Actualized contradictions

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

@Javfly33 I had the same realization a while ago. I asked Leo: how do you plan to get enlightened and break the cycle of birth and death? 
 

He said death is enlightenment. 
 

What a profoundly grave mistake. A single false belief will enslave him to time. 
 

 

Yeah man like honestly I am no Guru I have no 100% sure what happens after death but precisely because of that, I know there is more clarity to gain, absolute clarity about one's destiny.

This thing about leaving things to guessing, I think is a mistake that fundamentally comes from not having complete realization.

I intuit there is things at stake in this life, steps that if you take or do not take has existencial consequences on your future destiny. 

At the end of the day, there are consequences in this reality, If tomorrow I punch a police man in the street surely there will be a consequence. In a similar way; I intuit there are consequences on a bigger scale. 

I don´t think most people are conscious how astronomical big this 'game' is.

Is not just about your life, is about multiple lives, multiple dimensions and multiple wardrobes of memory and the complex configuration Infinity works. 

I absolutely deeply skeptical of all this reductionary/simplistic narrative people like to tell. I don´t buy it. I don't buy one bit of it.  

Edited November 16 by Javfly33

[Javfly33]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

, because all the others infinite experiences are that reincarnation. 

@Breakingthewall Let me put it another way, maybe like this you can understand what I mean:

Lets say Tomorrow I have a baby, that baby has certain qualities of me and of his mom, of the past genetic memory of my family and her mom's family, etc, and also of the quality of the city we live (atmosphere influence, etc).

For Reality to allow this, for Reality to be able to hold this qualities, there has to exist the volition and willingness to Reality to do it, Reality must have the 'door' open to be that and not just itself. It must remain attached to a certain way of being.

Whatever the state of Reality was before that baby being born, it was conducive and 'ready' to take the form of a baby.

When reincarnation is finished, that means Reality has stopped the identification to the configuration no possibility of creating anything else there is possible. 

 

Instead of understanding reality as 'beings' (like 'past lives') think it like this:

Infinite fragmentation, where each fragment has a unique dualistic configuration, necessary for all pieces to be unique and at the same time the opposite of all minus itself, which perfectly will define what relatively that reality will manifest as.

When the fragment realises itself, then the configuration loses its grip on it, because the identification was what prevented the Realization. And, of course, Since the configuration itself is what made the fragment a fragment, instead of all fragments, which is what it really Is. 

Edited November 16 by Javfly33

[Atb210201]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Yeah man like honestly I am no Guru I have no 100% sure what happens after death but precisely because of that, I know there is more clarity to gain, absolute clarity about one's destiny.

This thing about leaving things to guessing, I think is a mistake that fundamentally comes from not having complete realization.

I intuit there is things at stake in this life, steps that if you take or do not take has existencial consequences on your future destiny. 

At the end of the day, there are consequences in this reality, If tomorrow I punch a police man in the street surely there will be a consequence. In a similar way; I intuit there are consequences on a bigger scale. 

I don´t think most people are conscious how astronomical big this 'game' is.

Is not just about your life, is about multiple lives, multiple dimensions and multiple wardrobes of memory and the complex configuration Infinity works. 

I absolutely deeply skeptical of all this reductionary/simplistic narrative people like to tell. I don´t buy it. I don't buy one bit of it.  

I loved the way you've put into words the immense magnitude of it all with strong conviction like that.

This life thing is no joke.

It's fucking big and has a designer behind it all.

Edited November 16 by Atb210201

[ChrisZoZo]

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I know that, but im not getting what you are trying to say with It 🧐

I agree with what u say. Thats what I am trying to sat on it.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

When reincarnation is finished, that means Reality has stopped the identification to the configuration no possibility of creating anything else there is possible.

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

 

7 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

 

Then the reality will stop creating forms for ever? How? If there are now they will be always, they have to be infinite. 

But the thing that I don't understand about reincarnation is not that, is how you, the you that appear due the experience, is going to reincarnate. This you will dissapear when the experience finish. The reality is "behind" all the experiences, that's what you are, the experience is circumstance, then how this experience is going to reincarnate in another experience?

[Razard86]

On 11/15/2024 at 4:30 PM, ChrisZoZo said:

@Javfly33 be careful you are mixing up different people. With what they say. If you see contradictions from someone pointed out.

I can see what you are saying from what Leo says. He said that you are god and you create a universe to live in it and you keep doing this over and over again. Then he would denied a soul exist or at lease would question it. So he would say we incarcerate but would happen but would disagree (in a sense) in the mechanics of how happens. 

This is a common problem on here. People make claims but don't specifically point them out, it distracts from the discussion. Hopefully we can all do a better job of pushing conversations forward. 

 

On 11/15/2024 at 2:38 PM, Javfly33 said:

When I say that the ultimate goal of the Self is Liberation from limited existence some of you guys say:

"no, you can not liberate yourself from existing, reality is unavoidable. God has no other thing but to dream. Cycles are inevitable."

And then when I tell them:

"well, Ok, from your view cycles are inevitable, then I guess you are OK with another cycle, right? Ready for another incarnation once this body is no longer usable, right?"

Then They say:

"reincarnation is a belief. Where is the proof?" 

 

So let see if I get this thing straight: You don´t want to reincarnate but you don´t want to liberate yourself from more existence either...what's the plan then?

IMO, It would be more honest to say "I am not ready for the unlimited yet". Instead of straight up denying it. You don´t have to ruin the plans for the people that might be ready to pass to the other side...

Jav are you saying you are done with incarnation forever? You do realize....forever is a LONGGG TIME.....really think you can hold out incarnating forever? Or are you talking about Earth? Aiming for the astral realm or something?

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Razard86 said:

.forever is a LONGGG TIME

Forever without experience is an instant out of the time. It's impossible to imagine, because it's enlightenment. But in this instant out of the time infinite experiences appears, apparently. Then , what is reincarnation? Really I don't understand it, but all the mystics talk about it. 

[creativepursuit]

15 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

how this experience is going to reincarnate in another experience?

In Vedic tradition human body = physical body + subtle body + causal body (merits and demerits). To answer you, (and I am also just guessing) most likely it is the causal body that reincarnates. Because, at the absolute level, the causality doesn't exist, so when the causal body reaches that state it merges back in absolute.

Edited November 17 by creativepursuit

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, creativepursuit said:

In Vedic tradition human body = physical body + subtle body + causal body (merits and demerits). To answer you, (and I am also just guessing) most likely it is the causal body that reincarnates. Because, at the absolute level, the causality doesn't exist, so when the causal body reaches that state it merges back in absolute.

the causal body has stored karma in it, that encapsulates the bliss body and so called Soul or Atman (you allotted Life aspect within You), this is all that goes with You, so its an evolutionary process.  Why this is the way it is I do not Know nor have I heard or read of any explanation, I only guess that Absolute contains all Potential and Possibility, via an Aspect of Oneness/Completeness, so therefore we have to exist somewhere, duality has to exist somewhere, Consciousness has to exist and be experienced/expressed somewhere, I think that somewhere is here...so we play out this game of duality, karma, Consciousness, Free Will, Embodiment, etc so Absolute can experience itself, as well its an expression of a certain Potential in Existence..

[creativepursuit]

I don't think anyone can really answer your question about reincarnation. Tbh, when I think about it, do we know if Anand Mayi Maa reincarnated despite being devoted to God her whole life? No. Do we know if Sadhguru's wife who willingly left her body, reincarnated or not? No. Do we know if Osho, who remembered all his past lives and spent all his life teaching spiritual stuff and getting into scams later, was incarnated or not? No.

But, from my limited understanding, I can tell that, you will keep reincarnating until you have no desire left, worldly or other-worldly, even a desire for liberation is a desire.

[Ishanga]

5 minutes ago, creativepursuit said:

I don't think anyone can really answer your question about reincarnation. Tbh, when I think about it, do we know if Anand Mayi Maa reincarnated despite being devoted to God her whole life? No. Do we know if Sadhguru's wife who willingly left her body, reincarnated or not? No. Do we know if Osho, who remembered all his past lives and spent all his life teaching spiritual stuff and getting into scams later, was incarnated or not? No.

But, from my limited understanding, I can tell that, you will keep reincarnating until you have no desire left, worldly or other-worldly, even a desire for liberation is a desire.

An Answer means a Conclusion of Sorts is being made.. When Ppl like Sadhguru or other Mystics/Guru share their stories it is not for one to then Believe in it, nor is one too Dis Believe in it, its for one to be made Curious, they should become Curious as to why such a person would say such things, then via that Curiosity they Seek to Know, and for True Seeking to happen one has to drop all ideologies and concepts and philosophies developed about Life and Reality and truly Seek, this opens up Your Willingness and Receptivity to aspects of Life and that will lead You down the right path to eventually Knowing in a way, Liberation and Enlightenment for sure..

[Javfly33]

6 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Jav are you saying you are done with incarnation forever? You do realize....forever is a LONGGG TIME.....really think you can hold out incarnating forever? Or are you talking about Earth? Aiming for the astral realm or something?

In how I understand things, there is no such a thing as 'forever'. 

People usually assume this Reality is all there is, but only because we haven´t seen more Realities that does not mean they haven´t exist in the past or that they won't exist. 

But is true there are rules in this Reality, there is an end to 'this one', this particular dream is happening on Planet earth, and so on.

If you ask me, I personally would love to stay in the anandamaya kosha for a long time before dissolving completely.

In the Bliss body there is still a very subtle sense of existing, even if there is no body or mind anymore, there is still is very light sense of existing, so is not completely death. 

So I can imagine after a lot of time staying there the Consciousness would completely let go from that too and then what I call 'going back completely home' would happen.

From that, I honestly have no idea. Since time does not exist there I guess it doesn't matter if 8 o 8000 thousands years or a million years pass. At one point probably something new would happen (or not?). 

 

18 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then the reality will stop creating forms for ever? How? If there are now they will be always, they have to be infinite. 

I would never say forever. I only am focused on this one existence or dream. There is a finish line for this one.

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But the thing that I don't understand about reincarnation is not that, is how you, the you that appear due the experience, is going to reincarnate. This you will dissapear when the experience finish. The reality is "behind" all the experiences, that's what you are, the experience is circumstance,

Of course the relative you does not reincarnate. That is gone but that Is the illusion I think we agree on that.

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then how this experience is going to reincarnate in another experience?

Because is not another experience. Is the same. You just change clothing.

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The reality is "behind" all the experiences

The reality is behind all experiences but the Reality has volition or tendencies to maintain a certain experience, right? 

Why you still have a body? Clearly something is going on there, there is a preference in You (the Reality) to maintain a certain configuration if not you would suddenly would become 'everything'.

Yet you are not being Barack Obama now, don´t you? 

There is a difference in mentally knowing that you are behind all experiences and LITERALLY being behind all experiences.

To literally being behind all experiences you 100% need to lose the body and absolutely everything that you consider 'you' that is limited. There is no other way.

Clearly you as Reality are now being in a certain way, regardless what intellectually you tell yourself. 

 

Edited November 17 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

@Javfly33 if the reincarnation finish and the reality is no form, there is no time, then if in any moment the form starts again, it's immediately after than the last incarnation, because between both there is not time. Then, right now it's the no time, and inside is the appearance of an experience that happens in time, always, because there are not Limits to prevent it 

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, creativepursuit said:

In Vedic tradition human body = physical body + subtle body + causal body (merits and demerits). To answer you, (and I am also just guessing) most likely it is the causal body that reincarnates. Because, at the absolute level, the causality doesn't exist, so when the causal body reaches that state it merges back in absolute.

According to them there is memory of past lifes and you can remember them right? But who knows of that's a tale

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Javfly33 if the reincarnation finish and the reality is no form, there is no time, then if in any moment the form starts again, it's immediately after than the last incarnation, because between both there is not time. Then, right now it's the no time, and inside is the appearance of an experience that happens in time, always, because there are not Limits to prevent it 

Intellectually that might feel correct, but if there is no time go spend 20 years on a El Salvador jail.

Anyways there is no time right? You don´t care to spend there 20 years I guess, meanwhile I'll spend the last 20 years on a Hawaii beach. We either way are 'dead' already because there is no time and our lives have already been lived due to your Infinite logic.... (not saying it a bad way I mean intellectually you might have a point but practical wise we do care about finishing the race first or last)

 

 

[Javfly33]

 Another example of looking at reincarnation on a different perspective:

Imagine you are born from a pedophile priest that raped children because the genetics of you  her parents also raped because it was an habit of trying to get love from feeling unwanted by your mother (or who knows why).

To get born as that, reality has to be able to maintain that type of memory of that trauma, there has to be a predisposition to maintain and preserve that kind of patterns. 

That would be a type of reincarnation. Instead of thinking it as bodies reincarnation, think it as reencarnations of certain patterns.

As reality, you did not dissolve or distanced yourself enough from the trauma of raping, so inevitably you pass it through your children, and inevitably you maintain that through another cycle. In other point of Infinity, there is a certain fragment of Reality that is very similar to the parent of the rapist, and is ready to take the form of the new born child.

The Reality that gets incarnated into the child of the rapist priest, is a Reality that has not dissolved his karma in his previous life so is inevitably 'attracted' to that kind of new experience/ego. (which of course is not new, is the same cycle but with different body)

@Breakingthewall Is all a Recycling circus of memory. 

Edited November 17 by Javfly33

[Javfly33]

On 17/11/2024 at 4:36 PM, creativepursuit said:

In Vedic tradition human body = physical body + subtle body + causal body (merits and demerits). To answer you, (and I am also just guessing) most likely it is the causal body that reincarnates. Because, at the absolute level, the causality doesn't exist, so when the causal body reaches that state it merges back in absolute.

 

On 17/11/2024 at 4:45 PM, Ishanga said:

the causal body has stored karma in it, that encapsulates the bliss body and so called Soul or Atman (you allotted Life aspect within You)

@Ishanga @creativepursuit I didn´t know about the casual body but apparently is the same as the Bliss body or 5 sheath