Challenge my motivation to eat a vegan diet

[Something Funny]

10 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

You will get that result regardless of causing it or not. Do you have some kind of...? Like this can't be real right?

If you're just trolling to make vegans look worse that's one thing. One person going vegan results in the exact same animal slaughter, so none of what you said is valid. Make new arguments that actually work.

9 hours ago, Something Funny said:

Do you understand the meaning of the verb "to result in"? Is your english just bad?

You can't say that going vegan "results in" animal slaughter, this is just grammatically and logically incorrect. 

And to address the actual logic behind this, this is the same dumb logic that can be said about anything:

- there is no reason to not support slave labour, because there will still be slave labour. 
- there is no reason to vote because your 1 vote doesn't matter

Yes, nothing is super impactful when it's just one person doing it. But the change needs to start somewhere. A million people going vegan totally has an impact. A million people starting to eat meat totally has an impact.

Besides, just not willing participate is also a valid reason to not do something. I don't participate at street take overs and littering, it's not like I do that expecting it to stop. I just don't want to participate in your idiocracy.
 

21 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

You're just making vegans look worse if you're being serious.

Which part of I DO NOT CALL MYSELF VEGAN do you not understand?

18 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

Really a weak analogy (doesn't really matter much either way) because loving every animal is not the same as "I love someone so I would directly prevent them from being tortured and killed."

What analogy? I didn't make an analogy, I stated my reason for why I don't want to eat animal products. That's my personal reason. No, I don't love them enough to go on a rescue mission for them. I never stated that I did, what are you talking about? I think there is actually some language barrier because this is just stupid.

26 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

As we have established there are 2 huge differences there.

 

I did not establish anything with you.

27 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

because you're saying that it's just subjective that you care about animals and are therefore going vegan. But there is nothing to attack there. That's just a subjective fact which doesn't get anyone anywhere. You literally agree with me.

I am not going vegan! And I didn't ask anyone to attack anything. I asked people to question and challenge my motivation to eat a vegan diet. Where did I use the word attack?

And no, I don't agree with you because you are full of shit.

29 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

If you're just stating something subjective then asking people to attack it is completely nonsensical.

 

Where? Where did I ask anyone to attack anything? I didn't. I didn't ask people for their opinion on veganism. I didn't criticise or attack people who eat meat. I simply asked people to question my motivation and hoped to have a deep spiritual and psychological discussion about resolve and motivating yourself in a conscious, positive way.

It's not my fault that none of you are capable of anything beside projecting their own bullshit onto my own words and wanting to share your mind about microbes and bacteria. @Sincerity is literally the only person who understood the assignment and actually questioned my reasons, eventually.

33 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

If you think that the argument you quoted is silly, then a meat eater can just tell you that caring about animals is silly. You think it's just self-evident bacteria are inferior? There are meat eaters who think animals are just self-evidently inferior.

Bacteria are not inferior. I've never said that. Once again, you are just putting whatever words are convenient for you in my mouth.

And as a matter of fact, there is no reason why even actual vegans should concern themselves with bacteria dying as this is not something that you can control as a human. Veganism is about reducing death and suffering as much as you can. Expecting people to try to reduce deaths of bacteria is absurd and is literally impossible. Because not matter what you do some will die. If you keep living - some will die, if you kill yourself - some will die. 

The fact that you think that this is some kind of gotcha point is hilarious. 

[Something Funny]

31 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

I am literally a bleeding heart for animals and you should be too tho. Vegans aren't hypocrties, I have the moral high ground even tho I choose actively to kill bacteria. No, this argument just can't be right, I can't answer it but it just can't be right, nobody could ever say caring about animals also makes you a bleeding heart.

Once again, literally said the opposite of everything I've been saying.

Either you are illiterate or dishonest, or a bit of both.

[ChrisZoZo]

4 hours ago, Salvijus said:

What are you thanking him for?

Shut up noob 

[Something Funny]

@ChrisZoZo chill please

[ChrisZoZo]

 

[ChrisZoZo]

It’s ok trying to trigger him so he can see the ego coming up

[numbersinarow]

3 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Do you understand the meaning of the verb "to result in"? Is your english just bad?

Ad hominem because you're an incredibly emotionally unstable example of someone arguing for veganism.

What RESULT do you get by going vegan? Reduced suffering. But still suffering. You've failed. And you can't make an argument against it.

After getting that previous absolute beatdown against your seemingly undeveloped brain I'm not sure why you keep going. I guess you're a glutton for punishment. I've demonstrated that all your arguments are wrong with practically zero effort and you immediately zero in on a technicality. Lmao.

You didn't even capitalize "English" on top.

5 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

- there is no reason to not support slave labour, because there will still be slave labour. 
- there is no reason to vote because your 1 vote doesn't matter

The fact that you can't understand that saying "this is stupid" and quoting it then going on to show you have no argument against it, doesn't actually mean that it's bad, it means that it's a good argument. Otherwise you would not spend 10 hours saying pointless shit, you would actually take just 10 seconds to argue against it.

You literally feel so defeated by me you have to fall back on appeals to popularity AKA thinking that someone reading this will somehow agree with you because they agree that you should vote? Your one vote won't change anything.

8 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Which part of I DO NOT CALL MYSELF VEGAN do you not understand?

This makes vegans look bad. I never claimed you're vegan.

8 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

And no, I don't agree with you because you are full of shit.

Where? Where did I ask anyone to attack anything?

Are you legally illiterate? "Attack" and "challenge" are so obviously being used in the same context here that I don't know why you would ever feel the need to type the above (unless you're literally going insane, which, yeah, I wouldn't blame you for thinking that.) Impressive.

And you do agree with me, you will see that if you read your own comment. You appealed to subjectivity riiiiight after saying that I'm not in the right for pointing out that there's no way to properly "challenge" a simple subjective statement.

11 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

What analogy? I didn't make an analogy, I stated my reason for why I don't want to eat animal products. That's my personal reason. No, I don't love them enough to go on a rescue mission for them. I never stated that I did, what are you talking about? I think there is actually some language barrier because this is just stupid.

This could literally be said about anyone in response to anything. It's beyond childish how utterly dishonest you are.

12 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Bacteria are not inferior. I've never said that. Once again, you are just putting whatever words are convenient for you in my mouth.

And as a matter of fact, there is no reason why even actual vegans should concern themselves with bacteria dying as this is not something that you can control as a human. Veganism is about reducing death and suffering as much as you can. Expecting people to try to reduce deaths of bacteria is absurd and is literally impossible. Because not matter what you do some will die. If you keep living - some will die, if you kill yourself - some will die. 

The fact that you think that this is some kind of gotcha point is hilarious. 

Oh so that literally doesn't address one thing I've said.

We are talking about bacteria because in an analogy, you don't need EVERYTHING to be the same, you just need it to make sense. For example if someone used an analogy about slavery about something mundane, and it worked, someone like you would presumably unironically not be able to get it, would lash at the person you are talking to in the most comical, ironic, nonsensical way imaginable and claim, in your own profound ignorance, that they're wrong because they brought up something which isn't as severe (doesn't have every conceivable factor of the thing it's trying to explain to you).

It doesn't actually need to be the case that you can change what happens to bacteria, but even on that point you're somehow wrong. You COULD end up transcending life and no longer killing those bacteria.

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that a meat eater could think about animals what you think about bacteria shows exactly what kind of person I'm wasting my time on.

Not ONE attempt to actually address this.

At least stick to one point instead of switching topics.

[numbersinarow]

So... notice how he keeps saying "THIS person engaged well" but then at the same time tries to discredit people who think that you can't actually challenge a subjective statement?

Right, flexing knowledge of basic logical... oh wait.

That actually tells you otherwise.

[Something Funny]

@numbersinarow Oh god, you are so dumb, it's not even funny.

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

What RESULT do you get by going vegan? Reduced suffering. But still suffering. You've failed. And you can't make an argument against it.

After getting that previous absolute beatdown against your seemingly undeveloped brain I'm not sure why you keep going. I guess you're a glutton for punishment. I've demonstrated that all your arguments are wrong with practically zero effort and you immediately zero in on a technicality. Lmao.

 

It's not a technicality. Your whole argument hinges on an assumption that I expect some "result". I've never said that. I've said that the reason I am going vegan is because I don't want to participate in animal murder and abuse.

And you can totally make an argument against it because what you are saying is simply factually incorrect and ridiculous. The idea that millions of people ceasing to consume something won't have any impact is dumb. Veganism does have an impact on reduction in meat consumption in developed countries as well as growth of plant based foods market. Even companies that produce meat products specifically, like sausaged, are now starting to branch out into plant based alternatives.

The only beatdown you've done was to your already struggling brain.

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

You didn't even capitalize "English" on top.

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

yes because that's much more important than being able to construct a senstence and comprehend what another person is saying...

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

You literally feel so defeated by me you have to fall back on appeals to popularity AKA thinking that someone reading this will somehow agree with you because they agree that you should vote? Your one vote won't change anything.

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

This is not an appeal to popularity. I don't care if 0 people who will read our discussion will agree with me. I am pointing out the logical fallacy in thinking that individual impact doesn't matter. It absolutely does. 

• In 2000, the US election was decided by 537 votes in Florida, making Bush win. 
• 1876 U.S. Presidential Election: Rutherford B. Hayes became the 19th President of the United States after securing 185 electoral votes to Samuel Tilden's 184. A single contested electoral vote played a key role in the outcome
• Andrew Johnson’s Impeachment (1868): The U.S. Senate fell one vote short of the two-thirds majority needed to convict and remove President Andrew Johnson. This single vote preserved his presidency

I wonder how many people sat at home thinking that their vote won't matter anyway.
 

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

Are you legally illiterate? "Attack" and "challenge" are so obviously being used in the same context here that I don't know why you would ever feel the need to type the above (unless you're literally going insane, which, yeah, I wouldn't blame you for thinking that.) Impressive.

You cannot claim that their are used in the same context here because this is my thread. I define the context of this conversation. I've literally asked for a specific thing: questioning my motivation to make me go deeper and understand it better.

It's not my fault that you are derailing it.

Are you also going to go to my fashion advise thread and start arguing with me about the benefits of wearing clothes vs being naked?
 

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

And you do agree with me, you will see that if you read your own comment. You appealed to subjectivity riiiiight after saying that I'm not in the right for pointing out that there's no way to properly "challenge" a simple subjective statement.

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

Yes, I agree with your point on subjectivity, not how you use it.

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

This could literally be said about anyone in response to anything. It's beyond childish how utterly dishonest you are.

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

It was not said in response to anything! It was literally the main topic of this thread! I've started the whole thread with it! I didn't start this topic to argue with retards like you about veganism!
 

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

Oh so that literally doesn't address one thing I've said.

 

What are you talking about, I literally went addressing your post by paragraph.
 

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

We are talking about bacteria because in an analogy, you don't need EVERYTHING to be the same, you just need it to make sense.

But it doesn't it doesn't make sense. Because it is a dumb analogy.
 

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

It doesn't actually need to be the case that you can change what happens to bacteria, but even on that point you're somehow wrong.

Yes it does. Because veganism is about doing things that you can actually control.
 

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

You COULD end up transcending life and no longer killing those bacteria.

Oh yeah? Please do that, I will be right after you.
 

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that a meat eater could think about animals what you think about bacteria shows exactly what kind of person I'm wasting my time on.

 

But we do not think about bacteria in the same way. Because these are two fundamentally different situations.

You can control eating animal. You can't control eating bacteria.

Animals suffer. Bacteria doesn't suffer.

Meat eater keeps eating meat because he is not invested into animal wellfare enough to stop eating meat. Vegan doesn't stop killing bacteria because it is literally an impossible thing to do.

You analogy sucks. 
 

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

if someone used an analogy about slavery about something mundane

If you used an analogy about slavery, it would actually be better.

50 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

Not ONE attempt to actually address this.

What is there to address? On top of it being a dumb analogy, that's not worthy of addressing, I've also never argued that other people should stop eating meat. THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD.

You can it two cows per day. You can drink your own piss. You can think about animals the same way I think about bacteria. I don't give a fuck. I can't control how many cows you eat. I can only control my actions. Which is what this thread was about: how do I learn to better control my actions so that they align with my values.
 

47 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

So... notice how he keeps saying "THIS person engaged well" but then at the same time tries to discredit people who think that you can't actually challenge a subjective statement?

Right, flexing knowledge of basic logical... oh wait.

That actually tells you otherwise.

I am not asking you to challenge a subjective statement. This is something that you've came up with on your own. 

I am trying to "discredit" you because you are to dumb to even grasp what this whole thread is about.

I was asking people to challenge my motivation. And look, he did, he did challenge my motivation by saying that it seems to be external vs internal, and that it requires me to think about negative things like animal slaughter vs being grounded in something positive, and is in general kind of weak.

SO I GUESS IT IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO DO?

Edited Sunday at 09:45 PM by Something Funny

[Something Funny]

11 hours ago, numbersinarow said:

And vegans kill plants and the bacteria in their body, they aren't willing to case living in order to make their body stop killing bacteria. That argument is invalid to them. Well, to a meat eater, you apply the same logic to animals, and to them, that argument is invalid.

You are comparing:

a) a person not willing to stop eating meat because it will be inconvenient for them
b) a person not willing to literally kill themselves to save some bacteria while killing other bacteria

Amazing analogy, just brilliant.

In case with human body and bacteria, it is more similar to relationship between humans and their planet. In this case the body is the planet for bacteria. And them dying a natural cycle of life that the "planet" has no conscious control over.

Humans and other animals in this scenario would be bacteria killing other bacteria.

But I guess somehow this was a good point in your mind...

Happy now? I addressed it.

Edited Sunday at 10:13 PM by Something Funny

[Something Funny]

@numbersinarow If you are referring to the harmful bacteria from the outside world than a better analogy would be humans killing another humans for self defence. Just like a human that doesn't eat other people, will still kill another person if they attack them.

Nowhere does it say that veganism is about sacrificing your life for the sake of every other living being. 

[Jannes]

2 hours ago, numbersinarow said:

What RESULT do you get by going vegan? Reduced suffering. But still suffering. You've failed. And you can't make an argument against it.

 

[Rigel]

I was born in a rural family of hunters & I can tell you that they would also say they “love animals”. There’s a sort of reverence for the significance of ending a life to sustain your own. It’s the brutal reality of survival. I think that is sound and I do appreciate consuming the result of that. That being said, I haven’t bought factory produced meats in ages. They are few and far more expensive but there are ways to source humane meat without killing it yourself.

Plant world is fabulous in its own right.

[Salvijus]

9 hours ago, ChrisZoZo said:

It’s ok trying to trigger him so he can see the ego coming up

True but that's not there real reason why you've been prompted to respond in the way that you do. 

Edited Monday at 05:53 AM by Salvijus

[ChrisZoZo]

@Something Funny have to not interact with some people they are too allergic to truth. @salvjius is cool tho. 
 

It’s amazing to see a lack of people’s application of Leo’s teachings. ITS NOT EASY TO apply I want to make that clear. What people often forget is that when you have a bad reaction is may be because your wrong. So when meat eaters get mad it’s sometimes because they violently defend the lie because an aspect of them know’s that meat will have to be dropped is they agree with you. 

Edited Monday at 10:58 AM by ChrisZoZo

[Vynce]

On 17/11/2024 at 4:29 PM, Salvijus said:

That doesn't make any change to the points I was making. 

Of course. It defeats your whole point. You said its impossible to not kill animals. And if you mean with animals mammalian animals, birds and fish, I say it entirely possible to avoid killing even one animal in an entire lifetime. 

Its just that your worldview and personal agenda sees killing animals as some kind of necessity. Finding some sneaky arguments, why its ok to do so. 

Bull-shit. 

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Vynce said:

Of course. It defeats your whole point. You said its impossible to not kill animals. And if you mean with animals mammalian animals, birds and fish, I say it entirely possible to avoid killing even one animal in an entire lifetime. 

Its just that your worldview and personal agenda sees killing animals as some kind of necessity. Finding some sneaky arguments, why its ok to do so. 

Bull-shit. 

Killing is killing. Once you've justified killing even a microbe, knowingly or unknowingly you've justified killing to live in general. My points were:

1. Killing is unavoidable in order to live. 

2. Eliminating meat entirely is not practicable. 

3. It's good to avoid unnecessary killing. 

Your input makes no difference to these points. 

Edited Tuesday at 03:58 PM by Salvijus

[Sugarcoat]

Why do you think killing animals is wrong, if it’s done in a quick and basically painless way? Such as with certain organic grass fed animal products 

[Something Funny]

2 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Why do you think killing animals is wrong, if it’s done in a quick and basically painless way? Such as with certain organic grass fed animal products 

1. Is it okay if I kill you in a quick and painless way?

2. Can you please explain what is this magical method of killing animals painlessly and quickly and give me an example of companies that do it this way?

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Something Funny said:

1. Is it okay if I kill you in a quick and painless way?

2. Can you please explain what is this magical method of killing animals painlessly and quickly and give me an example of companies that do it this way?

I see your point. 
 

I don’t know which companies do it, and exactly which method. But I’ve heard that organic and grass fed means the circumstances for the animals are better. And in Sweden where I live there are certain regulations around how to kill the animals.