Is This One of The 10% of False Teachings?

[r0ckyreed]

I remember Leo talking about how meditation and nonduality is not awakening. But I am wondering if this is one of the 10% of the false teachings?

I mean think about it, what is the alternative? Just scrolling on TikTok and YouTube!!? That will never get you awake. Or is the alternative to plug DMT every day? That's not realistic either. 

What I have come to conclusion of is that meditation is all about increasing your awareness to the actuality of reality. You can take all the DMT you want, but if you aren't grounded in the actuality of the present moment, no amount of psychedelics will awaken you. There are plenty of people who take psychedelics more than me and maybe more than Leo but who are not awake.

I think maybe Leo made a nuanced point in that no method is the awakening in the same way that the map is not the territory.

Meditation is not awakening. Psychedelics is not a awakening. Contemplation is not awakening. Because all of these are activities and is not the same as state. It is confusing doing with being. Awakening is a state of BEING in which certain things that you can DO may bring about that state of BEING/REALIZATION. But the activities of meditation and psychedelics are not realization/being themselves. I think this may be the point he was making.

I don't think Leo is discouraging people from meditating, but rather he is challenging people who are engaging in meditation filled with human Buddhist ideological nonsense. I get it. Chanting the Hare Krishna mantra over and over again probably won't get you to awakening. Awakening is too profound for such a simple dumb method like chanting Hare Krishna (no offense). There can be many deluded methods of meditation and psychedelics (i.e., such as chanting a religious mantra). But there can be more profound ways of meditation that can bring about mystical experiences and maybe even enlightenment. But the effectiveness of such a method would vary across different individuals. 

I am convinced though that there is no awakening/enlightenment without serious contemplation. You can quiet your mind, but if you don't know how to use your mind to think in nuanced ways, to avoid bias, then how could you be awake? How can you be awake if you would still vote for Trump and hold a lot of deluded stuff in your mind?

So my point is that the method is not awakening, but this does not mean to stop meditating. It means to examine closely what you are doing and to make sure that you are meditating in ways that actually transform your consciousness. There may be limits on what meditation can do for some people, but what is the alternative? We just gonna scroll on social media!? No! We still engage in meditation and contemplation, but we aim to improve at it little by little. Meditation may not lead to the deepest levels of reality, but it is a practice that will transform your life for the better if done correctly. Meditation is a better alternative than chasing after money, fame, sex even if it doesn't ultimately lead to the highest levels. But that is still a big question mark of whether meditation can lead to the deepest levels or not. I think it all depends on how effective you are. You cannot be effective if your mind still clings to Buddhist, Spiritual nondual beliefs/ideology. If one thing Buddhism teaches you, it is that clinging is the root of all ignorance/suffering. Buddhism taken to the extreme deconstructs itself.

Edited November 17 by r0ckyreed

[James123]

5 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

I remember Leo talking about how meditation and nonduality is not awakening. But I am wondering if this is one of the 10% of the false teachings?

I mean think about it, what is the alternative? Just scrolling on TikTok and YouTube!!? That will never get you awake. Or is the alternative to plug DMT every day? That's not realistic either. 

What I have come to conclusion of is that meditation is all about increasing your awareness to the actuality of reality. You can take all the DMT you want, but if you aren't grounded in the actuality of the present moment, no amount of psychedelics will awaken you. There are plenty of people who take psychedelics more than me and maybe more than Leo but who are not awake.

I think maybe Leo made a nuanced point in that no method is the awakening in the same way that the map is not the territory.

Meditation is not awakening. Psychedelics is not a awakening. Contemplation is not awakening. Because all of these are activities and is not the same as state. It is confusing doing with being. Awakening is a state of BEING in which certain things that you can DO may bring about that state of BEING/REALIZATION. But the activities of meditation and psychedelics are not realization/being themselves. I think this may be the point he was making.

I don't think Leo is discouraging people from meditating, but rather he is challenging people who are engaging in meditation filled with human Buddhist ideological nonsense. I get it. Chanting the Hare Krishna mantra over and over again probably won't get you to awakening. Awakening is too profound for such a simple dumb method like chanting Hare Krishna (no offense). There can be many deluded methods of meditation and psychedelics (i.e., such as chanting a religious mantra). But there can be more profound ways of meditation that can bring about mystical experiences and maybe even enlightenment. But the effectiveness of such a method would vary across different individuals. 

I am convinced though that there is no awakening/enlightenment without serious contemplation. You can quiet your mind, but if you don't know how to use your mind to think in nuanced ways, to avoid bias, then how could you be awake? How can you be awake if you would still vote for Trump and hold a lot of deluded stuff in your mind?

So my point is that the method is not awakening, but this does not mean to stop meditating. It means to examine closely what you are doing and to make sure that you are meditating in ways that actually transform your consciousness. There may be limits on what meditation can do for some people, but what is the alternative? We just gonna scroll on social media!? No! We still engage in meditation and contemplation, but we aim to improve at it little by little. Meditation may not lead to the deepest levels of reality, but it is a practice that will transform your life for the better if done correctly. Meditation is a better alternative than chasing after money, fame, sex even if it doesn't ultimately lead to the highest levels. But that is still a big question mark of whether meditation can lead to the deepest levels or not. I think it all depends on how effective you are. You cannot be effective if your mind still clings to Buddhist, Spiritual nondual beliefs/ideology. If one thing Buddhism teaches you, it is that clinging is the root of all ignorance/suffering. Buddhism taken to the extreme deconstructs itself.

None of the teachings are fundamentally true. Because, the truth is not knowing or silence. Because the knowledge is the biggest illusion. 

[Sugarcoat]

If non duality is not awakening then what is 

[r0ckyreed]

24 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

If non duality is not awakening then what is 

Alien consciousness?

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, r0ckyreed said:

Alien consciousness?

Non duality is still for me the most radical. What could be more radical than there being no separation, no self? 

[Hojo]

@Sugarcoat Alien consciousness is lesser than God. Its not as cool. Every different animal has alien consciousness.

Edited November 17 by Hojo

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Hojo said:

@Sugarcoat Alien consciousness is lesser than God. Its not as cool.

I don’t know what alien consciousness is but for me non duality is still the most radical. That is what you mean by “god” right

[Hojo]

@Sugarcoat Yes its what I mean. I don't know what it is either but its guaranteed lesser than God.

If you had the opportunity to see alien consciousness or God always go God.

Edited November 17 by Hojo

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

@Sugarcoat Yes its what I mean. I don't know what it is either but its guaranteed lesser than God.

If you had the opportunity to see alien consciousness or God always go God.

I would chose god definitely 

[Ishanga]

44 minutes ago, James123 said:

None of the teachings are fundamentally true. Because, the truth is not knowing or silence. Because the knowledge is the biggest illusion. 

Everything has a beginning, for Us is today's world with Today's mind it needs knowledge first, think of it like a set of steps, first You have to step up to the first step, You can't go to step #10 first, so its like this,,in the end identify with Ignorance because that is the basic quality, we will never "Know" everything about everything, its not possible, but we will always be ignorant,  Silence is later on like step #7...all of it leads to Enlightenment and Liberation..

[James123]

15 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Everything has a beginning, for Us is today's world with Today's mind it needs knowledge first, think of it like a set of steps, first You have to step up to the first step, You can't go to step #10 first, so its like this,,in the end identify with Ignorance because that is the basic quality, we will never "Know" everything about everything, its not possible, but we will always be ignorant,  Silence is later on like step #7...all of it leads to Enlightenment and Liberation..

No. It doesn't, language, experiencing or naming / labeling the words make people lost in fantasies. 

[Ishanga]

Just now, James123 said:

No. It doesn't, language, experiencing or naming / labeling the words make people lost in fantasies. 

Yes that is possible to, all of it is possible, but it can also lead to Curiosity by which leads one to Seek, they become a Seeker which for most ppl is where the path starts, but if Your a True Seeker then all knowing has to stop, You cannot truly Seek to Know if You think You know something already, Your inherent intelligence will stop functioning and working, then You get lots in philosophies and ideologies and non Truth or Awakening..

"I do not Know" if a wonderful way to Seek, it opens up Your natural Intelligence (curiosity traits), that allow You too explore the full Potential of what it means to be Human..

[Eph75]

@r0ckyreed

Mind wants for make out enlightenment/truth realization and awakening to the illusion as something extraordinary - which it is not. It's the most obvious and plain thing imaginable. Yet mind not yet seeing it makes up bedtime stories that will keep you fast asleep within the dream.

Mediation can be a tool, but also might not. 

Contemplation can be a tool, but also it might not. 

A divorce could equally be a powerful tool, or a rejection or some sort, or an unexpected death, or some other seemingly random event that spins you off into a depression. 

Key is to have things/sense of self unravel in a certain way.

You can't choose this, but you can practice things in certain ways so that you help yourself loose the tight hold of the illusion you're stuck within. See if it gets a grip and things start unraveling. 

Meditation can be the tool that lowers the noise to signal ratio so that contemplation around the right questions become more clear and powerful. 

Same with all of these things or tools that can serve awakening and later possibly enlightenment, if they become vessels moving you in the right direction. If you just use them and they run in any direction it's likely just a waste of time. 

You mention drugs that don't get most people anywhere, same thing, vessels. 

Equally, you don't have to leverage any of them. It might just unravel without choice or awareness of what's going on / where it's heading - and you might just become aware that your entire life has been a journey in that direction, after the fact. 

Meditation feels good though so why not, even if you gets you nowhere but pleasent consciousness states. 

Does that make it false? No, just incomplete within something that is far more complex than a simple practice. 

Distinction: complicated, hard to learn but reproducible once you've developed a blueprint - complex, non-reproducible and dependent on many variables that constantly change and vary between e.g. different people, situations and even points in time. 

Edited November 17 by Eph75

[gettoefl]

Words are the barrier

Can you speak in one sentence please

[James123]

3 hours ago, Ishanga said:

Yes that is possible to, all of it is possible, but it can also lead to Curiosity by which leads one to Seek, they become a Seeker which for most ppl is where the path starts, but if Your a True Seeker then all knowing has to stop, You cannot truly Seek to Know if You think You know something already, Your inherent intelligence will stop functioning and working, then You get lots in philosophies and ideologies and non Truth or Awakening..

"I do not Know" if a wonderful way to Seek, it opens up Your natural Intelligence (curiosity traits), that allow You too explore the full Potential of what it means to be Human..

 

He says it all.

[Yimpa]

I think the point is that when you awaken deep enough, you realize that everything is imaginary.. including you, psychedelics, contemplation, meditation, etc. etc. And that there is nobody in control here.

[Princess Arabia]

When you go to sleep at night, do you try to awaken yourself. Do you do processes and chant mantras to awaken yourself while sleeping. Why do we do this if we think we're asleep now. Why do you think you're asleep. Do you realize it's thought that ceases when you sleep. When you arise, thought appears. Do you realize it's thought that says I need to awaken. Do you realize that without thought and labels there's only what appears. Does anything appear when you sleep. Yes, dreams. Who's dreaming. Who is aware of the dream. Is it your sleeping body or your awake awareness. YOULRE ALWAYS AWAKE. 

 

[Ishanga]

18 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

When you go to sleep at night, do you try to awaken yourself. Do you do processes and chant mantras to awaken yourself while sleeping. Why do we do this if we think we're asleep now. Why do you think you're asleep. Do you realize it's thought that ceases when you sleep. When you arise, thought appears. Do you realize it's thought that says I need to awaken. Do you realize that without thought and labels there's only what appears. Does anything appear when you sleep. Yes, dreams. Who's dreaming. Who is aware of the dream. Is it your sleeping body or your awake awareness. YOULRE ALWAYS AWAKE. 

 

This is an easy one.. With Deep Sleep and us waking up, this is a natural process built into the system, i don't think it is thought, it is karma, or built in software that is on many levels that wakes us up and gets us moving (if we don't move we die),  and its not the same as using the analogy of "Being Asleep" compared to Wakefulness in regards to Consciousness/Awareness of Reality and what we are, this is much much deeper.

There are tons of layers to what You are, and its all relative to say it simply..  Being Conscious of Yourself means You know what You are and are Not, I am not the Body or Mind, so then what was there before the Body/Mind so that a Body and Mind are here now to use?? What is the fundamental of what You are so that any accumulation and gathering occurs so that You think You are something other than what You are?

This is an identification problem, and it comes naturally for Us since we need to be identified with our Body first so that we have the Will to protect it and feed it and take care of it, then we identify with our family (as an extension of Yourself) so that we do the same with them, and on and on it goes, we are way too identified with way too many things nowadays I think, but never with what we really are, which is a non physical aspect of what makes up everything..

The questions of "Who is Aware of the Dream" and such are Good Questions to ask and inquire about within ones self, but how to Inquire, how to find out without thinking too much and once again mis identifying with something You are not..there are methods and teachings that help one with this stuff, the key is not too identify with the methods and teachings, just use them as tools, drop them when what You want to find out happens...

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Ishanga said:

This is an easy one.. With Deep Sleep and us waking up, this is a natural process built into the system, i don't think it is thought, it is karma, or built in software that is on many levels that wakes us up and gets us moving (if we don't move we die),  and its not the same as using the analogy of "Being Asleep" compared to Wakefulness in regards to Consciousness/Awareness of Reality and what we are, this is much much deeper.

There are tons of layers to what You are, and its all relative to say it simply..  Being Conscious of Yourself means You know what You are and are Not, I am not the Body or Mind, so then what was there before the Body/Mind so that a Body and Mind are here now to use?? What is the fundamental of what You are so that any accumulation and gathering occurs so that You think You are something other than what You are?

This is an identification problem, and it comes naturally for Us since we need to be identified with our Body first so that we have the Will to protect it and feed it and take care of it, then we identify with our family (as an extension of Yourself) so that we do the same with them, and on and on it goes, we are way too identified with way too many things nowadays I think, but never with what we really are, which is a non physical aspect of what makes up everything..

The questions of "Who is Aware of the Dream" and such are Good Questions to ask and inquire about within ones self, but how to Inquire, how to find out without thinking too much and once again mis identifying with something You are not..there are methods and teachings that help one with this stuff, the key is not too identify with the methods and teachings, just use them as tools, drop them when what You want to find out happens...

Thank you for your response and sharing your thoughts.

[CoolDreamThanks]

The 10% false is obviously his vid about infinite gods. It’s not even a discussion, lol.