How do I integrate Red without actually becoming Red?

[caspex]

I have been feeling a strong pull down the spiral for the past year and I feel it's coming from unintegrated shadows in stages red to orange.

I have the most massive shadow in Red.

It's really unconvinient as it's hard to embody blue qualities because of that and integrating up the spiral.

I want to master Red but I don't actually want to sabotage my relationships by acting Red.

I have low confidence and possess insecurities that stems mostly from the Red shadow. I can easily break out of it if I am emodying Red, but not when I am living usually.

It was due to some exceptional circumstances of isolation that lead me to actualized and develop some stuff in the higher stages. But the truth is that I am very underdeveloped and want to use this forum and SD as a leverage to accelerate my growth, even if it takes a few years.

Can anyone please guide me in this matter? Especially in integrating Red.

 

[James123]

17 minutes ago, caspex said:

I have been feeling a strong pull down the spiral for the past year and I feel it's coming from unintegrated shadows in stages red to orange.

I have the most massive shadow in Red.

It's really unconvinient as it's hard to embody blue qualities because of that and integrating up the spiral.

I want to master Red but I don't actually want to sabotage my relationships by acting Red.

I have low confidence and possess insecurities that stems mostly from the Red shadow. I can easily break out of it if I am emodying Red, but not when I am living usually.

It was due to some exceptional circumstances of isolation that lead me to actualized and develop some stuff in the higher stages. But the truth is that I am very underdeveloped and want to use this forum and SD as a leverage to accelerate my growth, even if it takes a few years.

Can anyone please guide me in this matter? Especially in integrating Red.

 

Whatever you afraid of go to and do the opposite.

[Eph75]

@caspex

How do you make up this lack of integration of red/red shadow aspects show up in your life? 

Some general things to engage with:

Engage in conflict where you otherwise would stand back and selling yourself short. 

Set boundaries powerfully, Inwardly and outwardly. 

Give yourself a voice, and speak up your authentic mind without fear. 

Say NO when that's what you intuit, respecting self over risking letting others expectations down. 

Practice daily so that you can engage with your powerful self with ease. 

Don't confuse being powerful with being forceful or engaging with some kind of aggression. 

Doing this will build self-esteem, being authentic and putting who you really are on display for others to engage with. 

Edited Thursday at 10:08 AM by Eph75

[Ninja_pig]

I think when it comes to integrating a previous stage, it's not about trying to act out that stage, but trying to understand it, embrace it, and accept it. What you have to do is bring up these shadow qualities within yourself, and understand where they are coming from. Then you must fully accept them into your own identity/being, and then you will have the ability to transcend into the blue stage. You can identify shadow elements in yourself by seeing the insecurities you have or negative qualities you project into others. Usually our projections are actually just the unwanted qualities within ourselves.

 

A technique for working though your shadow is using the "3 2 1" method proposed by Ken Wilber.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://bhavanalearninggroup.com/wp-content/uploads/321-Process-for-the-Shadow.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwix5Yn6x9uJAxUIMtAFHULZIY4QFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Cq9RxBkWRsdpQcNQ7BocK

[Ninja_pig]

Also, I believe it might be quite difficult to really understand spiral dynamics from the stage blue vantage point. You might not be stage blue but stage green or something like that. Few adults in modern America are stage red. It's primitive by today's standards. It might be best for you right now to use religion to move beyond that stage, rather than the advice of integral psychology. Embody the best you can the values of Christianity or Hinduism or whatever your faith may be.

[caspex]

On 14/11/2024 at 3:25 PM, Eph75 said:

@caspex

How do you make up this lack of integration of red/red shadow aspects show up in your life? 

Some general things to engage with:

Engage in conflict where you otherwise would stand back and selling yourself short. 

Set boundaries powerfully, Inwardly and outwardly. 

Give yourself a voice, and speak up your authentic mind without fear. 

Say NO when that's what you intuit, respecting self over risking letting others expectations down. 

Practice daily so that you can engage with your powerful self with ease. 

Don't confuse being powerful with being forceful or engaging with some kind of aggression. 

Doing this will build self-esteem, being authentic and putting who you really are on display for others to engage with. 

The way it affects me is through lower self confidence.  When I engage in a conversation with someone I hate to be loud and make assumptions about the other person, as I don't want to veer into a conversation I never intended for.

Often, I think of myself as inferior in a given topic when engaging with someone in real life, unless the topic is something akin to Spirituality or Metaphysics.
I feel too scared to make broad generalizations and statement about any matter in a physical conversation, be it related to the person at hand or any situation. I don't possess this fear in online discourse due to anonymity.

Actually, even if my face and name was out here online, I'd still not feel scared due to the time I can take to think in crafting a response, I can even be assertive online.

The biggest sign of my Red Shadow is my inability to be assertive in a physical conversation. I can do it if it's a close friend, but not with anyone else. Often times I need to assert something false to get my way, but I just cannot do it. Moreover, whenever I do act powerful, I become intensely self-aware and mess it up. I have no problem with saying no, it starts when I need to manage someone to get something done.
It's like I am always worried about if the next thing I say is respectful or not, what if it's too rude?

This sort of stems from my parents scolding me whenever I was assertive towards them. I was never assertive to anyone in my friend circle up until a few years ago where I gained some sudden confidence(limited to people I am close with, since I can estimate how rude I am allowed to be).

The way I know it's a red shadow is that often times, the reason I am not able to control others and assert myself even when I am wrong, is not because of any morals, it's because I am too scared too.


I think I'll take your advice of actively engaging in conflict without avoiding it. I'll face my fears.

[caspex]

On 14/11/2024 at 3:31 PM, Ninja_pig said:

I think when it comes to integrating a previous stage, it's not about trying to act out that stage, but trying to understand it, embrace it, and accept it. What you have to do is bring up these shadow qualities within yourself, and understand where they are coming from. Then you must fully accept them into your own identity/being, and then you will have the ability to transcend into the blue stage. You can identify shadow elements in yourself by seeing the insecurities you have or negative qualities you project into others. Usually our projections are actually just the unwanted qualities within ourselves.

 

A technique for working though your shadow is using the "3 2 1" method proposed by Ken Wilber.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://bhavanalearninggroup.com/wp-content/uploads/321-Process-for-the-Shadow.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwix5Yn6x9uJAxUIMtAFHULZIY4QFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Cq9RxBkWRsdpQcNQ7BocK

@Ninja_pig Thank you very much for the resource, I'll incorporate it in my life!

 

On 14/11/2024 at 3:35 PM, Ninja_pig said:

Also, I believe it might be quite difficult to really understand spiral dynamics from the stage blue vantage point. You might not be stage blue but stage green or something like that. Few adults in modern America are stage red. It's primitive by today's standards. It might be best for you right now to use religion to move beyond that stage, rather than the advice of integral psychology. Embody the best you can the values of Christianity or Hinduism or whatever your faith may be.

Yeah I agree. As I mentioned earlier, it's not that I am stuck at Stage Red or Blue. I have developed some aspects in the higher stages and usually sit somewhere between Orange and Green.
I have been actively trying to use religion for the past year, following a daily ritual and all. But it has become apparent that my Red Shadows are preventing me from mastering Blue and Orange.
These shadows manifest as me embodying the unhealthy aspects of Red, in order to feel Red, as I have not integrated it yet. Which means I often don't follow through with my goals, act impulsively and let down the people I care about, because that's my Red Shadow telling me, "Who cares? Don't think too long ahead, it doesn't matter." Giving me crazy nearsightedness in respect of my goals and ambitions.

If somebody saw how I act in my daily life, they'll certainly think I am an asshole, and a person who acts mad shit for someone who can't even assert himself.


TLDR; I have many aspects of unhealthy Red, but almost none of the Healthy Red. This must be due to a shadow.

Edited yesterday at 05:15 AM by caspex

[Eph75]

17 minutes ago, caspex said:

This sort of stems from my parents scolding me whenever I was assertive towards them. I was never assertive to anyone in my friend circle up until a few years ago where I gained some sudden confidence(limited to people I am close with, since I can estimate how rude I am allowed to be).

Thus denying yourself being powerful, creating a stigma around it, likely experiencing shame and guilt when needing to be assertive. You denying yourself to be assertive, choosing words like you did here, "estimate how rude I am allowed to be", when the aim isn't at all about being rude, that'd be a different kind of shadow if you went around and were an arrogant, rude asshole to people, and it holding you back in some way. 

This being the opposite, about powerfully asserting that which prevent things to overstep your inner or outer boundaries, and push back. 

Notice how the external boundaries in this case is about others overstepping into your space, you selling yourself short, not standing up to your beliefs and values and so on. 

But be equally careful about you yourself overstepping your inner boundaries, deminishong your ourself with the result of your authentic self operating from a progressively shrinking space, rather than creating plenty of space for your self-expression and normalizing that. 

Edited yesterday at 05:17 AM by Eph75

[Shodburrito]

@caspex Lean into it. Stop repressing it. Become a stage red maniac

[Carl-Richard]

You use your sense. Imagine what an emotionally mature person is and try to embody that.

For Red specifically, some useful concepts are proactive vs reactive aggression. Are you able to say "no" when somebody is violating your personal autonomy, e.g. violating your personal space or want you to act against your values? That's reactive aggression. Some of that is needed to survive. But remember to always couch it in nuance. Generally, don't make aggression your go-to solution. Mostly, it should to be a last resort. Rationality should lead.

Are you able to do things that might cause discomfort to somebody else but which might be right in the bigger picture? Are you able to step in and say "no" to somebody who you see is violating somebody else's personal autonomy? Are you able to assert yourself and claim situations, things; to reach out and take? That's proactive aggression. In my personal experience, this one is more tricky to calibrate in a way that does not discount some other values you hold. I would therefore also suggest additional caution when dealing with it, as it can have some definite consequences if done indiscriminately.

The trick for many people who feel they lack aggression is that they habitually repress the feeling or aim it inwards towards themselves (internalization). So a part of the job for those people is to learn to identify when the aggression arises and then intentionally express it outwards at the intended target (externalization). This might require some experimentation and testing to calibrate, but over time as you unwind the habitual repression and/or internalization, you can focus more on applying it in the right situations.

Edited yesterday at 12:55 PM by Carl-Richard

[Oeaohoo]

13 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

You use your sense. Imagine what an emotionally mature person is and try to embody that.

For Red specifically, some useful concepts are proactive vs reactive aggression. Are you able to say "no" when somebody is violating your personal autonomy, e.g. violating your personal space or want you to act against your values? That's reactive aggression. Some of that is needed to survive. But remember to always couch it in nuance. Generally, don't make aggression your go-to solution. Mostly, it should to be a last resort. Rationality should lead.

Are you able to do things that might cause discomfort to somebody else but which might be right in the bigger picture? Are you able to step in and say "no" to somebody who you see is violating somebody else's personal autonomy? Are you able to assert yourself and claim situations, things; to reach out and take? That's proactive aggression. In my personal experience, this one is more tricky to calibrate in a way that does not discount some other values you hold. I would therefore also suggest additional caution when dealing with it, as it can have some definite consequences if done indiscriminately.

The trick for many people who feel they lack aggression is that they habitually repress the feeling or aim it inwards towards themselves (internalization). So a part of the job for those people is to learn to identify when the aggression arises and then intentionally express it outwards at the intended target (externalization). This might require some experimentation and testing to calibrate, but over time as you unwind the habitual repression and/or internalization, you can focus more on applying it in the right situations.

I’ve been thinking about this recently, nice answer.