Watching The Dominion

[Nemra]

@Scholar, do you think we shouldn't eat meat because animals feel pain when being killed?

I mean, imagining the pain could be a reason not to eat them, but why do you think people even like meat? Why is it delicious?

I don't know if people do it, but can't they be made unconscious and then be killed? What would you say about that?

Edited November 20, 2024 by Nemra

[Scholar]

25 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Scholar, do you think we shouldn't eat meat because animals feel pain when being killed?

I mean, imagining the pain could be a reason not to eat them, but why do you think people even like meat? Why is it delicious?

I don't know if people do it, but can't they be made unconscious and then be killed? What would you say about that?

No, it's not just the pain. I think we shouldn't kill animals for food for the same reasons we shouldn't kill humans for food.

It's delicious because it provides nutrients that are not easy to come by otherwise in a natural scenarios.

[Nemra]

11 minutes ago, Scholar said:

No, it's not just the pain.

What else?

11 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I think we shouldn't kill animals for food for the same reasons we shouldn't kill humans for food.

Because of some moral reasons?

Edited November 20, 2024 by Nemra

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Because of some moral reasons?

Obviously? Why do we not have a special race of humans that we breed and kill for food?

[Nemra]

43 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Obviously? Why do we not have a special race of humans that we breed and kill for food?

So, you are essentially saying that only the things that don't fight, or we don't perceive it fighting for its life, would rather be killed?

I wouldn't like it if humans started eating each other, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't eat a non-human thing.

But I also wouldn't like if we wiped out some species just because we could.

Edited November 20, 2024 by Nemra

[Scholar]

2 hours ago, Nemra said:

So, you are essentially saying that only the things that don't fight, or we don't perceive it fighting for its life, would rather be killed?

I wouldn't like it if humans started eating each other, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't eat a non-human thing.

But I also wouldn't like if we wiped out some species just because we could.

Well, I think you need to work on your basic compassion.

Most plants we kill are killed by the animals that we then kill to consume. Less plants have to die if you simply eat the plants. But yes, plants most likely don't have individuated consciousness.

[Nemra]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

Well, I think you need to work on your basic compassion.

That advice should be given to the abusers.

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

Most plants we kill are killed by the animals that we then kill to consume.

Animals can and will eat what they want.

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

Less plants have to die if you simply eat the plants.

Could you expand on that?

I'm not even saying that I shouldn't kill plants. I'll eat plants and animals.

It's another matter to think about which ones a person should eat to not unnecessary kill them.

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

But yes, plants most likely don't have individuated consciousness.

If they become self-aware to the degree like I am and be more like a human, then I wouldn't eat them unless I'm cannibalistic, I guess.

It's not that I have to necessarily eat animals to relate to them. I can "befriend" them, but I probably won't be able to do the same with the animals that I will eat. It will also be difficult for me.

I'm guessing that you would say that animals have individuated consciousness. Then why do some of them eat meat and not plants?

Edited November 20, 2024 by Nemra

[Scholar]

25 minutes ago, Nemra said:

That advice should be given to the abusers.

It's not only abusers who must increase their compassion.

 

26 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Animals can and will eat what they want.

No, they eat what we feed them.

 

26 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Could you expand on that?

I'm not even saying that I shouldn't kill plants. I'll eat plants and animals.

It's another matter to think about which ones a person should eat to not unnecessary kill them.

You are attempting to relativize your killing of animals by comparing them to plants. As if killing a human was the same as pulling a blade of grass.

 

28 minutes ago, Nemra said:

If they become self-aware to the degree like I am and be more like a human, then I wouldn't eat them unless I'm cannibalistic, I guess.

It's not that I have to necessarily eat animals to relate to them. I can "befriend" them, but I probably won't be able to do the same with the animals that I will eat. It will also be difficult for me.

I'm guessing that you would say that animals have individuated consciousness. Then why do some of them eat meat and not plants?

Conversely, you would deem it permissible to kill and eat humans who are not as self-aware as you are. You don't have to be a friend of someone to not pay for their enslavement and death.

 

Some animals eat meat because they evolved to.

[Nemra]

37 minutes ago, Scholar said:

You are attempting to relativize your killing of animals by comparing them to plants.

I wouldn't kill a human unless they try to threaten me. But to survive I'll have to directly or indirectly kill non-human things. It doesn't matter if you don't like that.

However, I would like to fill my hunger without ever killing anything, but that's not possible, at least in this decade.

37 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Conversely, you would deem it permissible to kill and eat humans who are not as self-aware as you are. You don't have to be a friend of someone to not pay for their enslavement and death

I don't like eating humans. Also, people have emotional connections with each other. I think you can also have emotional connections with plants and animals.

37 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Some animals eat meat because they evolved to.

Are you saying animals were eating plants in the beginning?

That's doesn't make any sense.

37 minutes ago, Scholar said:

It's not only abusers who must increase their compassion.

Yeah, all of the people who don't treat them well before killing.

Increasing your compassion doesn't mean you'll be able to survive without ever killing anything.

Edited November 21, 2024 by Nemra

[Scholar]

36 minutes ago, Nemra said:

I wouldn't kill a human unless they try to threaten me. But to survive I'll have to directly or indirectly kill non-human things. It doesn't matter if you don't like that.

However, I would like to fill my hunger without ever killing anything, but that's not possible, at least in this decade.

Why does it matter if they are human or not?

 

36 minutes ago, Nemra said:

I don't like eating humans. Also, people have emotional connections with each other. I think you can also have emotional connections with plants and animals.

We could have a class of humans we don't care about that we breed and dehumanize, like we do with animals.

 

37 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Yeah, all of the people who don't treat them well before killing.

Increasing your compassion doesn't mean you'll be able to survive without ever killing anything.

That's all animals, because all of them are slaves whose children are stolen. 

Why do you kill more than you need to? If you kill an animal, you kill the animal and all the plants that had to die to feed it. If you only eat plants, you will kill no animal, and far less plants than the animal would have eaten, to get the same nutrients.

[Nemra]

10 hours ago, Scholar said:

Why does it matter if they are human or not?

Because we are emotionally connected. Although, people still kill each other for other reasons.

We can also emotionally connect with everything. But as you can see you'll have problems with surviving unless you figure out a way to survive without ever killing.

10 hours ago, Scholar said:

That's all animals, because all of them are slaves whose children are stolen. 

I know.

I don't like the animal abuse before killing though.

10 hours ago, Scholar said:

If you only eat plants, you will kill no animal, and far less plants than the animal would have eaten, to get the same nutrients.

I don't know if by only eating plants I would lessen the killings.

If it lessens, I don't know if I can fully survive on plants.

However, I'm open-minded to that.

Edited November 21, 2024 by Nemra

[Scholar]

8 hours ago, Marcel said:

Underlying theory well and good. Still. I wouldn’t be so quick to say I actually understand something just „because I have thought about it for a few seconds“ as you suggested to me in the very beginning. 

It's not that I understand the topic, I understand how stupid the unreflected assumptions are that go with people who just mindlessly compare animal consciousness to plant consciousness and assume some sort of naive realistic connection between the two, as if an act in itself causes a certain experience. 

Just because you cut something doesn't mean it will feel pain. The pain in response to being cut, in animals, is a very particular thing.

 

On 21.11.2024 at 11:23 AM, Nemra said:

Because we are emotionally connected. Although, people still kill each other for other reasons.

We can also emotionally connect with everything. But as you can see you'll have problems with surviving unless you figure out a way to survive without ever killing.

So there should be no problem with creating a human slave food class that we don't emotionally connect to.

 

On 21.11.2024 at 11:23 AM, Nemra said:

I don't know if by only eating plants I would lessen the killings.

If it lessens, I don't know if I can fully survive on plants.

However, I'm open-minded to that.

Then you better get to research it, given that this is a life and death question.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2024 by Scholar

[Nemra]

10 minutes ago, Scholar said:

So there should be no problem with creating a human slave food class that we don't emotionally connect to.

Luckily, we don't need human slave class to fill our hunger.

If you care about not enslaving anything, then you better figure out a way to not kill anything.

21 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Then you better get to research it, given that this is a life and death question.

I hope you're only eating plants.

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

Luckily, we don't need human slave class to fill our hunger.

If you care about not enslaving anything, then you better figure out a way to not kill anything.

Why luckily? According to you there is no difference between them and animals. So why not have a human slave class to eat? In the end we have to kill to survive right?

 

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

I hope you're only eating plants.

I do.

[Nemra]

3 hours ago, Scholar said:

Why luckily? According to you there is no difference between them and animals. So why not have a human slave class to eat? In the end we have to kill to survive right?

There is a difference. Weren't you the one who talked as if there was none?

I wouldn't eat human meat because it's disgusting, I'm not cannibalistic, and I'm dependent and connected to humans more, even if I love to be alone.

Edited November 22, 2024 by Nemra

[Scholar]

38 minutes ago, Nemra said:

There is a difference. Weren't you the one who talked as if there was none?

I wouldn't eat human meat because it's disgusting, I'm not cannibalistic, and I'm dependent and connected to humans more, even if I love to be alone.

But we aren't talking about what you personally would do, but what should be allowed in society. Why would we have laws against killing and eating humans? We could have a special breed that we can kill and eat, like pigs. Why not?

[Nemra]

21 minutes ago, Scholar said:

But we aren't talking about what you personally would do, but what should be allowed in society.

You could create a law to kill certain humans. It's up to us to make that decision, which is based on our personal feelings.

21 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Why would we have laws against killing and eating humans? We could have a special breed that we can kill and eat, like pigs. Why not?

Well, people kill each other but not for eating each other.

If you are talking about humans eating each other, then I'll say because

• I don't think most people are cannibalistic.
• we will probably get extinct.
• we depend on and are emotionally invested in each other.
• people want to continue living.

Edited November 22, 2024 by Nemra

[Scholar]

5 hours ago, Nemra said:

Well, people kill each other but not for eating each other.

If you are talking about humans eating each other, then I'll say because

• I don't think most people are cannibalistic.
• we will probably get extinct.
• we depend on and are emotionally invested in each other.
• people want to continue living.

We could drink human milk, that's not cannibalism. All animal agriculture requires rape, so it's not like you are against that if you eat meat or drink milk.

Why would we go extinct? We had slave classes in the past, it worked for thousands of years.

We don't have to be emotionally invested in the food-human class.

Animals want to continue living.

[Nemra]

@Scholar, weren't you talking about enslaving humans in order to eat them?

Drinking milk doesn't require killing. What are we talking about?

Also, we would go extinct if we ate each other. Again, you were the one who introduced me to the enslavement of humans so that we could eat them.

If we don't become emotionally invested with certain kinds of humans at all, it might be possible that we could easily treat them as food.

Do we want that? I don't think so.

25 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Animals want to continue living.

Plants also, but not in the way animals want. Are you going to say that they just grow for us?

Humans grow plants so that you could eat. Do plants deserve that?

Edited November 23, 2024 by Nemra

[Scholar]

48 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Scholar, weren't you talking about enslaving humans in order to eat them?

Drinking milk doesn't require killing. What are we talking about?

Also, we would go extinct if we ate each other. Again, you were the one who introduced me to the enslavement of humans so that we could eat them.

If we don't become emotionally invested with certain kinds of humans at all, it might be possible that we could easily treat them as food.

Do we want that? I don't think so.

There is no dairy that is sold that doesnt come with killing, and rape is always necessary to keep the cows pregnant.

But we could just have milk humans who are raped and then we use their milk.

 

Why would we go extinct if we only eat a special class of humans we breed? Cows aren't going extinct, are they?

 

Why do we not want that?