Why solipsism is not Absolute

[UnbornTao]

Again I don't get why any belief system would provide any consciousness into the nature of the self that is asking the question. In fact, it is an intellectual indulgence and a distraction.

[Carl-Richard]

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Solipsism is the most powerful epistemological school of thought amongst the countless philosophies.  I dare you present a solid argument that refute it instead of calling people suffering because of Leo's Solipsism. 

I'm mostly just against people conflating solipsism with non-duality a.k.a. the Absolute.

Edited Sunday at 09:34 PM by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Solipsism is the most powerful epistemological school of thought amongst the countless philosophies.  I dare you present a solid argument that refute it instead of calling people suffering because of Leo's Solipsism. 

@Carl-Richard I double dare ya !

Of course you cannot . If you go to uncle Google or encyclopedia they will tell solipsism Is amongst the school of thoughts which are undebunkable . Anything you say no matter how smartassey it is is being done inside your solipsistic bubble which is the only thing that exists .

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

@Carl-Richard I double dare ya !

Of course you cannot . If you go to uncle Google or encyclopedia they will tell solipsism Is amongst the school of thoughts which are undebunkable . Anything you say no matter how smartassey it is is being done inside your solipsistic bubble which is the only thing that exists .

What is that bubble? Can you describe it? Can you describe what it isn't?

Edited Sunday at 09:34 PM by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What is that bubble? Can you describe it? Can you describe what it isn't?

Sure . Stop playing define "X" ad infinitum like our old friend @Gesundheit2 .

The bubble is everything you call existence or reality . the limits of someone's pov (the boundaries of the body..the ego and its  sensory limits like sight and hearing distance) .

[Someone here]

18 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Again I don't get why any belief system would provide any consciousness into the nature of the self that is asking the question. In fact, it is an intellectual indulgence and a distraction.

The two are not related . These are two separate questions  .

[UnbornTao]

30 minutes ago, Someone here said:

The two are not related . These are two separate questions  .

No. Who's the you that's claimed to be the source of existence?

If it is your self, ay ay ay!

Edited Sunday at 10:18 PM by UnbornTao

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

No. Who's the you that's claimed to be the source of existence?

It's undefinable, like probably everything.  But it's me . Who is me ? Well it's not a name . It's the unborntao .

[Sincerity]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's the same as asking why don't most people shoot themselves in the face.

Metaphysical Russian roulette is a risky business and even quite dangerous. It's hard to count how many threads have been made about people having an existential crisis about solipsism and that seem to suffer from their own abstract mental activity rather than the experience of Oneness.

Conversely, very few seem to do the same for the words "Oneness" and "non-duality". The people who do freak out about those things mostly seem to do so because they are having the actual experience and actually underestimated how serious it is (because "Oneness" and "non-duality" sound so warm and welcoming). That's actually a problem in itself, but it's an order of magnitude removed from the solipsism problem.

I thought we were talking about what's true. Now we're talking about conveying pointers/teachings in a safe manner.

This is an entirely different conversation. I care more about the former.

26 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Sincerity And then you have things like this, which is actually an entirely valid observation. Tell me not how much of a mess this is.

What part of this rambling is an entirely valid observation? I really don't know what you're pointing to.

The guy made assumptions about why Leo did certain things like removing a video, which are false. Leo didn't remove the video because "he wasn't sure". I remember why he did. And there is no contradiction with the Infinity of Gods video.

Reminder that the guy you quoted is not serious in the slightest...

[Someone here]

@Sincerity your arrogance is obnoxious &ridiculous. As if you actually know shit .

[Someone here]

@Sincerity About "being serious "...you yourself said you don't give a damn about this topic ..so what's it you are doing right now ? Killing some time while waiting in the bus station? 

[UnbornTao]

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

It's undefinable, like probably everything.  But it's me . Who is me ? Well it's not a name . It's the unborntao .

Another way of saying "I don't know".  

Good state to question one's self.

Edited Sunday at 10:21 PM by UnbornTao

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Another way of saying "I don't know".  

Good state to question one's self.

I always say We can never know really what's going on in life because that would be ridiculous. Its an infinite mystery. But we can approach truth to various levels .for example someone like Leo probably "knows " stuff more than you or I do ..but he will never figure it all out because you literally don't know what your hand is 😂. 

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I always say We can never know really what's going on in life because that would be ridiculous. Its an infinite mystery. But we can approach truth to various levels .for example someone like Leo probably "knows " stuff more than you or I do ..but he will never figure it all out because you literally don't know what your hand is 😂. 

Even dismissing the possibility of actual knowing is based on conjecture rather than personal experience. So maybe it is possible. That possibility is the basis of any inquiry. 

Edited yesterday at 12:05 AM by UnbornTao

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Sincerity said:

I thought we were talking about what's true. Now we're talking about conveying pointers/teachings in a safe manner.

This is an entirely different conversation. I care more about the former.

I intentionally went on a tangent, and it's just icing on the cake of why it's extra bad. It doesn't subtract away that people are getting confused at unprecedented rates. If your aim is to convey truth, don't do it a confusing way, especially if it seems to affect a lot of people negatively in other ways as well.

 

2 hours ago, Sincerity said:

What part of this rambling is an entirely valid observation? I really don't know what you're pointing to.

Leo has himself said things like "solipsism is not non-duality".

 

2 hours ago, Sincerity said:

The guy made assumptions about why Leo did certain things like removing a video, which are false.

Ironically, he removed it because he thought people misunderstood it. I admit might @Someone here be wrong there.

 

2 hours ago, Sincerity said:

And there is no contradiction with the Infinity of Gods video.

Then let's hope "solipsism is not non-duality" was just a slip-up. I feel like Leo is a "crypto-solipsist". He seems very elusive on what he really means about the topic.

As a slight side note, I think the Infinity of Gods video is redudant and complexifies something that is really simple, namely that infinity can hide aspects of itself from other aspects of itself. Infinity is God. "Infinity of Gods" is just "God of Gods" or "infinity of infinity".

And if infinity can hide aspects of itself from itself, then you will have actual solipsists like @Someone here, who believes his eyeballs are the arbiter of reality, start spinning their wheels.

Edited yesterday at 12:42 AM by Carl-Richard

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I always say We can never know really what's going on in life because that would be ridiculous. Its an infinite mystery.

I think if you know what is going on in your life you know all life, as long as 'your' life is a infinite one, then you grasp all life at once

If you grasp finite life, the question of 'the rest of lives' obviously remains a mystery

Edited yesterday at 12:21 AM by Javfly33

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Even dismissing the possibility of actual knowing is based on conjecture rather than personal experience. So maybe it is possible. That possibility is the basis of any inquiry. 

The only thing I'm sure of is that this present moment with all of the 'things ' in it as they appear directly exist .

Anything else is believing. Conjecture etc

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I think if you know what is going on in your life you know all life, as long as 'your' life is a infinite one, then you grasp all life at once

If you grasp finite life, the question of 'the rest of lives' obviously remains a mystery

I'm not talking about knowing through the mind . Relative knowledge is definitely possible. Science is in the business of knowing about the world . But do you know the actual substance of anything? I told you this before but you ignored my comment.  Take a cat 🙀.  Do you know what a cat is  beyond its physical appearance?  Or do you just know how it looks and how it sounds without actually knowing the very "being " of a cat . Why is there anything at all in existence?  Do you know this ? Does Science know why did the big bang happen?  

@Carl-Richard still waiting for you debunking and shattering apart solipsism. 

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

The bubble is everything you call existence or reality . the limits of someone's pov (the boundaries of the body..the ego and its  sensory limits like sight and hearing distance) .

Ok, so the boundaries of the body, the ego and its sensory limits with quite limited seeing and hearing distances. Why should I believe there is nothing outside of that quite limited sensory boundary? Do you know people have out-of-body experiences? Telepathic experiences? Experiences of merging with another person? Experiences of zooming out across entire festival fields from a birds-eye view? How do you explain such experiences if your little claustrophobic bubble is all that exists?

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Ok, so the boundaries of the body, the ego and its sensory limits with quite limited seeing and hearing distances. Why should I believe there is nothing outside of that quite limited sensory boundary? Do you know people have out-of-body experiences? Telepathic experiences? Experiences of merging with another person? Experiences of zooming out across entire festival fields from a birds-eye view? How do you explain such experiences if your little claustrophobic bubble is all that exists?

None of these things exist . Yup . Simple as that . You're imagining all that . These are thoughts you are imagining inside your bubble . Anything you say or any objection you pose can be flushed down the toilet with the same reply : you are imagining it .

[Carl-Richard]

10 hours ago, Someone here said:

any objection you pose can be flushed down the toilet with the same reply : you are imagining it .

Then drop everything you just said about "limited seeing and hearing distance", because that doesn't matter at all. You could be imagining infinitely and the claim would still hold. Indeed, if the claim is simply "there is imagination", you could be imagining the entire universe, every single perspective, and hiding each perspective away from the other perspectives, all at once, and be consistent with that statement. But of course you don't want to accept that, because that doesn't sound like solipsism; it isn't radical or "edgy" enough. You want to cling to something limited and tangible, like a spatial limitation ("here"), or temporal ("now"), and ultimately, you want to deny that other people are just like you and claim that your little limited egoic spatio-temporal sensory existence is the metaphysical ultimatum.

Edited yesterday at 02:08 PM by Carl-Richard