Evolving Past Non-Dual Debates

[Da77en]

Non-Dual Debates
I see that many of the discussions and debates on this forum are specifically focused on the Non-Dual aspects of consciousness. When it comes to these kinds of Non-Dual debates, a lot of it can be summed up as semantics or different ways of defining things. Debates like this have been going on for a while on this forum and it doesn't really get us anywhere. How are we supposed to get to deeper and more nuanced understandings of consciousness if we insist on debating very one dimensional talking points? When we do these kinds of debates it can tend to in a sense "derail" a thread and lead the thread to exclusively focusing on non-duality, which then gets very one dimensional and doesn't explore anything very deeply.

It is beneficial to discuss many of the Non-Dual talking points, but at a certain point it just becomes excessive and doesn't allow for deeper understandings.

You are definitely free to do any kind of debates you want on this forum I just see an opportunity for the forum to start discussing more advanced aspects of consciousness.

The Non-Dual aspects of consciousness are more of a fundamental groundwork and foundation for the overall raising of your consciousness not necessarily an end point, but that’s my personal perspective.

Not all of the Non-Dual understandings are an issue.

Here is a list of specific ideas that are sometimes used to in a sense derail higher level discussions:

“There is only one enlightenment.” - often used to discount higher levels of consciousness.

“There’s no one here.” - sometimes used as a justification to not interact and provide support to others.

“Everything is already perfect” - often used to convince someone to stop their pursuit of something.

“Free will is an illusion” - sometimes used to perpetuate a lack of responsibility.

“Nothing ever happens” - often used as an excuse to not pursue things, because it’s “all an illusion”.

”There’s nothing to achieve” - often used as an excuse to not pursue things.

“There is no doer” - often used as a justification to not take responsibility.

Stating that what someone is saying is just a though, concept, idea, story etc. - this is often used to in a sense discount whatever was said.

 

There are various other Non-Dual insights that are being used out of context, in a way that doesn’t really serve an individuals pursuit of higher levels of consciousness.

It’s fine to discuss the things I listed above, just please don’t use it out of context to discount, derail, or devalue other discussions.

 

Edited November 15 by Da77en

[Princess Arabia]

Understanding the whole can get to sustainable and effective doings on the part. If one doesn't understand from where they are taking action how can the results be of any lasting effects. If the goal is to set a stable and grounded foundation then that foundation and grounds has to come from something stable and grounded.

I'm not sure if you're referring to my thread or not, I'm just assuming you are. One thing that's for sure, there are lots of depressed, anxious, suicidal, miserable, unhappy etcetc people around. I WONDER WHY?? We will blame it on this and that thing external but are those the real causes.

Edited November 14 by Princess Arabia

[Da77en]

@Princess Arabia I'm not referring to anyone in particular. The vast majority of threads in the Spirituality subsection are either specifically focused on Non-Duality talking points or end up being derailed into them, this is a very significant bottleneck if we want to progress to higher level understandings. When it comes to people who are dealing with chronic mental illnesses I don't recommend the Non-Duality targeted understandings because it has a tendency to make things way too intellectual which doesn't serve to bring people into more aligned states of being.

 

Edited November 14 by Da77en

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Da77en said:

@Princess Arabia I'm not referring to anyone in particular. The vast majority of threads in the Spirituality subsection are either specifically focused on Non-Duality talking points or end up being derailed into them, this is a very significant bottleneck if we want to progress to higher level understandings. When it comes to people who are dealing with chronic mental illnesses I don't recommend Non-Duality because it has a tendency to make things way too intellectual which doesn't serve to bring one into a more aligned state of being.

 

Ok, point taken. Not sure if my thread was even non-duality or not. When it comes to certain things, I don't categorize. Referring to one's true nature to me is not non-duality; but you did say you weren't referring to any particular post. 

[Da77en]

I would estimate that about 3/4ths of the Spirituality subsection on this forum is specifically debating Non-Dual talking points. This is a huge bottleneck and this isn't the essence of spirituality.

Edited November 14 by Da77en

[Javfly33]

You know We use this forum to accumulate Karma so we can extend the process, if everyone here just stopped entering and just meditate we would experience more than one mahasamadhi

So using this forum is similar to what Ramakrishna used to do to hold himself to the body: becoming an avid/obssesive eater

In other words we talk about non-duality to generate duality because if not we would dissolve too soon 

Edited November 14 by Javfly33

[Da77en]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

You know We use this forum to accumulate Karma so we can extend the process, if everyone here just stopped entering and just meditate we would experience more than one mahasamadhi

So using this forum is similar to what Ramakrishna used to do to hold himself to the body: becoming an avid/obssesive eater

In other words we talk about non-duality to generate duality because if not we would dissolve too soon 

I think you are drastically overestimating the level of consciousness of the people of this forum and you really don't have to worry about dissolving, you aren't going anywhere.

When it comes to specific ideas of ending all of your experience with mahasamdhi, I suggest that these are misunderstandings. If you could actually end all experience entirely you would have done it already. Mahasamdhi is referring to more of a transcended state of being, beyond limited identities and physicality. This is just my personal understanding so take it with a grain of salt.

If that is genuinely your highest goal, what’s the point of staying around? These Non-Dual debates don’t really get us anywhere when it comes to the higher level understandings of consciousness.

If that is truly truly your highest goal I have the type of attitude that would encourage you to just do it and get it over with. If not then let’s explore some higher levels of consciousness.

Make sure you fully understand it and make sure it’s actually the most aligned thing for you so that you don’t miss out on something higher and more worthwhile.

Also when it comes to making potentially permanent spiritual decisions, or any kind of so called permanent decision, I suggest doing it out of love, ecstasy, clarity, intelligence, etc. Never out of fear.

Edited November 14 by Da77en

[Spiritual Warfare]

16 minutes ago, Da77en said:

I would estimate that about 3/4ths of the Spirituality subsection on this forum is specifically debating Non-Dual talking points. This is a huge bottleneck and this isn't the essence of spirituality.

Ah, so you’re the one who’s figured out that 3/4ths of the forum is stuck in Non-Duality debates? Impressive. Maybe if you spent less time trying to be the ‘spirituality sheriff’ and more time actually engaging in the conversations, you’d realize that everyone’s journey is different. But hey, why practice what you preach when you can just sit on the sidelines and complain about how everyone else is doing it wrong, right?

[Water by the River]

16 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

In other words we talk about non-duality to generate duality because if not we would dissolve too soon 

Exactly. Which is the last thing any separate ego wants...

A little less conversation, a little more action, please
All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me
A little more bite and a little less bark
A little less fight and a little more spark meditation

... Come on, baby, I'm tired of talking
Grab your coat and let's start walking
Come on, come on (come on, come on)
Come on, come on (come on, come on)
Come on, come on (come on, come on)

Edited November 14 by Water by the River

[Da77en]

2 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

Ah, so you’re the one who’s figured out that 3/4ths of the forum is stuck in Non-Duality debates? Impressive. Maybe if you spent less time trying to be the ‘spirituality sheriff’ and more time actually engaging in the conversations, you’d realize that everyone’s journey is different. But hey, why practice what you preach when you can just sit on the sidelines and complain about how everyone else is doing it wrong, right?

This is not about complaining or personal attacks. It's an observation and suggestion, we've been doing these non-dual debates excessively for years now. At the very least we can come to an agreement to not derail specific threads that aren't focused on the Non-Dual talking points.

Edited November 14 by Da77en

[Spiritual Warfare]

5 minutes ago, Da77en said:

This is not about complaining or personal attacks. It's an observation and suggestion, we've been doing these non-dual debates excessively for years now. At the very least we can come to an agreement to not derail specific threads that aren't focused on the Non-Dual talking points.

Fair enough, I get your point. It’s just that your observation came off a bit like a ‘spirituality police’ vibe, which is why I took it in that direction

[Yimpa]

This is precisely how normies see us

 

[Da77en]

Anyone who’s considering Mahasamadhi, let’s discuss it so we can gain a better understanding of it. It’s important that before we genuinely start considering potentially permanent decisions we need to have a sufficient understanding of what that particular decision is. Non-dual discussions aren’t sufficient when it comes to these kinds of understandings.

Edited November 14 by Da77en

[Yimpa]

I can assure you that nobody has everything figured out.

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I can assure you that nobody has everything figured out.

Because there’s seemingly nobody already?

[Da77en]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Because there’s seemingly nobody already?

Please describe in detail what you mean by this so it doesn’t devolve into a non-dual debate.

Edited November 14 by Da77en

[ExplorerMystic]

@Da77en

It does not depend on what response you are getting on a specific topic such as Non-duality, Reality, or Truth but how much deeper you want to go into it. It will require work from you and whoever comes on this forum to search for it. Lately, nonduality has become a buzz word & everybody has their own POV. 99% of this view expressed anywhere on the internet is still a trap within the minds of people who are expressing it.

How passionate are you about knowing the truth, and what are you bringing to the plate to know it? Otherwise, it will not take time for you to become a parrot as well. (99%, I have mentioned above.) For me, the eagerness when I have faced this question is to keep my life on the front line and be ready to die (if required) to know the reality.

Even if you take the most powerful psychedelic on earth and are not ready to integrate the learning, deconstruct your mind, etc. You will end up with the majority facing mental issues triggered by it.

Some rules to go forward (you can add your own) :

- For a specific topic on this forum go to Google and search for a specific topic for example - site:https://www.actualized.org/forum/ "awareness".  You can do this with any specific site. This will cut down your search to a minimum number you put. Now go and see the old topics on this forum or other sites. You will find some very good explanations on the topic you are searching for. Here is the link to get into a basic search on YT. There are many videos on the same topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzhbYoSZix4

- If you have started a topic and say for example 4 people have replied to it. Most probably out of 4. Only 1 or 2 people replies which resonate with you. You have to engage with them (elaborate on your query etc). It's ok if you are not engaging with 100 which doesn't answer your query. 

Other than this my POV here (Which may not be of yours or others) : You never arrive on this search. It keeps showing you new levels of understanding, and experience. The only thing you have to do is to keep yourself humble and surrender to it. Also, this journey is not for everybody (This is my POV) because it may land you with a nervous breakdown or mental illness. It is so direct that no thoughts or complex wording can define it.

If you didn't find an answer here go somewhere else and search it. Never ever get discouraged because you are a unique POV out of approximately 8 billion Humans POV right now on Earth and an infinite alien POV out there.

[Da77en]

@ExplorerMystic Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it. I agree with your perspective that you never arrive to a final destination when it comes to spiritual pursuits.

From my perspective, one of the most important things to achieve on the spiritual path is getting to a point where nothing can generate any kind of fear within you and thus you don’t need to worry about nervous breakdowns, mental illness, and such, even when you are taking potent psychedelics.

Edited November 14 by Da77en

[Ishanga]

3 hours ago, Da77en said:

Anyone who’s considering Mahasamadhi, let’s discuss it so we can gain a better understanding of it. It’s important that before we genuinely start considering potentially permanent decisions we need to have a sufficient understanding of what that particular decision is. Non-dual discussions aren’t sufficient when it comes to these kinds of understandings.

I've contemplated on it, at times this Human existence gets old, like I've been thru so many times before, the game gets old, like I've been going to School for Millennia, at times its like I want to move on, which is I guess a part of the Desiring Process, to always want to expand and become Limitless and Boundless, Completely Free...

I agree the Non Dual talks go nowhere, and become circular in nature, plus how to talk about Union or Non Duality/One, its untalkable imo, we cannot discuss such topics directly, only indirectly which causes ppl to develop ideologies and strong identifications with it...

[Da77en]

@Ishanga I agree. What I can account for is once you expand yourself into significantly profound states of joy, love, and ecstasy it’s so amazing and beautiful that you won’t want to find some sort of end to all experience.

One piece of awareness I can give to anyone on this planet is that this: Earth is like a hell that you don’t know you are in. Consciousness is like this, any level of awareness can be seen as being in a woods that you don’t know you are in, you can’t actually see that you are in the “woods” until you raise your awareness enough look back and see it. Once you look back at the “woods” of Earth you will be crying tears of love and compassion at the realization that you’ve been in a hell all this time but you’ve finally made it out, or at least begin to come out of it.

I recommend to anyone looking for a complete end to all experience to get themselves significantly out of the “woods” of the profound misalignments of Earth before they make a permanent end to all experience - if such a thing of ending all experience is even possible.

Edited November 14 by Da77en