age. Apparently, most people become cemented at their current level by young adulthood, but meditation has the power to break one free from those shackles. That's not surprising, since it involves a dissolving of the source of conditioning itself.

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, What Am I said:

Well, I think the idea of meditation may be inspiring images of Buddhist monks hiding away for years in a cave. It really doesn't have to be that way, lol. But I can respect your caution in not wanting to potentially rock the boat.

lol, no. Of course I wouldn't set out to go to a cave and abandon all earthly things (although I did want that in my mid 20's), but I might be compelled to such extremes if I allowed spiritual development to proceed. I already live in awareness that it's all an illusion. I've already gone meta on so much that I intuit anymore could be destabilizing. I think further development has its pros and cons but I'm just taking it slow for now, and I think a spiritual force is at play in making me feel this way. 

[What Am I]

21 minutes ago, Joshe said:

lol, no. Of course I wouldn't set out to go to a cave and abandon all earthly things (although I did want that in my mid 20's), but I might be compelled to such extremes if I allowed spiritual development to proceed. I already live in awareness that it's all an illusion. I've already gone meta on so much that I intuit anymore could be destabilizing. I think further development has its pros and cons but I'm just taking it slow for now, and I think a spiritual force is at play in making me feel this way. 

Definitely a reasonable move to trust your gut, especially if it's an informed decision.