You Are Not God: A Logical Proof

[Eph75]

@Spiritual Warfare

That's like saying, I know that I make believe, but it's important to keep make believing to understand what's not knowable. 

In a way, breaking free from the dream only to dream up a new more entrapping dream. 

Since this is inherently unknowable, it will remain a newfounded illusion. 

We can have peak experiences, temporary consciousness states that may feel as real as could be, but ultimately it falls into the same trap, mind making up illusions for no other reason than to be let go of.

It is a trap where you can stay spending forever getting lost in conceptualization.

As much fun as it can be - albeit can be helpful to some degree to unfold the journey towards that end of conceptualization, towards unknowing - it's ultimately just distraction.

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:10 PM by Eph75

[Hojo]

@Spiritual Warfare The nothingness does exist. When you turn into nothing you can still think emote and feel but nothing will be doing it. You will see all these things are coming from a source that isn't there or cant be found, therefore it is nothingness and it is experiencing something and it exists.

we think all the information is coming from outside in the world but everything that is experienced is coming from this source of nothing right now. When the outside world goes all sense perceptions go but everything else stays. All the invisible things in the universe that we perceive is coming from the source of nothing. Those dont go anywhere just the idea that these perceptions are coming from somewhere other than nothing is seen to be not true.

Edited Tuesday at 04:12 PM by Hojo

[Spiritual Warfare]

14 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

@Spiritual Warfare

That's like saying, I know that I make believe, but it's important to keep make believing to understand what's not knowable. 

In a way, breaking free from the dream only to dream up a new more entrapping dream. 

Since this is inherently unknowable, it will remain a newfounded illusion. 

We can have peak experiences, temporary consciousness states that may feel as real as could be, but ultimately it falls into the same trap, mind making up illusions for no other reason than to be let go of.

It is a trap where you can stay spending forever getting lost in conceptualization.

As much fun as it can be - albeit can be helpful to some degree to unfold the journey towards that end of conceptualization, towards unknowing - it's ultimately just distraction.

 

It seems like you’re pointing to the idea that the mind is constantly making up stories, even in spiritual or peak experiences, and I see the value in recognizing that. However, I think concepts, even though they don’t directly capture the unknowable or ultimate truth, still serve a purpose in guiding us through our experience. We might not be able to grasp the totality of existence with the mind, but the act of conceptualizing allows us to reflect on and navigate our experiences. It’s not about holding onto the concepts forever, but using them to point towards something beyond what we can directly understand. So, I don’t see it as a trap, but more like a tool to explore what can’t fully be known. Yes, it’s a process of unknowing, but even the journey towards that unknowing is part of the experience of being alive.

[Eph75]

16 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

However, I think concepts, even though they don’t directly capture the unknowable or ultimate truth, still serve a purpose in guiding us through our experience.

Yes, for navigation within this dream of ours, concepts and perspectives are tools that can serve some dream-bound purpose.

They should be consciously held as entertainment within that dream navigation, not as truth. And certainly not be mixed up with tools for breaking free from the dream - or - to pass through the gateless gate. 

The question then becomes, are they means within the dream state?

Outside of the dream state there's nothing there except that experience of experiencing / consciousness and it carries no preference or flavor. 

That's the stuff of the dream bound ego. 

The trap is that the more compelling concept you manufacture, the more locked down within that belief you become, while the path forward is dropping the belief paradigm alltogether. 

Edited Tuesday at 04:41 PM by Eph75

[Spiritual Warfare]

27 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Spiritual Warfare The nothingness does exist. When you turn into nothing you can still think emote and feel but nothing will be doing it. You will see all these things are coming from a source that isn't there or cant be found, therefore it is nothingness and it is experiencing something and it exists.

we think all the information is coming from outside in the world but everything that is experienced is coming from this source of nothing right now. When the outside world goes all sense perceptions go but everything else stays. All the invisible things in the universe that we perceive is coming from the source of nothing. Those dont go anywhere just the idea that these perceptions are coming from somewhere other than nothing is seen to be not true.

Even if we say that everything originates from ‘nothing,’ the fact remains that we are still experiencing something: awareness, thoughts, emotions, and that experience is real to us in the moment. To me, the fact that we can think, feel, and be aware points to something more than just a void. Even if these things come from a source that seems unknowable or not tangible, they still exist as experiences within our consciousness. So, while nothingness may be the origin of everything, our awareness of it still exists as something we experience and cannot deny, even if we can’t fully explain it. It’s like saying that we can’t understand where consciousness comes from, but we cannot deny that we are conscious and experiencing.

[Eph75]

@Spiritual Warfare

Yes, you are experiencing, what you are experiencing isn't verifiably true, as it's a subjective interpretation bound to the dream world.

You know this from own experience, for example emotional maturity changes how you emotionally experience the same events today compared with say years ago. The dream narrative keeps evolving. 

You could ask, "why do you share this, isn't this in itself a concept?" and the answer is yes. It is a tool within the dream state that provides a disruption to other concepts that present a more complex trap than a simple one that will be easier to let go after you've accepted it and what else is there to do in here...

Edited Tuesday at 04:44 PM by Eph75

[Spiritual Warfare]

8 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

Yes, for navigation within this dream of ours, concepts and perspectives are tools that can serve some dream-bound purpose.

They should be consciously held as entertainment within that dream navigation, not as truth. And certainly not be mixed up with tools for breaking free from the dream - or - to pass through the gateless gate. 

The question then becomes, are they means within the dream state?

Outside of the dream state there's nothing there except that experience of experiencing / consciousness and it carries no preference or flavor. 

That's the stuff of the dream bound ego. 

The trap is that the more compelling concept you manufacture, the more locked down within that belief you become, while the path forward is dropping the belief paradigm alltogether. 

You could ask, "why do you share this, isn't this in itself a concept?" and the answer is yes. It is a tool within the dream state that provides a disruption to other concepts that present a more complex trap than a simple one that will be easier to let go after you've accepted it  and what else is there to do in here...

They can create traps by locking us into belief systems. However, I still think that concepts have a role in helping us explore and understand the experience of consciousness, even if they are ultimately temporary or illusionary. It’s like we use these tools to point to something that can’t be fully grasped, but without them, we might miss the opportunity to reflect on and make sense of our experiences. I do agree with you that at some point, we need to let go of the concepts and beliefs that bind us to the dream. But perhaps the journey is not just about dropping all concepts, but also recognizing when they are helpful in guiding us toward deeper awareness, and when it’s time to release them.

[Eph75]

@Spiritual Warfare

Sorry, I edited when you posted so I moved part of the text to a new post and now it's kind of messed up. It is what it is 

[Spiritual Warfare]

3 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

@Spiritual Warfare

Sorry, I edited when you posted so I moved part of the text to a new post and now it's kind of messed up. It is what it is 

No worries, my friend.

[Hojo]

@Spiritual Warfare My experience was i was in a void. There were moments where I was aware and I was freaking out and then after I freaked out I would become unaware but still there just not freaking out anymore. Like being awake and being asleep. When in the void you experience states of being awake and then asleep. The only difference is when you are awake there is something to be aware of cause you are freaking out. When there isnt anything to be aware of you see conciousness. Its like looking at a black screen with your eyes taped open not experiencing anything except being there. 

When you become aware again you go omg I have just been staring at nothing  for a long time I wasnt sleeping! And I'm still here ! How many times did I forget I was staring at this thing?! Noooooooo its all there is!

When you go into deep sleep you aren't sleeping you are just staring at nothing. 

Going into the void is like being in deep sleep then waking up and still being in deep sleep but you know you are there and can emote and think there's just nothing for that space to experience. You just have no control over what you are emoting and thinking its just what you are carrying spiritually. In my case it was pure abandonment.

I was screaming in abandonment for what felt like 24 hours straight then I would bubble up and then pop when I popped I was just staring at the void in a sleep state, I would remain here for another 24 hours, then I would 'wake up' or become aware that I was staring at nothing and start over again. It felt like I was there for 3 months.

Slowly the bubble or aware period gets shorter and less extreme and eventually your sleep state and aware state will become the same thing just a void of nothing looking at itself and you are ready to be put into another body. When you are in this state of no mind there's no reference to being a human or being a bird as you will be in a no mind period for like 7, 24 hour periods straight.

Edited yesterday at 02:23 AM by Hojo

[ChrisZoZo]

18 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

I believe that logic leads us to truth. If no logic is correct, how can we possibly progress? Why would existence behave in such a strange and difficult way?

I don’t know if logic will lead you to truth. I know doing 0 logic and simply observing that which is most primary. Will get you to truth. Granted you sort of need logic to apply what I just said. 
 

Not, no logic exists. You can see using logic can get you better outcomes. That matters. Simply put if your logic leads to the incorrect answer then the logic must be flawed is some way.
 

For example Isaac Newton came up with a logical mathematical system of gravity. But it did not lead to the reason why Mercury went so fast. So the prove that the logic is flawed in some way is done by measurements. I and 1000’s of people have verified that they are god absolutely. So logic must get to that conclusion. 

Why would universe would act in a strange way is not more valid of an argument that direct measurement. You have to ignore that go with the evidence. Then after you can try to see why it acts so strange. 

Have you done moojiji invitation? The proof is there it may take 100 times of doing it but it will be revealed. U are that and you are source. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

11 hours ago, Hojo said:

@Spiritual Warfare My experience was i was in a void. There were moments where I was aware and I was freaking out and then after I freaked out I would become unaware but still there just not freaking out anymore. Like being awake and being asleep. When in the void you experience states of being awake and then asleep. The only difference is when you are awake there is something to be aware of cause you are freaking out. When there isnt anything to be aware of you see conciousness. Its like looking at a black screen with your eyes taped open not experiencing anything except being there. 

When you become aware again you go omg I have just been staring at nothing  for a long time I wasnt sleeping! And I'm still here ! How many times did I forget I was staring at this thing?! Noooooooo its all there is!

When you go into deep sleep you aren't sleeping you are just staring at nothing. 

Going into the void is like being in deep sleep then waking up and still being in deep sleep but you know you are there and can emote and think there's just nothing for that space to experience. You just have no control over what you are emoting and thinking its just what you are carrying spiritually. In my case it was pure abandonment.

I was screaming in abandonment for what felt like 24 hours straight then I would bubble up and then pop when I popped I was just staring at the void in a sleep state, I would remain here for another 24 hours, then I would 'wake up' or become aware that I was staring at nothing and start over again. It felt like I was there for 3 months.

Slowly the bubble or aware period gets shorter and less extreme and eventually your sleep state and aware state will become the same thing just a void of nothing looking at itself and you are ready to be put into another body. When you are in this state of no mind there's no reference to being a human or being a bird as you will be in a no mind period for like 7, 24 hour periods straight.

Your experience sounds really intense. The way you describe being in the void, where you’re aware but not really experiencing anything, is something I’ve never thought about before. It must’ve been really unsettling, especially with the feeling of abandonment you mentioned. The whole idea of going through cycles of awareness and unawareness feels like something out of a dream or a deep meditation. It sounds like a strange and heavy experience, but also kind of eye-opening in a way.

[Spiritual Warfare]

2 hours ago, ChrisZoZo said:

I don’t know if logic will lead you to truth. I know doing 0 logic and simply observing that which is most primary. Will get you to truth. Granted you sort of need logic to apply what I just said. 
 

Not, no logic exists. You can see using logic can get you better outcomes. That matters. Simply put if your logic leads to the incorrect answer then the logic must be flawed is some way.
 

For example Isaac Newton came up with a logical mathematical system of gravity. But it did not lead to the reason why Mercury went so fast. So the prove that the logic is flawed in some way is done by measurements. I and 1000’s of people have verified that they are god absolutely. So logic must get to that conclusion. 

Why would universe would act in a strange way is not more valid of an argument that direct measurement. You have to ignore that go with the evidence. Then after you can try to see why it acts so strange. 

Have you done moojiji invitation? The proof is there it may take 100 times of doing it but it will be revealed. U are that and you are source. 

Logic alone doesn’t always lead to the deepest truths, and direct experience can reveal more fundamental realities. As you mentioned, logic can miss certain aspects, and through observation and measurement, we can see its limits. However, I should have been clearer in saying that I don’t mean we can’t understand the absolute truth with logic; rather, there is a level of understanding that shouldn’t be underestimated. I haven’t done Mooji’s Invitation yet, but I’m planning to start. Thank you for mentioning it.

[Breakingthewall]

The logical proof is very simple: existence is infinite, then you are a part of the infinity, any part of the infinity is infinite, then, you are the infinity 

[Razard86]

On 11/12/2024 at 6:44 AM, Spiritual Warfare said:

If you come from potential non-existence, it doesn’t necessarily mean you are eternal. Here’s why:

 

1. Potential Non-Existence is Not the Same as Eternity

 

    •    Potential non-existence simply means you didn’t exist in a concrete, actual form before, but the possibility of your existence was present. This implies that you came into being at a certain point in time and are therefore not eternal.

    •    Having the potential to exist doesn’t mean that you have always existed as an actual being or person. Potential non-existence is a kind of latent state, not a state of eternal existence.

 

2. Eternity Means Existence Without Beginning or End

 

    •    To be eternal means to have always existed and to always exist—without any clear beginning or end. To exist eternally would mean that there has never been a time when you did not exist.

    •    If you come from potential non-existence, it implies that you have a beginning, as there was a point when you didn’t exist as an actual being. Having a beginning contradicts the idea of being eternal.

 

3. Example: The Difference Between Potential and Eternity

 

    •    Think of a seed that has the potential to become a tree. Even though the seed holds the potential for a tree, the tree is not eternal just because it could eventually grow. The tree will have a beginning (when it starts growing) and could also have an end (when it wilts or dies).

    •    In the same way, you had the potential to exist before you actually came into being, but your actual existence has a starting point. Therefore, you are not eternal.

 

4. Potential is Not the Same as Actualized Existence

 

    •    A potential existence is not the same as an actual existence, and existing potentially is not the same as existing eternally. Your existence began when you became actualized, meaning you have a starting point and are therefore not eternal.

 

To come from potential non-existence means that you had the possibility of existing, but it doesn’t mean you are eternal. You had a beginning when you came into being, and eternity is reserved for that which has always existed and will always exist without any starting or ending point.
 

This sounds logical, and even though I unfortunately feel hatred toward God, I have to admit that God exists. You are not eternal, you are created, and you should fear your Creator. Reality is harsh, but this is undeniable. I’m glad I haven’t been brainwashed like so many on this forum. Thank you, ChatGPT. But feel free to try to disprove it if you’d like. 
 

it’s easy for people to fall into the illusion of self-divinity. We often hear ideas like, “We are all gods,” or “I am the master of my own reality.” But if we peel back the layers and confront reality with clear logic, the notion that any of us could truly be God quickly falls apart.

You are trapped in a prison of distinctions.

Non-existence is the same as existence. Invisibility is equal to visibility, appearance is the same non-appearance, and movement is the same as stationary. 

Reality is an infinity frames per second. Movies reveal this truth.

THIS IS GOD. This is INFINITY. This is MIND.

That's what God is.

 

Edited yesterday at 01:46 PM by Razard86

[Spiritual Warfare]

37 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The logical proof is very simple: existence is infinite, then you are a part of the infinity, any part of the infinity is infinite, then, you are the infinity 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

 

[Spiritual Warfare]

28 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You are trapped in a prison of distinctions.

Non-existence is the same as existence. Invisibility is equal to visibility, appearance is the same non-appearance, and movement is the same as stationary. 

Reality is an infinity frames per second. Movies reveal this truth.

THIS IS GOD. This is INFINITY. This is MIND.

That's what God is.

 

Non-existence, by definition, can’t exist, so it can’t have any equivalence to existence. It’s like saying darkness is the same as light. It’s a concept, but not something that can actually be experienced or present in the same way. I think the distinctions are still meaningful in our reality.

 

 

[ChrisZoZo]

5 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

level of understanding that shouldn’t be underestimated.

Nice but can logic get you to that level?

Edited yesterday at 06:22 PM by ChrisZoZo

[Spiritual Warfare]

Just now, ChrisZoZo said:

Nice but can logic get you to that level. 

It’s a question that no one will probably be able to answer, but there’s no harm in trying to figure it out.