Contemplation is very hard

[jacknine119]

Because i can't forget informations i had before starting to contemplation. Its very hard for me to create my own opinions about so many things. If i think that its my opinion then i remember any Guru said this. How can i solve this?

[NoSelfSelf]

This is domain of the game,ive been speaking about it so much i dont want to repeat myself again 😅

You basically dont know yourself.

And you will not learn yourself as long your mind lies to you and it does all the time.

Edited Thursday at 12:40 PM by NoSelfSelf

[jacknine119]

@NoSelfSelf And how can i be free from mind lies?

[RightHand]

Hi, have you read the Book of Not Knowing by Peter Ralston ? It has all the answers in it.

Contemplation should start with genuine not knowing.

 

Not knowing implies making a distinction between what is a concept and what is direct experience.

 

[Basman]

You just ask questions in the format of an "inner dialogue", trying to derive understanding of your issue. You just have to be patient but the understanding you derive from contemplation is in its own league in my experience because you thoroughly rake your mind over an issue, engaging with it on a deep level.

Its should be hard to have strong opinions if you value truth and open mindedness. A feature of a high degree of intellectual integrity and rigor is that you constantly recognize potential flaws and counterpoints in your own and others arguments.

[NoSelfSelf]

2 hours ago, jacknine119 said:

@NoSelfSelf And how can i be free from mind lies?

I cant explain it easily it will take me 10 hours to explain it all(just a big picture not details)

Simply put you need to change your weak reality.Now its like you are living in a reality where everything is set up to block you and not expand you.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 03:39 PM by NoSelfSelf

[Atb210201]

It's not hard if you go into it from a place of real deep interest in finding answers and also give yourself rest and freedom from the answers if you can't find the answers at times.

[UnbornTao]

Take it deeper than memorizing content. It's about understanding the workings of something, what something is, etc. An observation or valid insight doesn't need to be remembered, in the same way you don't need to remember that your experience of breathing right now. 

Edited Thursday at 11:32 PM by UnbornTao

[NoSelfSelf]

@Atb210201 @UnbornTao that's not his problem,problem is generating his own personalized views on every matter(through contemplation) which is crucial to make for his own individual journey.

[Jacob Morres]

Have you tried leos video on "contemplation with a journal" ? It's quite practical and a skill 

 

Edited Thursday at 09:33 PM by Jacob Morres

[UnbornTao]

Reconsider what contemplation is.

[Atb210201]

3 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Atb210201 @UnbornTao that's not his problem,problem is generating his own personalized views on every matter(through contemplation) which is crucial to make for his own individual journey.

OK what did I say?

Contemplation naturally leads to that ultimately.

And I said about how to not feel like contemplation is hard.

 

[NoSelfSelf]

7 hours ago, Atb210201 said:

OK what did I say?

Contemplation naturally leads to that ultimately.

And I said about how to not feel like contemplation is hard.

 

Wow solid advice 

[Sandhu]

Contemplation is not about accessing some bit of useful information from your memory. It's about accessing sharp insights that can't be doubtful for you. Contemplation is when you get a thing.

[Rafael Thundercat]

21 hours ago, jacknine119 said:

Because i can't forget informations i had before starting to contemplation. Its very hard for me to create my own opinions about so many things. If i think that its my opinion then i remember any Guru said this. How can i solve this?

Start using Claude Sonnet in your contemplation. Your mind is biased and runs dependent of phisological needs that are not always perfect ( unless you use nootropics and a very good diet. But anyway Claude will help unstuck your lazy mind. 

I was trying to answer the question : What are the developmental needs of Stage Blue and Green Spiral dymamics.

I suggested it to Claude and it gave me mill to grind. And this is important, take AI answers as material for you own contemplation.

Here is Claude help

Let me provide a concise explanation of the key developmental areas for Blue (Order) in Spiral Dynamics.

The main developmental challenges for Blue consciousness include:

1. Rigidity and Inflexibility 
- Tendency to see things in absolute black/white terms
- Difficulty adapting rules when circumstances change
- Over-reliance on authority and established procedures

2. Limited Personal Agency
- Strong dependence on external systems for meaning
- Difficulty taking initiative outside prescribed rules
- Challenges with independent decision-making

3. Emotional Suppression
- Repression of "inappropriate" feelings and impulses
- Discomfort with emotional expression
- Strict control over natural drives

4. Growth Areas:
- Developing greater flexibility in thinking
- Building capacity for nuanced perspectives
- Learning to question authority appropriately
- Integrating emotional awareness
- Developing personal judgment alongside rules
- Finding balance between order and adaptability

Would you like me to expand on any of these aspects? I can provide specific examples of how these manifest and strategies for development.

I'll provide specific examples for each developmental challenge:

1. Rigidity and Inflexibility:
- Refusing to update company policies even when they're clearly outdated (e.g., requiring formal dress codes in remote work settings)
- Following traffic rules even in emergencies where breaking them would be safer
- Rejecting new teaching methods simply because they differ from traditional approaches
- Being unable to accommodate cultural differences in workplace etiquette

2. Limited Personal Agency:
- A manager always waiting for upper management approval even for minor decisions
- Students only studying what's explicitly in the curriculum, avoiding creative exploration
- Workers following inefficient processes because "that's how it's always been done"
- Religious practitioners following rituals without understanding their deeper meaning

3. Emotional Suppression:
- A father believing boys shouldn't cry or show vulnerability
- An employee hiding their grief at work after a personal loss because it's "unprofessional"
- A teacher maintaining strict composure even when students make meaningful achievements
- Family members avoiding discussion of feelings at gatherings to maintain "proper" behavior

4. Growth Examples:
From:
- A supervisor who rigidly enforces every rule without context
To:
- Understanding when rules can be flexible for better outcomes

From:
- Only accepting information from traditional authorities
To:
- Learning to evaluate information based on evidence and merit

From:
- Suppressing all emotional responses in professional settings
To:
- Learning appropriate emotional expression while maintaining professionalism

From:
- Following established procedures without question
To:
- Thoughtfully analyzing procedures and suggesting improvements when needed

Would you like me to elaborate on any specific area or discuss strategies for developing these aspects?

[I ASKED: Now compile the same but for Stage Green] 

Stage Green
Let me provide a comprehensive breakdown for Green (Pluralistic-Relativistic) stage in Spiral Dynamics.

Main Development Challenges:

1. Paralysis by Processing
- Over-emphasis on including everyone's perspective
- Difficulty making decisive actions
- Getting stuck in endless discussions and consensus-building

2. Idealistic Perfectionism
- Unrealistic expectations of self and others
- Strong emotional reactions when ideals aren't met
- Tendency to see any compromise as "selling out"

3. Shadow Rejection
- Denying or suppressing "non-acceptable" parts of self
- Difficulty integrating healthy hierarchies or power
- Overcorrecting against previous value systems

4. Growth Areas:
- Developing practical action alongside empathy
- Building capacity for healthy boundaries
- Learning to integrate multiple perspectives without losing effectiveness
- Finding balance between inclusion and decision-making
- Accepting human imperfection while maintaining growth mindset

Specific Examples:

1. Paralysis by Processing:
- A non-profit board spending months discussing a simple policy change because every member must feel fully heard
- A team leader unable to make project decisions without unanimous agreement
- School committees extending meetings indefinitely to process everyone's feelings
- Community projects stalling because consensus can't be reached on minor details

2. Idealistic Perfectionism:
- An activist burning out because they feel they must attend every social justice event
- A teacher becoming depressed because they can't solve all their students' personal problems
- An environmentalist feeling guilty for occasionally using plastic
- Someone rejecting potential allies because they're not "conscious enough"

3. Shadow Rejection:
- A diversity advocate being intolerant towards traditional viewpoints
- A peace activist becoming aggressive towards those who disagree
- A communal living space refusing to establish any leadership structure
- Rejecting all forms of competition as "toxic"

4. Growth Examples:
From:
- Insisting on processing everyone's feelings about changing the office coffee brand
To:
- Learning to balance inclusion with practical time constraints

From:
- Rejecting all hierarchy as oppressive
To:
- Understanding the value of earned expertise and healthy leadership

From:
- Being paralyzed by guilt over cultural appropriation
To:
- Learning to appreciate and respect cultures while engaging authentically

From:
- Refusing to make decisions without group consensus
To:
- Developing skills to make timely decisions while honoring multiple perspectives

Would you like me to explore any particular aspect of Green development in more detail?

[Hojo]

You have experience on certain subjects. When you contemplate you don't make up information you have information in your mind you let naturally go through organizing itself. You just sit there involved in the subject and let your mind wander.

[Razard86]

The first step to knowing yourself is Self-Observation. The second step to knowing yourself is solitude. The third step in knowing yourself is deep contemplation. What can really help you is to keep a Diary. Once you learn how you think and how you move you have a deep communion with yourself. And lastly be consistent. 

[BlueOak]

You can go this route: You don't exist. There are no personal views because there is no person. 

You can go the self route:

There is a pattern everyone runs and it is observed. There are a predictable set of responses to this post I've made (less so now I've pointed it out to deflect them but that's predictable too). 

Unless you were to sit down and start typing out random letters or attempting to do something unexpected, what you do can be largely anticipated. That's just life, its gradual refinement of something through generations of individuals, nothing wrong with it, its how society and we evolve to see and experience more of infinity.

[integration journey]

12 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Start using Claude Sonnet in your contemplation. Your mind is biased and runs dependent of phisological needs that are not always perfect ( unless you use nootropics and a very good diet. But anyway Claude will help unstuck your lazy mind. 

I was trying to answer the question : What are the developmental needs of Stage Blue and Green Spiral dymamics.

I suggested it to Claude and it gave me mill to grind. And this is important, take AI answers as material for you own contemplation.

Here is Claude help

Let me provide a concise explanation of the key developmental areas for Blue (Order) in Spiral Dynamics.

The main developmental challenges for Blue consciousness include:

1. Rigidity and Inflexibility 
- Tendency to see things in absolute black/white terms
- Difficulty adapting rules when circumstances change
- Over-reliance on authority and established procedures

2. Limited Personal Agency
- Strong dependence on external systems for meaning
- Difficulty taking initiative outside prescribed rules
- Challenges with independent decision-making

3. Emotional Suppression
- Repression of "inappropriate" feelings and impulses
- Discomfort with emotional expression
- Strict control over natural drives

4. Growth Areas:
- Developing greater flexibility in thinking
- Building capacity for nuanced perspectives
- Learning to question authority appropriately
- Integrating emotional awareness
- Developing personal judgment alongside rules
- Finding balance between order and adaptability

Would you like me to expand on any of these aspects? I can provide specific examples of how these manifest and strategies for development.

I'll provide specific examples for each developmental challenge:

1. Rigidity and Inflexibility:
- Refusing to update company policies even when they're clearly outdated (e.g., requiring formal dress codes in remote work settings)
- Following traffic rules even in emergencies where breaking them would be safer
- Rejecting new teaching methods simply because they differ from traditional approaches
- Being unable to accommodate cultural differences in workplace etiquette

2. Limited Personal Agency:
- A manager always waiting for upper management approval even for minor decisions
- Students only studying what's explicitly in the curriculum, avoiding creative exploration
- Workers following inefficient processes because "that's how it's always been done"
- Religious practitioners following rituals without understanding their deeper meaning

3. Emotional Suppression:
- A father believing boys shouldn't cry or show vulnerability
- An employee hiding their grief at work after a personal loss because it's "unprofessional"
- A teacher maintaining strict composure even when students make meaningful achievements
- Family members avoiding discussion of feelings at gatherings to maintain "proper" behavior

4. Growth Examples:
From:
- A supervisor who rigidly enforces every rule without context
To:
- Understanding when rules can be flexible for better outcomes

From:
- Only accepting information from traditional authorities
To:
- Learning to evaluate information based on evidence and merit

From:
- Suppressing all emotional responses in professional settings
To:
- Learning appropriate emotional expression while maintaining professionalism

From:
- Following established procedures without question
To:
- Thoughtfully analyzing procedures and suggesting improvements when needed

Would you like me to elaborate on any specific area or discuss strategies for developing these aspects?

[I ASKED: Now compile the same but for Stage Green] 

Stage Green
Let me provide a comprehensive breakdown for Green (Pluralistic-Relativistic) stage in Spiral Dynamics.

Main Development Challenges:

1. Paralysis by Processing
- Over-emphasis on including everyone's perspective
- Difficulty making decisive actions
- Getting stuck in endless discussions and consensus-building

2. Idealistic Perfectionism
- Unrealistic expectations of self and others
- Strong emotional reactions when ideals aren't met
- Tendency to see any compromise as "selling out"

3. Shadow Rejection
- Denying or suppressing "non-acceptable" parts of self
- Difficulty integrating healthy hierarchies or power
- Overcorrecting against previous value systems

4. Growth Areas:
- Developing practical action alongside empathy
- Building capacity for healthy boundaries
- Learning to integrate multiple perspectives without losing effectiveness
- Finding balance between inclusion and decision-making
- Accepting human imperfection while maintaining growth mindset

Specific Examples:

1. Paralysis by Processing:
- A non-profit board spending months discussing a simple policy change because every member must feel fully heard
- A team leader unable to make project decisions without unanimous agreement
- School committees extending meetings indefinitely to process everyone's feelings
- Community projects stalling because consensus can't be reached on minor details

2. Idealistic Perfectionism:
- An activist burning out because they feel they must attend every social justice event
- A teacher becoming depressed because they can't solve all their students' personal problems
- An environmentalist feeling guilty for occasionally using plastic
- Someone rejecting potential allies because they're not "conscious enough"

3. Shadow Rejection:
- A diversity advocate being intolerant towards traditional viewpoints
- A peace activist becoming aggressive towards those who disagree
- A communal living space refusing to establish any leadership structure
- Rejecting all forms of competition as "toxic"

4. Growth Examples:
From:
- Insisting on processing everyone's feelings about changing the office coffee brand
To:
- Learning to balance inclusion with practical time constraints

From:
- Rejecting all hierarchy as oppressive
To:
- Understanding the value of earned expertise and healthy leadership

From:
- Being paralyzed by guilt over cultural appropriation
To:
- Learning to appreciate and respect cultures while engaging authentically

From:
- Refusing to make decisions without group consensus
To:
- Developing skills to make timely decisions while honoring multiple perspectives

Would you like me to explore any particular aspect of Green development in more detail?

Is chatgpt also good for this?