Are genders needed?

[Javfly33]

1 minute ago, Buck Edwards said:

Why is it mentally ill? Any logical explanation? 

@Buck Edwards:

5 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

 

If your identity is not working for you but against you (it makes you go to a surgeon to change your organs) is that a good use of an identity or is that a bad use of an identity? @Nemra

We all know identity is imaginary, The point of using a identity is that it will work for you, not against you. 

So clearly if is working against you, then your imagination is ruling your life.

When imagination is ruling the life of someone, we usually call that people 'crazy' or that it needs to go to the psychiatrist.

The problem is since 90% of people in this society are as crazy as them, they applaud their crazyness and now we have come to a place the crazyness is normalized. 

 

[Nemra]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Just tell me something, if your identity is not working for you but against you (it makes you go to a surgeon to change your organs) is that a good use of an identity or is that a bad use of an identity?

Changing organs is different than changing your lifestyle to fit your identity.

For me, changing organs is fine as long as they are really suffering and can't just use their will to end the suffering.

It's good as long as your overall health doesn't decline because of it and you have actually thought about it with educated experts.

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

We all know identity is imaginary, The point of using a identity is that it will work for you, not against you.

It seems like you are confusing gender with gender identity.

Genders are constructed to reflect people's identities.

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

The problem is since 90% of people in this society are as crazy as them, they applaud their crazyness and now we have come to a place the crazyness is normalized. 

Trump supporters are insane and they see themselves as normal.

Edited Thursday at 02:17 PM by Nemra

[Buck Edwards]

22 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Buck Edwards:

 

How do you know identity is imaginary? 

[Nemra]

37 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

So clearly if is working against you, then your imagination is ruling your life.

What would you do if you were put with people who rejected your gender identity and, even worse, looked down on or harassed you?

I'm not saying that you should complain 24/7, but you would have to accept that you have to lie to others about who you are too much.

Are you strong enough to maintain dozens of lies about your identity that will help you survive?

[Thought Art]

@Spiritual Warfare You can’t tell me what to do or how to think. I’m a man. Born a man. I’m attracted to women not people with a uterus. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

2 hours ago, Basman said:

Just because a social construct is in essence arbitrary doesn't mean that they aren't functional and serve an important purpose (like money). Man and woman are highly functional social constructs that have stood the test of time for 1000s of years and work effectively for 95% of the population (if note more). Progressives go over board with deconstructing social constructs, throwing out the baby with the bath water while giving no room for debate without devolving it into a culture war. Especially in regards to practical issues like women's bathrooms, transwomen in women's sport, etc.

The problem is that it comes of as frivolous and entitled to demand the rest of society to accommodate a highly niche cohort.  The fact that the trans community comes of as highly inflexible and judgemental might have to do with the high positive correlation of being trans and being autistic (those are traits typical of autistic people).

That said, there's nothing wrong with more fluidity in terms of gender for those who it applies to (and general tolerance for that) but its very entitled to act like all of society needs to change for their sake. Most people are happy being men and women. Why does that need to stop?

Gender has been a social construct for a long time, and it works for a lot of people. But I also think that just because something has been the norm for so long doesn’t mean it’s the best way for everyone. Gender roles, while functional for many, can limit people’s ability to express themselves and create unnecessary pressures.

When it comes to issues like bathrooms or sports, I agree that we need practical solutions that respect everyone’s rights, but we can’t ignore the fact that some people feel boxed in by traditional gender norms. It’s not about taking away from those who are comfortable in their gender, but making room for others to exist authentically.

As for societal change, it’s not about forcing anyone to change or feel uncomfortable. It’s about creating space where people who don’t fit into the traditional gender categories don’t feel invisible or invalid. Just like how we’ve gradually become more accepting of different sexual orientations, we can evolve in our understanding of gender too. It doesn’t need to be a “culture war”  it’s more about creating a society where everyone can just be themselves.

[Spiritual Warfare]

9 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Spiritual Warfare You can’t tell me what to do or how to think. I’m a man. Born a man. I’m attracted to women not people with a uterus. 

I’m not trying to tell anyone how to think or how they should identify, but I’m just suggesting that maybe we can move away from some of these labels and the divisions they create. I think everyone should have the freedom to express who they are without judgment. For me, it’s about focusing on our shared humanity, rather than sticking to rigid categories. It’s about respecting each other’s choices and identities.

[Thought Art]

If false that mind and body are separate. They are a single whole. If you had the body of a dog or tree you’d think like a dog or tree. 
 

Humans are unique as they can express themselves very uniquely and create their own ideology, identity, illusions, stories etc. 
 

The vaste majority of people who are men or women, think like a man or a women and have tendencies that are biologically driven. 
 

There is of course social constructs involved in gender identity and roles. But, I think stage green/ liberal people get lost in their own illusion that gender and sex are completely independent. 
 

This isn’t to hate on anyone, but I have learned I can hold my ground and my own view in this. People who wanna demonize me because I see a world where most people are men and women, and that being normal and healthy as a problem are them confused. 
 

It’s a nuanced area of human understanding. I have respect for people of differing views. But, when they try to tell everyone to think in their twisted liberal fantasy i say no. I will not. I used to. But, after contemplating it I see it’s a delusion on the ego. 

[Thought Art]

6 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

I’m not trying to tell anyone how to think or how they should identify, but I’m just suggesting that maybe we can move away from some of these labels and the divisions they create. I think everyone should have the freedom to express who they are without judgment. For me, it’s about focusing on our shared humanity, rather than sticking to rigid categories. It’s about respecting each other’s choices and identities.

That’s fine. But, I’m saying no. You can not tell us how to think and then tell us how to think. Sneaky sneaky. If you want to do that, that’s fine. And, likely a healthy mind can hold the perspective you share among other perspectives. 
 

Personally, men and women are useful categories because most men and women share enough pattern, and have a biological and social relationship where those categories are useful. 
 

I am wary of this extreme post modernist/ liberalism. Partly because people misuse it and demonize those who are cis gendered and choose to stand and express their opinions that there being men and women is normal and healthy. It’s normal and healthy to be born a man, and be a man, born a woman and be a woman. Are there exceptions that are also healthy? Sure. But, this idea of removing these labels I think is none-sense.

 

What a man is, what a women is can be broad. 

Edited Thursday at 03:38 PM by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

@Spiritual Warfare Part of our shared humanity is the distinctions among us. We all play unique roles in society. We are one, but we are also different. Same same but different. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

Just now, Thought Art said:

That’s fine. But, I’m saying no. You can not tell us how to think and then tell us how to think. Sneaky sneaky. If you want to do that, that’s fine. And, likely a healthy mind can hold the perspective you share among others. 

I have never forced anyone. What I am trying to do is share a perspective and encourage conversation, not impose any particular way of thinking.

[Spiritual Warfare]

Just now, Thought Art said:

@Spiritual Warfare Part of our shared humanity is the distinctions among us. We all play unique roles in society. We are one, but we are also different. Same same but different. 

I like that we are different, yet still a unity. There is beauty in that.

[Thought Art]

@Spiritual Warfare Okay, thanks for clarifying. I come to this conversation with some baggage I admit.

[Basman]

13 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

Gender has been a social construct for a long time, and it works for a lot of people. But I also think that just because something has been the norm for so long doesn’t mean it’s the best way for everyone. Gender roles, while functional for many, can limit people’s ability to express themselves and create unnecessary pressures.

When it comes to issues like bathrooms or sports, I agree that we need practical solutions that respect everyone’s rights, but we can’t ignore the fact that some people feel boxed in by traditional gender norms. It’s not about taking away from those who are comfortable in their gender, but making room for others to exist authentically.

As for societal change, it’s not about forcing anyone to change or feel uncomfortable. It’s about creating space where people who don’t fit into the traditional gender categories don’t feel invisible or invalid. Just like how we’ve gradually become more accepting of different sexual orientations, we can evolve in our understanding of gender too. It doesn’t need to be a “culture war”  it’s more about creating a society where everyone can just be themselves.

Your right. I guess I was preemptively reacting against keyboard warriors. I will however argue that the issue as a whole is overstated to a certain extent.

[Schizophonia]

I am not informed on the matter but most of transsexuals i saw looked more like the corresponding gender of their biological sex that the gender they actually pretend to be.

It's also strange to associate clothes to a gender, clothes are differentiate according to sex because it supposed to fit bone structure.

 

Edited Thursday at 03:49 PM by Schizophonia

[Spiritual Warfare]

14 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

If false that mind and body are separate. They are a single whole. If you had the body of a dog or tree you’d think like a dog or tree. 
 

Humans are unique as they can express themselves very uniquely and create their own ideology, identity, illusions, stories etc. 
 

The vaste majority of people who are men or women, think like a man or a women and have tendencies that are biologically driven. 
 

There is of course social constructs involved in gender identity and roles. But, I think stage green/ liberal people get lost in their own illusion that gender and sex are completely independent. 
 

This isn’t to hate on anyone, but I have learned I can hold my ground and my own view in this. People who wanna demonize me because I see a world where most people are men and women, and that being normal and healthy as a problem are them confused. 
 

It’s a nuanced area of human understanding. I have respect for people of differing views. But, when they try to tell everyone to think in their twisted liberal fantasy i say no. I will not. I used to. But, after contemplating it I see it’s a delusion on the ego. 

A really good comment, I feel the same emotions you’ve experienced.

[Spiritual Warfare]

11 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Spiritual Warfare Okay, thanks for clarifying. I come to this conversation with some baggage I admit.

No worries, my friend. 

[Nemra]

If gender identities were only social constructions, then people would have been completely changing their identities under different environments.

Whether you are a man, woman, transgender, nonbinary, etc., it's because of your biology and not only social construction.

[Spiritual Warfare]

11 minutes ago, Basman said:

Your right. I guess I was preemptively reacting against keyboard warriors. I will however argue that the issue as a whole is overstated to a certain extent.

I agree that sometimes it can feel overblown, especially online.

[Spiritual Warfare]

13 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I am not informed on the matter but most of transsexuals i saw looked more like the corresponding gender of their biological sex that the gender they actually pretend to be.

It's also strange to associate clothes to a gender, clothes are differentiate according to sex because it supposed to fit bone structure.

 

Transgender people are just living authentically. It’s not about pretending. Gender is about identity, and clothing doesn’t define who someone is, it’s just a tool for self-expression.