Challenge my motivation to eat a vegan diet

[Salvijus]

8 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

🦭

 

Comeon guy.

I eat meat but that’s a horrible argument.

Okay but it's yet to be invalidated. You guys are just running circles calling what I say bs and saying nothing of substance. 

Edited yesterday at 02:32 AM by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

The only way you can live in alignment with Vegan values is if you're living naked in a jungle. Because guess what, the moment you're using your phone, car, city comforts. It's all participating in destruction and cruelty in some shape or form. Just for you to have your phone people are slaving and poisoning themselves mining cobalt and you're using those products. 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 03:08 AM by Salvijus

[Clarence]

6 hours ago, Something Funny said:

@Clarence nothing too radical about it. I've been eating vegan since I wrote that post and I am doing great.

It has just been 4 days. In 5, 10 or 20 years, you might think differently. It will make your life more complicated in many ways, especially in social settings and when eating out. For a few years, you might be okay with it, but the constraint can increase over time and become a nightmare.

Aside from that, veganism isn't great for your health. But then again, you won't notice it before a few years have passed.

Veganism is radical. You know it is.

After how long and in which setting did you fail to maintain the vegan diet in the past?

[Something Funny]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

The only way you can live in alignment with Vegan values is if you're living naked in a jungle. Because guess what, the moment you're using your phone, car, city comforts. It's all participating in destruction and cruelty in some shape or form. Just for you to have your phone people are slaving and poisoning themselves mining cobalt and you're using those products. 

 

no that's the only way we can living in alignment with your strawmanned vegan values.

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Okay but it's yet to be invalidated. You guys are just running circles calling what I say bs and saying nothing of substance. 

I have already responded so many time in so many ways to the bacteria argument, it's becoming annoying.

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

no that's the only way we can living in alignment with your strawmanned vegan values.

I think you've missed the point of the comment. I wanted to bring awareness how much vegans participate in cruelty just by using their phone and enjoying city life. Which goes against everything they stand for. 

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I have already responded so many time in so many ways to the bacteria argument, it's becoming annoying.

It doesn't matter how many times you respond. You're not going to prove that 1.  Life on earth without killing is possible. 2. And that eliminating meat entirely is practicable. 

Once you accept the first truth, you've justified killing in general to survive. And the only question becomes where do you draw the line of what is too much killing? And the line is wherever it's practicable and sustainable. And that means meat is not outside that line. Although the way it is being done today is unnecessarily cruel and could be reduced. That I agree and support. If that's what vegans stand for then we are best friends. 

 

Edited yesterday at 05:07 AM by Salvijus

[Something Funny]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Which goes against everything they stand for. 

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Not really, this is just something you came up with

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

And that eliminating meat entirely is practicable. 

It is for many people, nobody is standing with a gun to your head telling you to stop eating meat.

All this boils down to is the fact that one person is taking concrete action that lead to a better world for everyone and another is simply engaging in armchair philosophy that leads to nowhere, except to justifying further complacency and inaction.

Edited yesterday at 06:03 AM by Something Funny

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

All this boils down to is the fact that one person is taking concrete action that lead to a better world for everyone and another is simply engaging in armchair philosophy that leads to nowhere, except to justifying further complacency and inaction.

Maybe if Vegans did more philosophy aswell they would realize their utopian way of thinking doesn't exist and is not practicable. Partially practicable tho. There're some good things in their ways of thinking. But it needs improvement. 

Edited yesterday at 06:24 AM by Salvijus

[PurpleTree]

I eat meat but i dont have to tell myself stories about how natural it is and how good of a person i am.

I don’t think i am a good person, neither is anyone of you imo. Because there is nobody already who could be good.

Being vegan or not doesn’t make you good either imo. 

[PurpleTree]

I once heard a comedian i think say something like.

If i was an animal eaten by a human or lets say a human eaten by a bear.

I would want the one who eats me to fully enjoy it. And not be like

"gosh i shouldn’t even eat this, it’s horrible, but nom nom, it’s inhumane, nom nom, i’m sorry for eating you i should be vegetarian“

[Nemra]

22 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I eat meat but i dont have to tell myself stories about how natural it is and how good of a person i am.

I don’t think i am a good person, neither is anyone of you imo. Because there is nobody already who could be good.

Being vegan or not doesn’t make you good either imo. 

But don't you see that what you said could be used to abuse animals?

However, both sides must acknowledge that in the end, they are killing to survive.

Edited yesterday at 09:27 AM by Nemra

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

I eat meat but i dont have to tell myself stories about how natural it is and how good of a person i am.

 

It's not about feeding good. It's about showing the limitations of vegan philosophy and coming to terms with some harsh truths of reality 

Edited yesterday at 09:13 AM by Salvijus

[Something Funny]

3 hours ago, Salvijus said:

their utopian way of thinking doesn't exist and is not practicable. Partially practicable tho. There're some good things in their ways of thinking. But it needs improvement. 

Once again, this is just something that you have imagined yourself. There are millions of vegans practicing veganism every day, making a positive change in the world.

It's ironic because you are the one expecting some kind of naive utopia by saying that vegans should care about literally all death in the world, and that veganism should be practicable by literally every person in the world or there is something wrong with it.

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Maybe if Vegans did more philosophy

 

How about we do some philosophy? But real philosophy, grounded in the real world, instead of this mental masturbation.

What exactly is your critique of veganism as a movement and of vegan people in terms of their actions? What would you have them do differently?

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, Something Funny said:

How about we do some philosophy? But real philosophy, grounded in the real world, instead of this mental masturbation.

What exactly is your critique of veganism as a movement and of vegan people in terms of their actions? What would you have them do differently?

They should stop force feeding their pets (cats and dogs) with veggies, that's for sure. 

They should stop seeing killing as some unjustifiable sin. Because you can't live without killing. 

And they should come to terms that humans are half carnivores. Meat is necessary for many to be healthy.

The only thing vegans got right is that it's wise to avoid unnecessary killing and minimize the cruelty as much as possible. But they are pushing those ideals to impractical levels. Even to the point of trying to make pets vegetarian lol. Wtf. 

Edited yesterday at 11:22 AM by Salvijus

[Something Funny]

19 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

They should stop force feeding their pets (cats and dogs) with veggies, that's for sure. 

This is a dishonest way of putting it. I haven't studied the topic too deeply, but as far as I understand, there are vegan pet foods for dogs and have that have all the necessary nutrients. 

Force feeding is what's done to geese at factories where food is literally pushed down their throats. In this case you just give your pet his food and they eat it, willingly.

For some reason, I don't see people having issue with feeding their pet your average pet food which is literally a cancer inducing garbage.

24 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

They should stop seeing killing as some unjustifiable sin. Because you can't live without killing. 

That's just something you came up with. Nobody is saying that.

25 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

And they should come to terms that humans are half carnivores. Meat is necessary for many to be healthy.

This is debatable. Where there is will, there is a way. Many people that eat animal products could totally live on a vegan diet so it makes sense for vegans to try to reach out to those people and at least get them to try. Once again, nobody is walking around, entering houses with a gun and making people go vegan. If you want to make an argument that vegan activism shouldn't exist, I don't agree with it.

Many people are in poor health and chronically ill while eating animal products, but they don't question their diet because it's a status quo.

But as soon as you get sick as a vegan, everyone start to question what you eat.

And lab grown meat is promising (unfortunately, meat industry is actively lobbying to ban it). If more people supported veganism as a whole, there would be more push for lab grown meat to become mainstream. 

[Something Funny]

39 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

But they are pushing those ideals to impractical levels. Even to the point of trying to make pets vegetarian lol. Wtf. 

What impractical levels? The only thing you came up with was pets, which I don't see the issue with as long as the animal is healthy and is getting all the necessary nutrients.

[Something Funny]

@Salvijus https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/20/vegan-pet-food-as-healthy-for-cats-and-dogs-as-meat-says-veterinary-professor

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0253292

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Vegan diets are just as healthy for cats and dogs as meat-based pet food, according to research that will further fuel a row over whether owners should feed their pets plant-based meals.

Andrew Knight, a veterinary professor at the University of Winchester, said his research showed that cats and dogs had as good, or better, health outcomes on plant-based diets as they did when fed on meat pet foods, provided these were carefully formulated with additional synthetic nutrients.

 

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Dogs, cats and other species have requirements for nutrients, they don’t need meat or any other particular ingredient. They need the set of nutrients, and provided those are supplied to them in a diet that’s sufficiently tasty that they’re motivated to eat it, and digestible, we’d expect to see them thrive. And that’s what the evidence seems to indicate,” Knight said. “The claim is animals on vegan diets will necessarily become ill and it’s somehow cruel to maintain them, is contrary to the scientific evidence in this field and is ignorant.

 

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

And they should come to terms that humans are half carnivores. Meat is necessary for many to be healthy.

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

This is debatable

And what if at the end of the debate it turns out that it's true? That meat is indeed necessary for some people to be healthy? Plus consider the fact that not everyone has the same availability of food. Plus not everyone has the same body type. And not everyone has the same health issues. Then veganism the way it is being pushed right now becomes impractical. 

Edited yesterday at 12:00 PM by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

@Salvijus https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/20/vegan-pet-food-as-healthy-for-cats-and-dogs-as-meat-says-veterinary-professor

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0253292

 

Not convinced those animals were in good shape. Biased research probably. These days with enough money you can do bs research and prove whatever you want

Edited yesterday at 11:59 AM by Salvijus

[Something Funny]

33 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

And what if at the end of the debate it turns out that it's true? That meat is indeed necessary for some people to be healthy? Plus consider the fact that not everyone has the same availability of food. Plus not everyone has the same body type. Then veganism the way it is being pushed right now becomes impractical. 

How many times do I need to repeat that?

NOBODY is going around, putting a gun to people's heads and forcing them to be vegan. All that's done is: "Hi, would you consider switching to a vegan diet?". There are courses for beginner vegans, 30 day challenges, etc. The worst thing that could possibly happen to you is that a guy with a microphone will approach you on the street and ask you some questions about veganism.

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Plus consider the fact that not everyone has the same availability of food.

This is a silly argument because meat, and fish, and eggs, is way more expensive than soy, chickpeas, beans, lentils, etc. You can literally get a year long supply of legumes for under 200 bucks where I live.

And even if you eat meat, you still need to eat all the vegetable and grains to have a balanced diet.

The only vegan food that's expensive is fancy processed food, ala vegan burgers, sausages, cheese, etc.

28 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Not convinced those animals were in good shape. Biased research probably. These days with enough money you can do bs research and prove whatever you want

Oh yeah, I am sure there are lots of money in the niche start up industry that's vegan pet food. Much more money than in the meat processing industry and your regular pet food brands, like Royal Canin, ads for which are plastered in every vet's office around the world, even though it's a total crap.

But I am sure if I made a post about feeding my dog/cat Royal Canin, you wouldn't bat an eye. But as soon as something is vegan, everyone is suddenly turning into sherlock holmes. 

What is really happening is that vegan pet food feels weird, and foreign, and radical so you are not even open to trying and seeing if it actually works. Because guess what, it won't kill you pet after they eat it once. The worst thing that could happen is that after a while they will have some nutritional deficiencies that might turn up in their blood work, which will then need to be adjusted properly by working together with a vet.

And this should be done regardless of what food they eat. You still need to visit the vet regularly, do health checkups, bloodwork, etc. But guess who is more likely to do it. Your average pet owner or a vegan who loves animals and who is going though all this effort of researching pet food, finding the appropriate diet, dealing with people being sceptical and judgemental of them, etc.?

And its not like your average pets is in a very good shape. Cancer, being overweight, kidney stones in cats, stomach issues, are all common problem on a regular diet. But nobody cares.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 12:27 PM by Something Funny

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Something Funny said:

But I am sure if I made a post about feeding my dog/cat Royal Canin, you wouldn't bat an eye. But as soon as something is vegan, everyone is suddenly turning into sherlock holmes. 

No it's just my common sense speaking that animals don't do well on synthetic food and veggies. I had a dog myself so I know. 

3 hours ago, Something Funny said:

How many times do I need to repeat that?

NOBODY is going around, putting a gun to people's heads and forcing them to be vegan. All that's done is: "Hi, would you consider switching to a vegan diet?". There are courses for beginner vegans, 30 day challenges, etc. The worst thing that could possibly happen to you is that a guy with a microphone will approach you on the street and ask you some questions about veganism.

You're missing the point. It's not about converting people to veganism it's about questioning their philosophy on life. As many studies there are that it's possible to live without meat, there are just as many that say it's not practicable to live without meat without health consequences. I've been vegetarian, mostly vegan myself and I know the consequences on health it has first hand. It's just not practicable long term. Maybe for some people that have a specific body type and have very high quality food available (mostly it's gone these days) But definitely not everyone. 

Edited yesterday at 02:22 PM by Salvijus