Actualized contradictions

[Javfly33]

When I say that the ultimate goal of the Self is Liberation from limited existence some of you guys say:

"no, you can not liberate yourself from existing, reality is unavoidable. God has no other thing but to dream. Cycles are inevitable."

And then when I tell them:

"well, Ok, from your view cycles are inevitable, then I guess you are OK with another cycle, right? Ready for another incarnation once this body is no longer usable, right?"

Then They say:

"reincarnation is a belief. Where is the proof?" 

 

So let see if I get this thing straight: You don´t want to reincarnate but you don´t want to liberate yourself from more existence either...what's the plan then?

IMO, It would be more honest to say "I am not ready for the unlimited yet". Instead of straight up denying it. You don´t have to ruin the plans for the people that might be ready to pass to the other side...

Edited November 15 by Javfly33

[James123]

@Javfly33 the problem is people just want to prove themselves as they know something. Which is completely opposite from the Truth. 

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

well, Ok, from your view cycles are inevitable, then I guess you are OK with another cycle, right? Ready for another incarnation once this body is no longer usable, right?"

All mystics talk about reincarnation but I don't understand it. Who incarnates? All the incarnations are apparent movement in the existence, then all are the same substance, what you ultimately are, then the question: what happens next? Is a question that happens in this incarnation, but from an absolute perspective all the infinite incarnations are happening now and really they are not happening, are an appearance. 

[ChrisZoZo]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Javfly33 the problem is people just want to prove themselves as they know something. Which is completely opposite from the Truth. 

What, never.

[James123]

@ChrisZoZo maybe, you haven't push them button?

[ChrisZoZo]

@Javfly33 be careful you are mixing up different people. With what they say. If you see contradictions from someone pointed out.

I can see what you are saying from what Leo says. He said that you are god and you create a universe to live in it and you keep doing this over and over again. Then he would denied a soul exist or at lease would question it. So he would say we incarcerate but would happen but would disagree (in a sense) in the mechanics of how happens. 

[ChrisZoZo]

4 minutes ago, James123 said:

ChrisZoZo maybe, you haven't push them button?

Pushed and been pushed. I need a lot of work but interacting with people gives opportunities to train the ego. In fact, I was wanting to make a post on it.

[James123]

Just now, ChrisZoZo said:

I need a lot of work but interacting with people gives opportunities to train the ego. In fact, I was wanting to make a post on it.

Sure, go for it. 

[ChrisZoZo]

16 minutes ago, James123 said:

Sure, go for it. 

Lol ok I will later.

[Javfly33]

14 hours ago, James123 said:

@Javfly33 the problem is people just want to prove themselves as they know something. Which is completely opposite from the Truth. 

@James123 completely agree, intelectual knowing is opposite to Truth

 

13 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

All mystics talk about reincarnation but I don't understand it. Who incarnates? 

Obviously if you are more than your body, whatever that is, that incarnates.

Maybe incarnation is a confusing world.

Maybe you could think It in terms of you are using a body and a mind with a certain level of Intelligence.

If you would be using a Cat body that would mean you are not in an advanced level of Intelligence. Because the question of freedom wouldnt even be there.

But you have a human mechanism where you can contemplate what is Reality, that means you are in a certain high level of evolution.

Im not saying Liberation means you destroy reality, im just saying you understand this body and mind and just limited tools and your present experience is beyond this two tools. If that happens i would say Liberation has happened. 

 

13 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

but from an absolute perspective all the infinite incarnations are happening now and really they are not happening, are an appearance. 

Is clear there is an intelligence in the design. I dont understand what you mean by "from an absolute perspective". The reality is you prefer to incarnate as a human than as a dog. 

You might say you dont care because from the absolute perspective is all one but if I tell you from tomorrow you Will be a slave to a human and you Will be kept in a leash in exchange he Will give you food, Will you Accept?

So you value your hard earned freedom, even Though sometimes It is challenging to handle this freedom with a human mind.

So there is a mature intelligence there Who Will not go back to being a dog in the Next Life. Thats for sure.

 

12 hours ago, ChrisZoZo said:

@Javfly33 be careful you are mixing up different people. With what they say. If you see contradictions from someone pointed out.

I can see what you are saying from what Leo says. He said that you are god and you create a universe to live in it and you keep doing this over and over again. Then he would denied a soul exist or at lease would question it. So he would say we incarcerate but would happen but would disagree (in a sense) in the mechanics of how happens. 

I dont understand what you mean. 

[ChrisZoZo]

 

Leo suggests that you are essentially God, creating a universe to live in repeatedly. However, he questions or denies the existence of a soul, at least in the traditional sense. He acknowledges           re-living as a concept but seems to have a different perspective on how it actually works or its underlying mechanics.

 

[ChrisZoZo]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

dont understand what you mean. 

Leo suggests that you are essentially God, creating a universe to live in repeatedly. However, he questions or denies the existence of a soul, at least in the traditional sense. He acknowledges           re-living as a concept but seems to have a different perspective on how it actually works or its underlying mechanics

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

The reality is you prefer to incarnate as a human than as a dog. 

It's not that you incarnate as a human, it's that you are a human. If you were a dog, then you are a dog. Both are the reality, but not you taking a form, because the reality is not you, you are the human or the dog, then when the human dissapear, you don't remains without body and incarnates again, the reality remains, and you dissapear 

[Javfly33]

29 minutes ago, ChrisZoZo said:

Leo suggests that you are essentially God, creating a universe to live in repeatedly. However, he questions or denies the existence of a soul, at least in the traditional sense. He acknowledges           re-living as a concept but seems to have a different perspective on how it actually works or its underlying mechanics

 

I know that, but im not getting what you are trying to say with It 🧐

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's not that you incarnate as a human, it's that you are a human. If you were a dog, then you are a dog. Both are the reality, but not you taking a form, because the reality is not you, you are the human or the dog, then when the human dissapear, you don't remains without body and incarnates again, the reality remains, and you dissapear 

A human exists as a concept, what else could It be?

Is an identity, is as if my culture has the ritual of putting belts on babies, and so through your whole Life you are wearing this belt, you shower with this belt, you go to bed with the belt.

If at some point you think the belt is you, or at least you include the belt as part of you. Then identification has become reality.

 

Edited November 16 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

24 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

 

I know that, but im not getting what you are trying to say with It 🧐

A human exists as a concept, what else could It be?

Is an identity, is as if my culture has the ritual of putting belts on babies, and so through your whole Life you are wearing this belt, you shower with this belt, you go to bed with the belt.

If at some point you think the belt is you, or at least you include the belt as part of you. Then identification has become reality.

 

I don't mean the concept of human, I mean this experience that we call human. If this experience dissapear, you dissapear, you are this experience, a relative creation

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

I don't mean the concept of human, I mean this experience that we call human.

There is not an experience of Being a human, there is an experience of limitation due to identification to so called body which you call human.

Whatever I am is the same with a human or without a human, with birth or death.

 

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

If this experience dissapear, you dissapear, you are this experience, a relative creation

No, I am not this experience nor anything you can know or describe.

If something can disappear then in the first place that was already relative.

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

If something can disappear then in the first place that was already relative.

Yes, the you is relative, without relative experience there is not you. Then, who reincarnates when the relative experience dissapear?

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, the you is relative, without relative experience there is not you. Then, who reincarnates when the relative experience dissapear?

The real you or the absolute.

For me is very clear:

Lets say tomorrow (I Hope not lol) i fall off a cliff and my body is completely ruined, It can not function anymore.

Meanwhile in your case nothing happens to you. 

There is a reality or substance as you call It, which is experience your body and mind, is having your relative experience.

In my case the relative experience can not continue, so either It does not continue or It finds another relative experience (another body).

As you see the options are very clear, relative experience continues or It doesn't. 

Yet some of you guys want to deny both, that It can not stop also that It can not reincarnate.

Basically you guys logic Only holds if death wouldnt exist. But relative death very much exist, so obviously you guys Will have to eventually face this question.

 

See just because you Keep having an experience, does not mean lot of people die everyday. The reality that is giving Life to those bodies, when the body is gone, that reality continues, so the question of Liberation or reincarnation naturally appears. 

[Breakingthewall]

53 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

In my case the relative experience can not continue, so either It does not continue or It finds another relative experience (another body).

I think that simply your experience stops and that's it. The reality is not your experience, your experience is a relative appearance, then when it stops there is nothing to reincarnate, because all the others infinite experiences are that reincarnation. 

[CoolDreamThanks]

@Javfly33 I had the same realization a while ago. I asked Leo: how do you plan to get enlightened and break the cycle of birth and death? 
 

He said death is enlightenment. 
 

What a profoundly grave mistake. A single false belief will enslave him to time.