Why solipsism is not Absolute

[Carl-Richard]

18 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You need an awakening.  You are God dreaming up everything.  It's no different than a dream and you can become completely lucid.    But it requires awakening.  So everything else is just chatter.

Is God dreaming up things that you as a limited homosapien ape on planet Earth currently are not able to see with his naked eyes?

Edited November 20 by Carl-Richard

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is God dreaming up things that you as a limited homosapien ape on planet Earth currently are not able to see with his naked eyes? That's a relative question by the way, @Razard86.

Infinity doesn't require it to happen behind the scenes.  But if your Consciousness elevates enough, both self and other will dissipate.  There will just be pure Consciousness or Pure Awareness without a self.  That will show you that it's all within your own mind.  

[James123]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is God dreaming up things that you as a limited homosapien ape on planet Earth currently are not able to see with his naked eyes?

There is no god, because there is no you / existence in first place. Just Being and has no names. Any name identifies duality. 

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

Infinity doesn't require it to happen behind the scenes.

Please elaborate on that.

[Terell Kirby]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

There will just be pure Consciousness or Pure Awareness without a self.

The 'S'elf is Pure Consciousness & Awareness.

The concept of no self in non duality and Buddhist circles is false. The Infinite Self is all that exists.

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Please elaborate on that.

There need not be anything behind the scenes because it's happening on the fly.  Reality doesn't need a backstory or something happening higher than the human ego.   It's creating everything on the fly because it doesn't need it.  The current frame you are experiencing holds everything. 

[Inliytened1]

18 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

The 'S'elf is Pure Consciousness & Awareness.

The concept of no self in non duality and Buddhist circles is false. The Infinite Self is all that exists.

It's very true actually.   But yes the Self with a capital S is all that you are left with. That doesn't contradict Buddishm. 

Edited November 20 by Inliytened1

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

There need not be anything behind the scenes because it's happening on the fly.  Reality doesn't need a backstory or something happening higher than the human ego.   It's creating everything on the fly because it doesn't need it.  The current frame you are experiencing holds everything. 

Why does God in itself need to be limited to what is going on "on the scenes"? Does God in itself need to be limited by limited appearances? Why would infinity in itself need to be limited? 

Why does God in itself need to limit itself to what is happening "currently"? Is God limited by time? Is time (change, past vs future) absolute or relative?

What is "the scenes"? You mention the human ego. You call it a "backstory", a story, a fiction to explain the relative world. What does this relative fiction have to do with God in itself which is absolute? How is the human ego and its limited and relative fictions somehow intrinsic to God?

In summary, and I will reiterate: how is necessarily linking solipsism to God not to conflate the relative with the absolute?

 

Feel free to describe more in detail "the scenes". What is its structure, etc. (and yes, structure is also relative).

Edited November 20 by Carl-Richard

[Razard86]

Relative= Comparison. Absolute= Acceptance without comparison.

I'll give an example: A man gets hit in the head, he falls into deep sleep for 5 years. When he wakes up, he wakes up in a hallucination that tells him he has been asleep for 8 hours. He then proceeds to live out that life and dies. When he dies....he awakens from that hallucination into what we call real life and he discovers he was in a coma for 5 years.

Now here is the question....which one was his REAL LIFE? Second...notice how he is always his own existence first. When he is hallucinating....that hallucination is Absolutely his Reality....until he exits. There isn't some other Reality, if there was he would be experiencing it. The search for truth always uses evidence, but the trick people fall into is they make claims of evidence that isn't there.

They say....well didn't my parents exist outside my hallucination? Let's explain how that is not so. If he was born hallucinating, and never experienced anything but that hallucination....he wouldn't know anything outside of that hallucination. That would have been his life. Its only because he exits that hallucination and enters a NEW hallucination that he was ever able to realize he was hallucinating at all. And then notice when he lives that hallucination, it is Absolutely his reality until he enters another hallucination then THAT becomes his reality and then he calls one of his hallucinations MORE REAL, through relation/comparison. So he divides what is absolutely true, into two relative truth/relational truths. This is how you as God.....HIDE YOURSELF. 

This is why it is accurate to say....current reality....is a hallucination. 

Now when you are hallucinating....that hallucination is ABSOLUTELY TRUE, and this is why it is said....you are all alone. NOBODY can travel with you into your hallucination, unless you hallucinate that they travel with you. If not....you will hallucinate that you went somewhere else. We do this already its called....DREAMING.

This is why it is said, there is nothing behind the scenes....but the funny part is? You can trick yourself if you want....and hallucinate that something is behind the scenes.....and be thoroughly tricked. Such is the nature of an INFINITE MIND.

Edited November 20 by Razard86

[Razard86]

The SELF being equal to NO SELF is impossible for Normal Human Logic. Until a human understands that Reality is a Contradiction then it will never be understood. Best I got for them is....

SELF= Every Something that can ever exist. NO SELF/SELFLESS= Nothing.

SELF= APPEARANCE. NO SELF/SELFLESS= NON APPEARANCE.

GOD is a non appearing Mind that is alive but invisible. Has existed forever. Does not need to appear to exist. Because.....it can exist, without knowing it exists. It doesn't need self-awareness.

Self awareness= God awakening that it exists.

God can DEEP SLEEP for millennia, and this is what humans call DEATH. But when your life ends.....you will be BOTH DEEP SLEEP, and EVERY LIFE, merged into ONE. You will be all form, and no form at the same time. It will be the end of all distinction.

 

Edited November 20 by Razard86

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Reality is a Contradiction

what does that mean?

[Razard86]

16 minutes ago, zurew said:

what does that mean?

Reality is a True Illusion, A True Fantasy, a True Fiction, A True Deception, A True Lie. That's what I mean.

[Davino]

The other day I had the following Awakening

Quote

Solipsism is realising all possible psyches, points of view, persons, animals, "other" as your own Self, Mind and Reality

Solipsism is looking at yourself through all eyes in The Ultimate Cosmic Strange Loop

 

[Carl-Richard]

23 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Relative= Comparison. Absolute= Acceptance without comparison.

You can re-define the words all you want, but at the end of the day, the true absolute does not exclude what your "absolute" excludes. Because it's absolute. It does not exclude, does not contrast, does not divide itself into parts. When you divide, contrast and exclude, you are in the relative.

Likewise, there is nothing about the true absolute that suggests there is "nothing behind the scenes" in the sense that your homosapien perceptual dashboard is the only perceptual dashboard there is; that other homosapien apes are merely NPCs in your dashboard with no dashboards of their own. You are way into the relative when making those claims.

And I don't think this is a problem of not having enough awakening experiences. It's a problem of drawing conclusions and seeing the implications of your awakening experiences. Because that requires a rigorous understanding of the relative, things like metaphysics, science, cognition, evolution, biology, physiology, etc.

If you don't have a rigorous understanding of the relative, then of course you will confuse it with the absolute. You need to be very adept at drawing distinctions to see how the absolute clearly lacks these distinctions.

I consider myself lucky in this respect as I had awakening experiences in my late teens and then had time to reconstruct a scientific worldview in university afterwards which forced me to reconcile my experiences and integrate them with the science, not sidestep it. And even then, it took a lot of deliberate work. If you are not in the same position, you have to work even harder.

Edited November 21 by Carl-Richard

[zurew]

18 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Reality is a True Illusion, A True Fantasy, a True Fiction, A True Deception, A True Lie. That's what I mean.

The way I use those words that sentence doesn't make much sense.

What do you mean by terms like  'reality' and 'illusion' under which  saying 'Reality is a true illusion' is a coherent statement? 

[Razard86]

Let's address each objective. I'll bold what you wrote.

You can re-define the words all you want, but at the end of the day, the true absolute does not exclude what your "absolute" excludes. Because it's absolute. It does not exclude, does not contrast, does not divide itself into parts. When you divide, contrast and exclude, you are in the relative.

What you don't understand is the moment you say there is a true absolute versus a nontrue absolute.....you fall into the trap of doing what you accuse me of doing. What I am telling you is....there is only the Absolute, and also the Relative IS THE ABSOLUTE. Until you understand that there is NO DIFFERENCE between the Relative and the Absolute you will never understand. 

Your true identity is the ABSOLUTE!!! You are the Absolute Truth FIRST, then you create relativity. You create through imagination. At a certain state of Consciousness your thoughts literally create Reality. So when you say there could be something behind the scenes, what you keep denying is that you are creating that. Because you are Infinity, you have no end. So you can hallucinate forever that there is always something behind the scenes. 

Likewise, there is nothing about the true absolute that suggests there is "nothing behind the scenes" in the sense that your homosapien perceptual dashboard is the only perceptual dashboard there is; that other homosapien apes are merely NPCs in your dashboard with no dashboards of their own. You are way into the relative when making those claims.

What you don't understand is perception is not some biological feature. You do not need your body, or eyes to see anything. This is how it works. You are a mind first, then your mind dreams up your body and gives your body the ability to influence the experience all around them. But if you study NDE's you can discover people are able to exist in this world without a body and interestingly enough their ability to perceive actually expands. What you need to understand is human embodied is a State of Consciousness, if I kill your physical body you can still exist in your room.

And I don't think this is a problem of not having enough awakening experiences. It's a problem of drawing conclusions and seeing the implications of your awakening experiences. Because that requires a rigorous understanding of the relative, things like metaphysics, science, cognition, evolution, biology, physiology, etc.

If you don't have a rigorous understanding of the relative, then of course you will confuse it with the absolute. You need to be very adept at drawing distinctions to see how the absolute clearly lacks these distinctions.

Its not hard at all actually. First you are the Absolute. This means you are the Source, and the Entirety. Since you are both the source and the entirety then nothing can exist without you. Its like in a video game. When you play the character the entirety of the frame is all that exists. Its perfectly logical. The truth is you do not want to understand because you don't like this information emotionally.

I consider myself lucky in this respect as I had awakening experiences in my late teens and then had time to reconstruct a scientific worldview in university afterwards which forced me to reconcile my experiences and integrate them with the science, not sidestep it. And even then, it took a lot of deliberate work. If you are not in the same position, you have to work even harder.

Conventional Science still thinks mental imagery exists in a brain and that Consciousness is housed in a brain. By the way your premise/perspective has holes in it, the perspective presented you still haven't presented a single hole.

 

An example of someone not having to exist somewhere else to call you.

You are too stuck in relativity. There is no difference between Infinity of Gods for example and Absolute Solipsism.

They are exactly identical.

Reality has no rules or boundaries, so the most logical design is the most simple, but the amazing thing is because it can be anyway, it can infinitely delude itself which is what you are doing right now.

Edited November 21 by Razard86

[Razard86]

One of the scariest things for the ego is to realize they are not more Real than a cartoon character. All distinctions between Real and Unreal, Fiction and Non Fiction are created through Imagination. Can you look in the Mirror and realize you are just as alive or dead as Mario or Sonic, or Bugs Bunny? Spirituality is realizing that Reality is Mental, as such everything is equally alive and dead. Or you could just say everything is equally alive. 

When you discover that everything is Consciousness, you discover that Santa Claus actually exists. You'll say Santa Claus is imaginary, well so is your human life. It goes further...you know how you have a boundary called abstract and concrete? Well consider this....Reality, can break that boundary. You can reach a state of Consciousness where Santa Claus actually exists, and Rudolph does too.....lol. But you will feel like you are losing your mind. 

Also you could get trapped in that Santa Claus dream for years, only to awaken that 8 hours has passed.

With that said tread carefully a mind that open and suggestive can dream up anything. Your ego maintains the solidity of your dream.

Edited November 21 by Razard86

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, Razard86 said:

there is only the Absolute, and also the Relative IS THE ABSOLUTE. Until you understand that there is NO DIFFERENCE between the Relative and the Absolute you will never understand. 

It's more illuminating to say the absolute includes the relative, but the relative does not include the absolute. One is all-encompassing, the other is not.

It's true that once we decide to speak, we have to concede that we're using concepts and diving things into parts (relative vs absolute), and the absolute is of course beyond any concept.

However, when we have made that concession and we are willing to use concepts, we do it in a rigorous way, and that is when you should not conflate the relative with the absolute. We have different words for each for a reason.

 

7 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Its not hard at all actually. First you are the Absolute. This means you are the Source, and the Entirety. Since you are both the source and the entirety then nothing can exist without you. Its like in a video game. When you play the character the entirety of the frame is all that exists.

The contents of the frame are relative. If you make claims about the contents (e.g. "other apes are merely NPCs"), you are in the relative.

 

7 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Conventional Science still thinks mental imagery exists in a brain and that Consciousness is housed in a brain. By the way your premise/perspective has holes in it, the perspective presented you still haven't presented a single hole.

That's conventional metaphysics (materialism), rather than science. Nevertheless, I'm not really a "conventional scientist" either. For example, I think psychic phenomena have legitimate scientific evidence. But I'm also quite comfortable with conventional science, e.g. the "role" of the brain (without assuming a materialists metaphysics), i.e. the brain seems to correlate with (not cause) certain phenomena (some thoughts, perceptions, sensations, etc.). But these are also just statements about the relative.

 

7 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Reality has no rules or boundaries

Speaking has rules and boundaries.

 

As a side note, what is funnily implicated by your conceptual nihilism is that there is no difference between apes being NPCs and apes being conscious in their own right, so again, we contradict solipsism.

Edited November 21 by Carl-Richard

[zurew]

24 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's more illuminating to say the absolute includes the relative, but the relative does not include the absolute. One is all-encompassing, the other is not.

It's true that once we decide to speak, we have to concede that we're using concepts and diving things into opposites (relative vs absolute), and the absolute is of course beyond any concept.

However, when we have made that concession and we are willing to use concepts, we do it in a rigorous way, and that is when you should not conflate the relative with the absolute.

Yeah - because of the lack of rigor , there is an equivocation going on, where people use a specific meaning for the term "Absolute" and then in the next sentence suddenly "Absolute" means something completely different.

I have seen this trick being used in the context of a formal argument ( premise 1: if p then q; premise 2: p  Conclusion: therefore q ) where 'p' in premise 1 means something completely different than what it means in premise 2 and because of that, the conclusion doesn't actually follow (but if we only look at what phrase is used 'p' - it could seem like the argument is valid)

This method of randomly switching up the meaning behind how one use a particular a phrase,  makes talks and debates about spirituality and philosophy impossible or at the very least unnecessarily confusing.

Edited November 21 by zurew

[Water by the River]

18 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Its not hard at all actually. First you are the Absolute. This means you are the Source, and the Entirety. Since you are both the source and the entirety then nothing can exist without you. Its like in a video game. When you play the character the entirety of the frame is all that exists. Its perfectly logical. The truth is you do not want to understand because you don't like this information emotionally.

Instead of Indras Net as a metaphor of the One without a second looking through the eyes of all appearing beings (which is actually what all spiritual traditions say), gently embracing the Infinite Totality of Infinite Being in its infinite nature imagining infinite perspectives/beings/Holons, we get something served more like:

As gentle as one agent Smith is to the other:

Indras Net my friend, not "When you play the character [is] the entirety of the frame is all that exists".

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Indras Net&author=Water by the River

Selling "me too" by the River