If truth is love, why are so many people untruthful in the pursuit of love?

[James123]

10 minutes ago, Vynce said:

This kind of loves feels like the ice cap of a mountain to be climbed with a lot of human sweat.

Of course. The self is a cloud. Without self, sky is beatiful, pure, bliss and empty. 

13 minutes ago, Vynce said:

Alright so tell me, how does one go about integrated love in life.

It is the Life. You have to walk the path brother. Knowing will not help you.

[Evelyna]

@Vynce You know I am not sure if I can agree that LOVE = Truth also. Truth is a funny little thing and turns out meaning of truth can be different for different people, the definition itself is being often bent, and reshaped depending on personal experiences and the meaning we give that word. 

 the perspective I have is this:

1- the effectiveness is a measure of truth - here I mean , when something is effective for me, it is true for me, importance of me is massive here. However I keep this flexible because i may find/discover another way , another something that will be even more effective and then this will become the truth. 

2- love is to be happy with something or someone 

Again this is my individual view.  Another thing worth mentioning is that most people do not understand what it means to love because they do not love themselves first. Here we can easily make a mistake in understanding what love for self or loving yourself means. It means to treat yourself like someone you love, like someone you are happy with. I really believe it starts right there with the self, working on it, developing self love automatically changes your view of the world around you and allows you to experience love in a different way

 

Edited November 12 by Evelyna

[Evelyna]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

@Vynce They will never find the Love. Because, Finding the Love is giving up the self.

Finding love means giving up the self? What kind of love are you referring to? 

[James123]

16 minutes ago, Evelyna said:

Finding love means giving up the self? What kind of love are you referring to? 

You are the love. Self only creates the self. Not self love, i am referring to universal love.

Edited November 12 by James123

[gettoefl]

4 hours ago, Vynce said:

If truth is love, why are so many people untruthful in the pursuit of love?

Ego believes it needs another to be happy

and will do ANYTHING to achieve this end

even to the point of lying and manipulating

and impressively, doing so in complete unconsciousness:

Sure I may be lying but I am doing it for your own good and betterment

You need me just like I need you

We belong together

I am a person who has status and standing

and can make you happy unlike anyone else

Trust me

[gettoefl]

3 hours ago, Vynce said:

Maybe I'm conflating egoic desires with a more existential love. 

However, if this existential love is better than egoic desires, I wonder why even the so called spiritual people rather choose the fulfilment of survival needs over existential love, which might seem untruthful from an outside perspective. 

And if the fulfilment of material needs/survival/desires is not contrary to existential love, why is this need for survival sometimes so damaging towards others? Is it true that we have to betray, deceive and exploit our environment to concentrate on existential love? Thats how I experience my world a lot. I first to have to earn money, social status, sex ect. to fully relax into a more unconditional love. 

And if money, status, sex ect. is not necessary for unconditional love, why does our nervous system stress so much about it? Is our nervous system contrary to unconditional love? And if so, why? Shouldn't our God-given nervous system be in tune with God-given unconditional love?

My point is: 

Why is unconditional love so incompatible with literally EVERYTHING in our human dimension (ego, money, status, sex, will, survival ect.)?

And if this is just like the universe functions, why is EVERYTHING = LOVE?

My worldview right now would say:

Human dimension = Ego, survival, stress, deception, war, will ect.

Spiritual dimension = Love, understanding, insight, compassion ect.

So just some part of Truth = unconditional love. 

Where is my train of thought flawed?

To an ego, giving is getting

To a spirit, giving is accepting

[Evelyna]

@gettoefl Just don’t blow up at me once you read this…. This is my own personal perspective on the subject and I am not trying to convince you to accept the same, we all choose what we believe is true to us, here’s my perspective ; ego isn’t an evil creature praying on us, I can never understand why people make ego in to something they must fight against. It has zero power !!!! Call it what you like , “ego” is nothing more then part of your perception that you have created yourself and so you command it, you decide, ego doesn’t do anything on its own, you make all the decisions when it comes to your behaviour , using ego as an excuse for one’s own decisions is not acceptable to me personally. However you can absolutely create yourself an experience where you turn ego in to a thought form ergo a being of its own within you. Personally I don’t bother with it, nothing within me is dependent on anything else rather then my own thoughts , actions and behaviours, I decide that 😊. 

[Evelyna]

3 hours ago, James123 said:

You are the love. Self only creates the self. Not self love, i am referring to universal love.

Got ya, thanks. However here, on this planet love has some conditions, and here on this planet everything has some rules so the reference to universal love isn’t very relevant here since we are not living out there in the spirit world fully, the non physical,  where rules are most likely very different to here and unconditional universal love is somewhat easy and obvious I guess, here is the planet of limitations and even love is slightly limited to us, that’s the whole point of this experience , to experience what it’s like to not be able to love  universally. 

[James123]

25 minutes ago, Evelyna said:

Got ya, thanks. However here, on this planet love has some conditions, and here on this planet everything has some rules so the reference to universal love isn’t very relevant here since we are not living out there in the spirit world fully, the non physical,  where rules are most likely very different to here and unconditional universal love is somewhat easy and obvious I guess, here is the planet of limitations and even love is slightly limited to us, that’s the whole point of this experience , to experience what it’s like to not be able to love  universally. 

That's your conditioning and excuse. 

You are in the spiritual world. You just take so seriously therefore it seems to be real and suffering world for you.

[gettoefl]

42 minutes ago, Evelyna said:

@gettoefl Just don’t blow up at me once you read this…. This is my own personal perspective on the subject and I am not trying to convince you to accept the same, we all choose what we believe is true to us, here’s my perspective ; ego isn’t an evil creature praying on us, I can never understand why people make ego in to something they must fight against. It has zero power !!!! Call it what you like , “ego” is nothing more then part of your perception that you have created yourself and so you command it, you decide, ego doesn’t do anything on its own, you make all the decisions when it comes to your behaviour , using ego as an excuse for one’s own decisions is not acceptable to me personally. However you can absolutely create yourself an experience where you turn ego in to a thought form ergo a being of its own within you. Personally I don’t bother with it, nothing within me is dependent on anything else rather then my own thoughts , actions and behaviours, I decide that 😊. 

Ego is the unconscious and the instinctual running life on my behalf and telling me it is acting in my best interest to my greatest gain for my highest pleasure

It is not bad just sad that I let it run my life when I can be doing a much better job at it

Thriving not surviving if you will

I do have a choice in this, though if you ask an ego it will say, no sorry you have to live the life destined you

 

Edited November 12 by gettoefl

[Evelyna]

@James123 Suffering? Never! I love my life and love this planet I choose to enjoy this experience clearly a lot more then you do,  I don’t suffer neither do I think my experience here is one of suffering, yes we both spirit and physical , and while I get to be here in this experience wether it is an illusion or not I choose to just experience everything in the present moment as much as I can, this does not mean I suffer. 

[Evelyna]

4 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

Ego is the unconscious and the instinctual running life on my behalf and telling me it is acting in my best interest to my greatest gain for my highest pleasure

It is not bad just sad that I let it run my life when I can be doing a much better job at it

Thriving not surviving if you will

I do have a choice in this, though if you ask an ego it will say, no sorry you have to live the life destined you

 

I respectfully disagree😊

[James123]

19 minutes ago, Evelyna said:

@James123 Suffering? Never! I love my life and love this planet I choose to enjoy this experience clearly a lot more then you do,  I don’t suffer neither do I think my experience here is one of suffering, yes we both spirit and physical , and while I get to be here in this experience wether it is an illusion or not I choose to just experience everything in the present moment as much as I can, this does not mean I suffer. 

Sure, have fun 😊 by the way if you explain this mu h you definitely suffer a lot. 😂 😂 Lol

Edited November 12 by James123

[Evelyna]

@James123 I  don’t care about your assumptions😊 this was funny , thanks for making me laugh. 

[r0ckyreed]

6 hours ago, Vynce said:

Alright, so you would negate Leo's point "only Truth is equal to Love"? 

Because put precisely, it would be "Everything is Love" - and Love not as a state of goodness in the human realm. Rather a state of good being in the spiritual realm. Is this how you see it?

I'm really testing the definitions here, because I don't want to spread a spiritual insight of some other, without deeply understanding it for myself.

How I see it is Love is Unity/Connection. Falsehood isn’t disconnected from Truth. I think the real question we need to ask is not what love is, but what falsehood is. Even a Trump support, no matter how deluded they are, they are still acting out of love.

[James123]

56 minutes ago, Evelyna said:

@James123 I  don’t care about your assumptions😊 this was funny , thanks for making me laugh. 

You are most welcome 🤗 🤗 🤗 

[Vynce]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

That's your conditioning and excuse. 

You are in the spiritual world. You just take so seriously therefore it seems to be real and suffering world for you.

Hey James, there was a time when I would have said pretty much the same.

But listen to this, and tell me the same again.

End of last year I got rolled over by a construction truck. I had almost 30 general anaesthetic surgeries, stayed in hospital beds for 6 months, and suffer from life long neuropathic pain and physical disfunction. Over the months of consecutive morphine/fentanyl use in hospital I developed dependency and addiction to said substances, which I only now (14 months later) slowly achieve to taper off.

Depression and suicidal fantasies developed alongside as well. Full on suicide attempts included.

Thats why I question this Truth = Love paradigm a lot. I'm not taking any word for granted solely, because Leo or some other said so. They say a lot of good and deep stuff, but I need to know for myself.

And you really just say the same, but without any deep description or thought process in your statements. 

So please be welcome to lay out how you just stay out of suffering. Or how deeply you investigated these spiritual truth, if you have, that is.

Edited November 12 by Vynce

[James123]

1 hour ago, Vynce said:

Hey James, there was a time when I would have said pretty much the same.

But listen to this, and tell me the same again.

End of last year I got rolled over by a construction truck. I had almost 30 general anaesthetic surgeries, stayed in hospital beds for 6 months, and suffer from life long neuropathic pain and physical disfunction. Over the months of consecutive morphine/fentanyl use in hospital I developed dependency and addiction to said substances, which I only now (14 months later) slowly achieve to taper off.

Depression and suicidal fantasies developed alongside as well. Full on suicide attempts included.

Thats why I question this Truth = Love paradigm a lot. I'm not taking any word for granted solely, because Leo or some other said so. They say a lot of good and deep stuff, but I need to know for myself.

And you really just say the same, but without any deep description or thought process in your statements. 

So please be welcome to lay out how you just stay out of suffering. Or how deeply you investigated these spiritual truth, if you have, that is.

İ am very sorry what you went through brother. I hope you are doing well right now and recover as soon as possible.

İ was one of the top model in NY. After work, i had sudden heart pain in my heart. Doctors told me that my aort walve is ripped and i have to go to open heart surgery asap. They gave me 30 percent change to survive. Now i have a mechanical walve, use cumodin, and have pacemaker (i had to stop working out, my job, my entire career). Year later, my dad passed away at 54. Next month i had a grandma's seizure. Now i am on keppra too. These happened between 2015-2017. That's how my spiritual journey started. 

İ was suicidal, depressed, have no job and no money etc... As you. Than i started to question why i am in this world and what is the purpose of life. 

İ was watching Leo's videos and about to suicede at that time. When i see his video about shrooms, i started to consume dry shrooms and have pychedelic trips. However, my suicidal depression wasn't gone.

One day, i was about to suicede and at that time watched the video heroic dose of shrooms which is 5 gr (if you take more of them, you can die). Than i decided that, either i will suicide or take 10 gr dried shrooms, because, i was going to suicide anyway, these 2 actions will kill me. But, I have last chance to life with consuming the shrooms (but I took the risk to die, because my another option was suicide).

After my trip i died anyway. However, I came back almost with different DNA, as different person, old James was gone. I do not recommend to anyone to use such heroic doses. 

So, my story is pretty much as yours.

Years later (2022), meditation, contemplation, pychedelic trips, and retreats, I have recognize that the one who experience these stuff is just an so called illusion or fragment / gift of Divine's imagination. 

So, you are on right track, keep going. You are lucky that you get bunch of suffering. In spirituality, suffering is gift of God. 

You can PM me if you have any help or for anything.

[Vynce]

15 minutes ago, James123 said:

İ am very sorry what you went through brother. I hope you are doing well right now and recover as soon as possible.

İ was one of the top model in NY. After work, i had sudden heart pain in my heart. Doctors told me that my aort walve is ripped and i have to go to open heart surgery asap. They gave me 30 percent change to survive. Now i have a mechanical walve, use cumodin, and have pacemaker (i had to stop working out, my job, my entire career). Year later, my dad passed away at 54. Next month i had a grandma's seizure. Now i am on keppra too. These happened between 2015-2017. That's how my spiritual journey started. 

İ was suicidal, depressed, have no job and no money etc... As you. Than i started to question why i am in this world and what is the purpose of life. 

İ was watching Leo's videos and about to suicede at that time. When i see his video about shrooms, i started to consume dry shrooms and have pychedelic trips. However, my suicidal depression wasn't gone.

One day, i was about to suicede and at that time watched the video heroic dose of shrooms which is 5 gr (if you take more of them, you can die). Than i decided that, either i will suicide or take 10 gr dried shrooms, because, i was going to suicide anyway, these 2 actions will kill me. But, I have last chance to life with consuming the shrooms (but I took the risk to die, because my another option was suicide).

After my trip i died anyway. However, I came back almost with different DNA, as different person, old James was gone. I do not recommend to anyone to use such heroic doses. 

So, my story is pretty much as yours.

Years later (2022), meditation, contemplation, pychedelic trips, and retreats, I have recognize that the one who experience these stuff is just an so called illusion or fragment / gift of Divine's imagination. 

So, you are on right track, keep going. You are lucky that you get bunch of suffering. In spirituality, suffering is gift of God. 

You can PM me if you have any help or for anything.

Wow, glad to hear you came back from the deep, end and made it back. Thank you for sharing.

I'm thinking about doing a 5-meo-DMT ceremony again. And ask God its possible to get my leg motorics back to work. But I have to wean off of the medications first.

By the way, I also think that suffering can be a gift from God, but then I ask myself what is won with this gift, if it leads to suicide. I want to ask that as well.

Edited November 12 by Vynce

[Schizophonia]

Contemplate how people love their situation. 

Because of ego.