Challenge my motivation to eat a vegan diet

[ChrisZoZo]

On 16/11/2024 at 7:19 AM, Salvijus said:

Vegans kill more animals than meat eaters.

Don’t look up what they are doing in Brazil for cattle. 

[ChrisZoZo]

On 16/11/2024 at 9:06 AM, Salvijus said:

To what extent is the only question.

They have done studies on this if you can be bothered looking it up.

[Something Funny]

@Buck Edwards I mean... sorry, but this is just really frustrating. And I am tired of wasting my effort on writing down elaborate arguments when you either ignore them, or don't want to understand them, or actually don't understand them...

4 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

shows how little empathy you have for anyone at all, let alone animals.

Nice gaslighting. 

[Something Funny]

@ChrisZoZo thank you

[Vynce]

On 16/11/2024 at 9:21 AM, Salvijus said:

It still makes the vegan argument crumble that killing is unjustifiable because you can't avoid killing. The only question becomes, to what extent killing is appropriate and to what extent it becomes excessive and wasteful? And who said animal meat crosses the line of what's appropriate and inappropriate? 

Of course you can avoid killing. Have you ever lived with a self-sustaining homestead? With ones own garden? Maybe some worms or flies are killed, nothing more.

[Something Funny]

@Vynce brace yourself, whining about dead bacteria incoming.

[Salvijus]

5 hours ago, Something Funny said:

@Vynce brace yourself, whining about dead bacteria incoming.

But I thought we were in agreement with each other, lol what a backstabber

 

[Salvijus]

5 hours ago, Vynce said:

Of course you can avoid killing. Have you ever lived with a self-sustaining homestead? With ones own garden? Maybe some worms or flies are killed, nothing more.

That doesn't make any change to the points I was making. 

Edited Sunday at 04:32 PM by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

6 hours ago, Something Funny said:

@ChrisZoZo thank you

What are you thanking him for? As if my points got debunked or smth. But my points remain undisputed. 

1. You can't live without killing. 

2. Eliminating meat entirely is not practicable. 

3. It's good to avoid unnecessary and unconscious killing. 

Edited Sunday at 04:48 PM by Salvijus

[Basman]

OK, I'm going to go off since you want to be challenged apparently...

Apparently plants feel pain. If so, do you not have compassion for plants? If you eat plants how can that be? Likewise, do you vacuum spiders in your apartment? Do you feel the same compassion towards spiders? Or how do you cope with the fact that your immune system annihilates millions of microbes a day? Do microbes not have a right to life equally as all other life? What makes a microbe less of a life than a beloved pet?

Assuming your a typical vegan, why is your veganism so selective about what you care about? To which degree are you compassionate just because pigs and cows are cute, and if so, is you compassion would evidently be deeply biased and unprincipled.

[Something Funny]

39 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

But I thought we were in agreement with each other, lol what a backstabber

 

I was referring to numbersinarow's comment, mostly.

33 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

What are you thanking him for?

It was a relief to see someone be on my side and bring up some good points.

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

I was referring to numbersinarow's comment, mostly.

It was a relief to see someone be on my side and bring up some good points.

Okay I understand. 🪷 

[Something Funny]

@Basman not another question about plants and microbes, please. You are killing me guys. Read all my other responses to that.

22 minutes ago, Basman said:

Likewise, do you vacuum spiders in your apartment? Do you feel the same compassion towards spiders?

Sometimes I do, sometimes I try to do my best to carry them out instead. I do feel compassion towards them. And considering how I'm just trying to implement mostly vegan lifestyle, I just treat it as one of the points I am working on.

25 minutes ago, Basman said:

Assuming your a typical vegan

I've said in my original post that I am not a vegan. Do you guys only read titles or something?

26 minutes ago, Basman said:

veganism so selective about what you care about

I select what I care about based on carefully contemplating it. It not based on cuteness, it's based on how can I realistically minimise the suffering I cause in my life. I am definitely not okay with meat and livestock industries because they are just horrible.

I don't care about deaths of bacteria killed by my body because I do not believe they experience any suffering, and even if they did, there is nothing I can do apart from dying, which will also kill a ton of cells and bacteria that used to live in my body. So this is a dumb point to make overall, it's like spending your life worrying about a blackhole appearing and sucking up the earth.

For plants, please READ my previous answers.

At the moment of starting this thread I was okay with ethically sourced wool and beeswax, but since I've been doing a lot of learning in the meantime, I am not so sure about those anymore. They seem shady and I need to keep researching them to come to a final decision.

Now I have a question for you. Are you okay with eating people? Assuming that their life is not more valuable than lives of pigs and cows, and that you are not like those vegan hypocrites, with their selective compassion, you should be okay with eating people, right?

[Jannes]

@Something Funny I argued for veganism quite a lot on this forum, it's a waste of time and energy and seems mostly counterproductive. I agree with all your points though. 

Maybe build vegan staple meals you can do easily. When you are used to it it doesn't take any will power anymore to maintain. Consider doing vegetarianism though, you have way more options especially when going out and you might inspire more people to do it because its less "radical".

[Something Funny]

@Jannes Thank you. I am not okay with milk, fish, and eggs so vegetarianism is not an option for me.

 

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

Now I have a question for you. Are you okay with eating people? Assuming that their life is not more valuable than lives of pigs and cows, and that you are not like those vegan hypocrites, with their selective compassion, you should be okay with eating people, right?

No, because I have a human bias and I don't think it would be practically functional. Its fine to be biased and a hypocrite if your honest.

Problem is that vegans tend to be ethically inconsistent with their logic. If the premise is that you can't eat animals because its wrong to take a life then you must apply that standard to all life for it to be true (which to a certain extent isn't physically possible). Now, if the premise is that you don't want to eat animals because you feel sorry for farm animals specifically, then your in the clear. Its a subtle difference.

[Something Funny]

14 minutes ago, Basman said:

Problem is that vegans tend to be ethically inconsistent with their logic. If the premise is that you can't eat animals because its wrong to take a life then you must apply that standard to all life for it to be true (which to a certain extent isn't physically possible). Now, if the premise is that you don't want to eat animals because you feel sorry for farm animals specifically, then your in the clear. Its a subtle difference.

This is a common pitfall for many vegans who try to use ethics to justify veganism, yes. But then basically every philosophical system has its limitations. Just watch Leo's videos on science, post modernism, religion, spiral dynamics stages. They all have some kind of philosophical pitfall.

[numbersinarow]

9 hours ago, Something Funny said:

This sentence doesn't make sense because going vegan does not result in animal slaughter continuing. You could say that one person going vegan will not stop animal slaughter. But you have to be completely divorced from logic to say that veganism RESULTS in animal slaughter continuing...

You will get that result regardless of causing it or not. Do you have some kind of...? Like this can't be real right? You're just making vegans look worse if you're being serious.

If you're just trolling to make vegans look worse that's one thing. One person going vegan results in the exact same animal slaughter, so none of what you said is valid. Make new arguments that actually work.

9 hours ago, Something Funny said:

And I didn't make that proposition. But if I did, it would make total sense because yes, if you love someone you don't want to harm or kill them. It's that simple. 

I love how you are argument is self defeating but you are not even able to realise it. You are saying to how there is no objective way to decide that bacteria is inferior to animals, but then if that's true then buy the same logic there is no reason why death is objectively worse than being alive. And there is no reason why killing is objectively wrong. Or why suffering is objectively bad.

So if nothing is objectively bad, than there is no reason why anyone HAS to care about anything. I don't HAVE to care about killing as a whole. I don't HAVE to care for killing at all.

So how do I decide what do I care about? Based on love, emotions, and personal preference. And based on this I've decided that I care about animal suffering and death more than I care about bacteria.

And I am not going to post why going vegan actually reduce the amount of plants we consume for the third time, it's not my fault you guys can't read.

***

I love how vegans try to logic and reason, trying to reduce the suffering and impact they cause and people like you operate based on childish arguments like "Vegans are not willing to die to save the bacteria, so they are hypocrites". What a joke.

Really a weak analogy (doesn't really matter much either way) because loving every animal is not the same as "I love someone so I would directly prevent them from being tortured and killed."

As we have established there are 2 huge differences there.

Of course there is no reason why anything is objectively wrong. You in fact don't have to care about anything.

Lol so you literally just massively contradicted yourself and called yourself someone without 1 brain cell, because you're saying that it's just subjective that you care about animals and are therefore going vegan. But there is nothing to attack there. That's just a subjective fact which doesn't get anyone anywhere. You literally agree with me.

If you're just stating something subjective then asking people to attack it is completely nonsensical.

If you think that the argument you quoted is silly, then a meat eater can just tell you that caring about animals is silly. You think it's just self-evident bacteria are inferior? There are meat eaters who think animals are just self-evidently inferior.

[numbersinarow]

8 hours ago, Something Funny said:

@Vynce brace yourself, whining about dead bacteria incoming. I am literally a bleeding heart for animals and you should be too tho. Vegans aren't hypocrties, I have the moral high ground even tho I choose actively to kill bacteria. No, this argument just can't be right, I can't answer it but it just can't be right, nobody could ever say caring about animals also makes you a bleeding heart.

Okay.

[numbersinarow]

8 hours ago, Vynce said:

Of course you can avoid killing. Have you ever lived with a self-sustaining homestead? With ones own garden? Maybe some worms or flies are killed, nothing more.

You are wrong and your body kills bacteria. Consuming other things to live is a fundamental fact of life. If you want to have subjective standards for what you care about, the way the typical vegan does, that's okay. Keep it to yourself (respectfully.)