Are genders needed?

[Spiritual Warfare]

7 minutes ago, Nemra said:

If gender identities were only social constructions, then people would have been completely changing their identities under different environments.

Whether you are a man, woman, transgender, nonbinary, etc., it's because of your biology and not only social construction.

Biology is a major factor, but it’s not the whole picture. Gender identity is shaped by how people perceive themselves, and how society teaches us to relate to gender roles. For many, their identity is not simply tied to their biology. It’s influenced by a combination of their experiences, their environment, and the expectations around them.

[Nemra]

19 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

Biology is a major factor, but it’s not the whole picture. Gender identity is shaped by how people perceive themselves, and how society teaches us to relate to gender roles. For many, their identity is not simply tied to their biology. It’s influenced by a combination of their experiences, their environment, and the expectations around them.

Overall, I agree.

Still, gender identities aren't completely socially constructed.

Why is there even a problem with accepting LGBTQ people?

Did they one day construct their identities out of thin air?

I was trying to clear up the confusion that cisgender people are likely to do in that they can think that their gender identity is completely biological and view the other ones as completely socially constructed. Am I wrong?

Edited Thursday at 04:23 PM by Nemra

[Princess Arabia]

These debates can go on forever. When it comes to survival, we all have different motives and agendas. What we identify as becomes something one is surviving. A male turned female in appearance will try to survive the male identity and vice versa. It's not about what we think is needed but what are we surviving as. There are also some who identify as neither and still has to keep that "no identity" identity alive. 

So, to answer the OP's question, no, gender isn't needed because it's already the case; the survival of what we identify as is what's needed for that entity to stay alive or it dies. Who wants death. We are not surviving a body, but every single identity we ascribe to ourselves. The body survives and dies on it's own. Identities depends on you to live. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

5 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Overall, I agree.

Still, gender identities aren't completely socially constructed.

Why is there even a problem with accepting LGBTQ people?

Did they one day construct their identities out of thin air?

I was trying to clear up the confusion that cisgender people are likely to do in that they can think that their gender identity is completely biological and view the other ones as completely socially constructed.

There’s a misconception that gender identity is entirely biological, especially for cisgender people, and that anything outside that must be socially constructed. But in reality, it’s a mix of factors like biology, experiences, and how we relate to the world. LGBTQ+ identities are real and they’re not just fabricated.

 

 

[Nemra]

👍

[Spiritual Warfare]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

These debates can go on forever. When it comes to survival, we all have different motives and agendas. What we identify as becomes something one is surviving. A male turned female in appearance will try to survive the male identity and vice versa. It's not about what we think is needed but what are we surviving as. There are also some who identify as neither and still has to keep that "no identity" identity alive. 

So, to answer the OP's question, no, gender isn't needed because it's already the case; the survival of what we identify as is what's needed for that entity to stay alive or it dies. Who wants death. We are not surviving a body, but every single identity we ascribe to ourselves. The body survives and dies on it's own. Identities depends on you to live. 

I get what you’re saying about how we need a sense of self to navigate life, but that doesn’t mean we should be stuck with labels. People change and evolve, and our identities don’t have to be set in stone. It’s not about getting rid of identity altogether, but creating space where everyone can just be themselves without feeling like they have to fit into some box. Ideally, we’d live in a world where identities don’t hold us back, but instead let us express who we really are, without all the pressure.

 

 

[Spiritual Warfare]

Just now, Nemra said:

👍

👍

[Princess Arabia]

13 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

I get what you’re saying about how we need a sense of self to navigate life, but that doesn’t mean we should be stuck with labels. People change and evolve, and our identities don’t have to be set in stone. It’s not about getting rid of identity altogether, but creating space where everyone can just be themselves without feeling like they have to fit into some box. Ideally, we’d live in a world where identities don’t hold us back, but instead let us express who we really are, without all the pressure.

 

 

Agreed. Never said otherwise.

[Spiritual Warfare]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

Agreed. Never said otherwise.

🥳

[martin_malin]

Genders are useful illusions for playing the game to its fullest, but we are ultimately genderless.  That said, If someone identify as ''they'' I'm going to honour their desire and be respectful as its their current truth.  No drama there.  I find it way more fun to identify as a ''it'' or a spark of light in a male body. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

1 minute ago, martin_malin said:

Genders are useful illusions for playing the game to its fullest, but we are ultimately genderless.  That said, If someone identify as ''they'' I'm going to honour their desire and be respectful as its their current truth.  No drama there.  I find it way more fun to identify as a ''it'' or a spark of light in a male body. 

Wonderful.

[Adrian colby]

16 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

For me, though, I think society might be less divided if we put less emphasis on gender and labels. Maybe it’s idealistic, but I believe we could all benefit from focusing on who we are as individuals, beyond labels. Either way, it’s good to talk about it.

I’ve long been aware of identity being a false attribute to my existence owing to ‘The ship of Theseus’ philosophy. I’m embodied in an ongoing and ever changing ‘process’, a pattern that arises, stays moderately coherent and then will one day disappear into a larger pattern ( the earth and eventually back to stillness) so attaching a rigid concept to this doesn’t make any sense to me.  

clinging rigidly to an identity including a gender identity has been one of those limitations I’ve overcome on my journey and yet, to some extent, for the purposes of interacting with others ( or the preference/story/dream I participate in) I have had to conform to recognisable social and cultural concepts in order to be accepted and integrate into my local humanity. ( play a character or a role, as you will)
 

This body is both biologically male and female but in order for it to be medically healthy, it has to adhere to the sex of its neurology and the feeding of receptors with the correct ratio of sex hormone that aids in the regulation of mood, cognitive function and behaviour. When this was not being treated, the level of ‘dysphoria’ was severe. ( it’s one of the main reasons that many sexual disorders are treated with HRT )
 

this manifested in the extreme expression of a ‘man’ gender identity and role to the absolute obliteration of anything feminine or female. This was a behavioural backlash to the constant dismissal of masculinity, lack of acknowledgment of masculinity, and constant insistence of femininity by others. You could say I was overcompensating for the ignorance of others which wasn’t psychologically or spiritually healthy. 

I knew at an intuitive level that my neurology was male and it was said to doctors and therapists several times before it appeared in research. over the years, things such as genetic mutation, neurology and in my specific case, gonadal dysgenesis were confirmed when I was both treated and participated in ‘transgender’ studies at various hospitals in Europe. 
 

my goal was to get treated, get healthy, get stable again, and integrate back into society( get on with life as ‘normal’ as possible). This meant NOT conforming to LGBT culture or creating a new identity. It was ‘man’ and nothing else. 
 

if I wanted to be accepted as being male then why would I go around claiming to be transgender or any of the 50+ gender variants and expect to be treated normally? It never sat well with me why the others did thus but I do understand now, why that is. My social and sexual role was to be complementary opposition to my female counterpart which I did very successfully until I started going through awakenings and the healing began. The fight to be accepted led to toxic masculinity and a spoilt ego. As I started to target methods to discern what was true, I tore the self apart and ended up facing infinity/ void/ awareness, whatever people like to call it and everything became clear. The structure and meaning to humanity was clear. 
 

I see myself at three layers. The ultimate awareness that encapsulates everything including the smaller more focused awareness that sees from an individuated vantage point ( everyone and everything is ultimately this when they contract consciousness back to pure awareness. There is no distinction, we are all individuated expressions of this one having a discovery of experiences)

The second layer is a biological process that has manifested in a both male and female form ( even though allot of surgery has been done to align with the male, there is little to nothing female left). Even after glimpses of enlightenment, this has not changed as it is the form that this one is experiencing, choice or not. It is fully embodied, enjoyed and celebrated. 

And then the third layer is the identity through which it interacts, relates to and distinguishes itself, uses to navigate life, its preferences and choices to have experiences to learn and grow from. ( the little persona or mask that moves from one experience to another) . The personality is recognised as fluid as in behaviour/beleifs/epistemology and it is not so rigidly set that it cannot change that if something is not working and needs to be changed. 
 

( I could elaborate into the self decepted or delusional but I won’t discuss it here as I think it’s part of a ‘lost’ or dominating ego pattern less present after awakenings or personal development)

identity can be anything to distinguish someone apart from others for the purposes of interacting/ relating but the stress of rigidly clinging to it and constantly trying to defend creates a historical trauma or habitual bad behavior towards others. This is where so many go wrong and end up as entitled spoilt brats or the generic description of woke. 
 

the woke have realised owing to their stage of cultural development that they have been living in a conceptually constructed matrix and while trying to liberate from it, have trapped themselves in a more expanded range of identity.

i don’t see it as wrong, rather, it’s part of a stage that the culture will grow out of eventually and as you say, people will eventually come to terms with the universe expressing itself in infinitely diverse ways and no labels needed cause you can’t categorise infinity. 

There are those that use gender identity to describe their personal and there are those who use it to describe their underlying biological manifestation ( which is not always just male or just female)

perhapse the 50+ categorisations are an attempt by individuals to express that their biology is simply not the same as the next person and the ego really needs justification for that existence?

[Spiritual Warfare]

13 minutes ago, Adrian colby said:

I’ve long been aware of identity being a false attribute to my existence owing to ‘The ship of Theseus’ philosophy. I’m embodied in an ongoing and ever changing ‘process’, a pattern that arises, stays moderately coherent and then will one day disappear into a larger pattern ( the earth and eventually back to stillness) so attaching a rigid concept to this doesn’t make any sense to me.  

clinging rigidly to an identity including a gender identity has been one of those limitations I’ve overcome on my journey and yet, to some extent, for the purposes of interacting with others ( or the preference/story/dream I participate in) I have had to conform to recognisable social and cultural concepts in order to be accepted and integrate into my local humanity. ( play a character or a role, as you will)
 

This body is both biologically male and female but in order for it to be medically healthy, it has to adhere to the sex of its neurology and the feeding of receptors with the correct ratio of sex hormone that aids in the regulation of mood, cognitive function and behaviour. When this was not being treated, the level of ‘dysphoria’ was severe. ( it’s one of the main reasons that many sexual disorders are treated with HRT )
 

this manifested in the extreme expression of a ‘man’ gender identity and role to the absolute obliteration of anything feminine or female. This was a behavioural backlash to the constant dismissal of masculinity, lack of acknowledgment of masculinity, and constant insistence of femininity by others. You could say I was overcompensating for the ignorance of others which wasn’t psychologically or spiritually healthy. 

I knew at an intuitive level that my neurology was male and it was said to doctors and therapists several times before it appeared in research. over the years, things such as genetic mutation, neurology and in my specific case, gonadal dysgenesis were confirmed when I was both treated and participated in ‘transgender’ studies at various hospitals in Europe. 
 

my goal was to get treated, get healthy, get stable again, and integrate back into society( get on with life as ‘normal’ as possible). This meant NOT conforming to LGBT culture or creating a new identity. It was ‘man’ and nothing else. 
 

if I wanted to be accepted as being male then why would I go around claiming to be transgender or any of the 50+ gender variants and expect to be treated normally? It never sat well with me why the others did thus but I do understand now, why that is. My social and sexual role was to be complementary opposition to my female counterpart which I did very successfully until I started going through awakenings and the healing began. The fight to be accepted led to toxic masculinity and a spoilt ego. As I started to target methods to discern what was true, I tore the self apart and ended up facing infinity/ void/ awareness, whatever people like to call it and everything became clear. The structure and meaning to humanity was clear. 
 

I see myself at three layers. The ultimate awareness that encapsulates everything including the smaller more focused awareness that sees from an individuated vantage point ( everyone and everything is ultimately this when they contract consciousness back to pure awareness. There is no distinction, we are all individuated expressions of this one having a discovery of experiences)

The second layer is a biological process that has manifested in a both male and female form ( even though allot of surgery has been done to align with the male, there is little to nothing female left). Even after glimpses of enlightenment, this has not changed as it is the form that this one is experiencing, choice or not. It is fully embodied, enjoyed and celebrated. 

And then the third layer is the identity through which it interacts, relates to and distinguishes itself, uses to navigate life, its preferences and choices to have experiences to learn and grow from. ( the little persona or mask that moves from one experience to another) . The personality is recognised as fluid as in behaviour/beleifs/epistemology and it is not so rigidly set that it cannot change that if something is not working and needs to be changed. 
 

( I could elaborate into the self decepted or delusional but I won’t discuss it here as I think it’s part of a ‘lost’ or dominating ego pattern less present after awakenings or personal development)

identity can be anything to distinguish someone apart from others for the purposes of interacting/ relating but the stress of rigidly clinging to it and constantly trying to defend creates a historical trauma or habitual bad behavior towards others. This is where so many go wrong and end up as entitled spoilt brats or the generic description of woke. 
 

the woke have realised owing to their stage of cultural development that they have been living in a conceptually constructed matrix and while trying to liberate from it, have trapped themselves in a more expanded range of identity.

i don’t see it as wrong, rather, it’s part of a stage that the culture will grow out of eventually and as you say, people will eventually come to terms with the universe expressing itself in infinitely diverse ways and no labels needed cause you can’t categorise infinity. 

There are those that use gender identity to describe their personal and there are those who use it to describe their underlying biological manifestation ( which is not always just male or just female)

perhapse the 50+ categorisations are an attempt by individuals to express that their biology is simply not the same as the next person and the ego really needs justification for that existence?

Thank you for this lengthy comment. There is a lot of wisdom in the text, and the open-minded thinking is definitely worth discussing further.

[Adrian colby]

4 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

Thank you for this lengthy comment. There is a lot of wisdom in the text, and the open-minded thinking is definitely worth discussing further.

It has been interesting seeing and understanding it from the inside. Going from atheistic to spiritual has revealed the level of self deception that everyone falls into.  Being a left progressive hating the right and suddenly aligning with the right ( not identifying as) and hating the idiocy of the left but also transcending both to see and understand both perspectives to synthesise a higher vantage point and understand the dynamic leading to a love and acceptance of it all.   Personal development and spirituality with hyper logic and reason alongside allowed me to remain vigilant but the one thing that showed me how delusional the spiritual community were was when my own beloved community started attacking people with gender disorders ( in conversation and debate) while I was sitting right there and known to them. It became clear that there was ‘religious’ infiltration of authentic spirituality which has slowly got worse over the last 5 years. Influence of individuals highly susceptible to belief who could be swayed by panic and fear despite the reality of the situation being a direct experience of me that had never caused a single problem… just thrown out the window with not an ounce of critical contemplation for a ‘let’s wipe them off the face of the earth because of the ‘agenda’ conspiracy. It was so easy for them to just play traitor to their values of live compassion and understanding. 
 

I love old Greek philosophy which painstakingly and methodically worked back to the ‘agathon’ ( source/infinity) using hyper logic and reason. Like platonic retroduction or the neti neti method. It was a very fast and intense pathway to having the elusive, sober glimpse of enlightenment. 
something I’ve been revered for teaching in my community and constantly tackling to bring them back into balance with. 
 

my personal battle is not devolving into any negative or judgmental mindset that would be associated with my characters predicament. At the end of the day, no one knows other than if I tell them which means it only exists as an idea. The reality is as I present to the world and even that doesn’t matter. What matters is that I remain balanced and continue to teach and encourage love compassion and understanding. If something is not known it is better to learn about it than become fearful and eventually hateful. It is all allowed and each individual won’t be coerced as it is their inherent right to just be until a time they are ready and enthusiastic to learn and discover, to become endlessly curious about everything. To find out how it works instead of forcing it to bend to their way. 
 

we learn and we teach but we never coerce a child to move beyond their educational level( people in general) and I found a lot of peace in that. 

[Yimpa]

A crude analogy:

you can kind of think of gender fluidity as dual citizenship. They don’t have to be part of just one. And depending on where you are can be a vastly different experience. 

[Porphyry Fedotov]

With all due respect, but biological sex is also socially constructed. It's a made-up distinction with yeah some usefulness to it. But still, some "biological women" naturally produce for example a lot of testosterone. They can be a Navi seal and do any job a biological man do. Also, in the USSR women worked almost all the heavy jobs that men did, as Soviet ideology included feminism as well. And it worked. Women worked in construction for example and served even in Army. Like during WWII there were a lot of distinguished women with hundreds of confirmed kills. My grandma served as a soldier in WW2, so it isn't that simple

[Spiritual Warfare]

On 2024-11-14 at 8:04 PM, Adrian colby said:

It has been interesting seeing and understanding it from the inside. Going from atheistic to spiritual has revealed the level of self deception that everyone falls into.  Being a left progressive hating the right and suddenly aligning with the right ( not identifying as) and hating the idiocy of the left but also transcending both to see and understand both perspectives to synthesise a higher vantage point and understand the dynamic leading to a love and acceptance of it all.   Personal development and spirituality with hyper logic and reason alongside allowed me to remain vigilant but the one thing that showed me how delusional the spiritual community were was when my own beloved community started attacking people with gender disorders ( in conversation and debate) while I was sitting right there and known to them. It became clear that there was ‘religious’ infiltration of authentic spirituality which has slowly got worse over the last 5 years. Influence of individuals highly susceptible to belief who could be swayed by panic and fear despite the reality of the situation being a direct experience of me that had never caused a single problem… just thrown out the window with not an ounce of critical contemplation for a ‘let’s wipe them off the face of the earth because of the ‘agenda’ conspiracy. It was so easy for them to just play traitor to their values of live compassion and understanding. 
 

I love old Greek philosophy which painstakingly and methodically worked back to the ‘agathon’ ( source/infinity) using hyper logic and reason. Like platonic retroduction or the neti neti method. It was a very fast and intense pathway to having the elusive, sober glimpse of enlightenment. 
something I’ve been revered for teaching in my community and constantly tackling to bring them back into balance with. 
 

my personal battle is not devolving into any negative or judgmental mindset that would be associated with my characters predicament. At the end of the day, no one knows other than if I tell them which means it only exists as an idea. The reality is as I present to the world and even that doesn’t matter. What matters is that I remain balanced and continue to teach and encourage love compassion and understanding. If something is not known it is better to learn about it than become fearful and eventually hateful. It is all allowed and each individual won’t be coerced as it is their inherent right to just be until a time they are ready and enthusiastic to learn and discover, to become endlessly curious about everything. To find out how it works instead of forcing it to bend to their way. 
 

we learn and we teach but we never coerce a child to move beyond their educational level( people in general) and I found a lot of peace in that. 

What stood out most to me is what you said about fear creeping into spiritual communities. It’s so disappointing how quickly compassion and understanding can be replaced by judgment when fear takes over. I can imagine how painful it must have been to experience that so directly, especially from people you thought shared your values.

I really appreciate your perspective on allowing people to grow and learn in their own time instead of forcing change. That kind of patience and acceptance is rare.

 

[Spiritual Warfare]

21 hours ago, Yimpa said:

A crude analogy:

you can kind of think of gender fluidity as dual citizenship. They don’t have to be part of just one. And depending on where you are can be a vastly different experience. 

That’s an interesting analogy. Thank you for sharing that perspective

 

[Spiritual Warfare]

11 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

With all due respect, but biological sex is also socially constructed. It's a made-up distinction with yeah some usefulness to it. But still, some "biological women" naturally produce for example a lot of testosterone. They can be a Navi seal and do any job a biological man do. Also, in the USSR women worked almost all the heavy jobs that men did, as Soviet ideology included feminism as well. And it worked. Women worked in construction for example and served even in Army. Like during WWII there were a lot of distinguished women with hundreds of confirmed kills. My grandma served as a soldier in WW2, so it isn't that simple

I don’t agree that we should continue to uphold the rigid gender categories we have today. Sure, there are women who are capable of the same physical tasks as men, and I don’t want to downplay that. But my argument is that gender should not be the deciding factor in what people can or can’t do. It seems to me that we should be moving toward a system that evaluates individuals based on their actual abilities, rather than relying on outdated categories that no longer serve us in a modern, inclusive society.

 

 

[Brittany]

1 hour ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

We should be moving toward a system that evaluates individuals based on their actual abilities

I agree.

We need to be looking at people on an individual basis.

For example, if you watch True Crime, you will see many videos of Women who kill their own children, spouses, friends, parents etc.

Maybe the "All women are nurturing"  statement shouldn't be applied towards them. 

And some women will perform the stereotype and pretend to be nurturing but you can see the fakeness in their smiles and the fakeness as they try to comfort others. There is no warmth under the nurturing actions.  Underneath the act is an ego playing the role it thinks it needs to play to be accepted and loved.

A lot of gender roles and stereotypes become very performative.

We often perform gender roles and imitate gender stereotypes in order to be safe, loved, chosen, wanted, desired and protected.

Sometimes we force ourselves into the "ideal woman" and "ideal man" boxes, even when our entire spirit is rejecting the box, because our ego can't handle not being seen as ideal.

And the more the government/politicians get involved in enforcing gender roles, the more pretending and faking of gender roles/stereotypes people will have to do in order to survive.

Which only pushes people's authenticity of who they truly are deeper down into the shadow.

Edited Friday at 08:53 PM by Brittany