Taking action for a more evolved world - megathread

[Da77en]

9 minutes ago, James123 said:

Definitely not. Totally surrendering is no self to decide or choose.

Preferences come from the self. Either you listen the mind or not.

Consciousness is self. You still exist and can move towards something that resonates or move away from something that doesn't resonate. You are underestimating the fundamental role choice has. Even when you aren't operating from identification with form, there is still choice.

The mind is not some entity that you can listen to or not. The physical personality and mind was never alive or something like that, it's always just been consciousness.

Some people are using the idea of no-self to dissociate from consciousness itself.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Da77en

[James123]

1 minute ago, Da77en said:

Consciousness is self. You still exist and can move towards something that resonates or move away from something that doesn't resonate. You are underestimating the fundamental role choice has. Even when you aren't operating from identification with form, there is still choice.

The point is when there is no identification, there is no you. 

[Da77en]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

The point is when there is no identification, there is no you. 

There is still you, you are consciousness. It's just that you have recognized that you can't pinpoint yourself to any particular form. No-self doesn't mean no-consciousness.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Da77en

[James123]

Just now, Da77en said:

There is still you, you are consciousness. It's just that you have recognized that you can't pinpoint yourself to any particular form.

Have you ever experience no self or being nothing? 

[Da77en]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

Have you ever experience no self or being nothing? 

I experience it 24/7. But it's not just the idea that you are no form or nothing, you are also all form. That's the entire package of consciousness.

No-self doesn't mean no-consciousness. All of the other mechanisms of consciousness still exist, you have just realized the illusion of the limited self.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Da77en

[James123]

Just now, Da77en said:

I experience it 24/7.

You can not experience, "you" must be dropped. 

I appreciate for the conversation. Nice topic btw.

[Da77en]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

You can not experience, "you" must be dropped. 

I appreciate for the conversation. Nice topic btw.

Experience is self aware, you can experience. There still is "you" it's just recontextualized as "you" being consciousness as opposed to being any particular form, the body, mind, personality, etc.

You are experience because experience is the same thing as just saying consciousness.

Thanks for the conversation I appreciate it as well.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Da77en

[James123]

2 minutes ago, Da77en said:

Experience is self aware

I am just curious, how can you be sure in such idea? 

[Da77en]

5 minutes ago, James123 said:

I am just curious, how can you be sure in such idea? 

If experience wasn't aware of itself there would be no experience. In order for there to be an experience it needs to be self-aware. Experience is almost synonymous with self awareness, in fact it actually is synonymous with self awareness.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Da77en

[James123]

1 minute ago, Da77en said:

If experience wasn't aware of itself there would be no experience. In order for there to be an experience it needs to be self-aware. Consciousness is self aware, if it wasn't there could be no Consciousness.

What about if these conversations are just completely illusion, not even, so called illusion and now is before so called birth (Nothing has never happened/just attachment with so called thoughts/not even)?

[Da77en]

16 minutes ago, James123 said:

What about if these conversations are just completely illusion, not even, so called illusion and now is before so called birth (Nothing has never happened/just attachment with so called thoughts/not even)?

Consciousness itself is definitely not an illusion, it is real and is the only thing that exists. The illusory aspect of consciousness is time, space, and the idea that anything can exist "outside" of consciousness. Nothing exists outside of consciousness, the "outside" reality is all generated within your consciousness.

Only the experience of the conversation is real.

Technically now is "before birth" because there is only now.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Da77en

[James123]

5 minutes ago, Da77en said:

Consciousness itself is definitely not an illusion, it is real and is the only thing that exists. The illusory aspect of consciousness is time, space, and the idea that anything can exist "outside" of consciousness. Nothing exists outside of consciousness, the "outside" reality is all generated within your consciousness.

Only the experience of the conversation is real.

I am sorry but, These are all thoughts, concepts and ideas.

These answers brings more and more questions and people get confuse. There is no one to be conscious of. Consciousness, me, you, experienced , experiencer are all illusion.

You can not prove anything what you said, because it is impossible to prove something that does not exist.

[Da77en]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

I am sorry but, These are all thoughts, concepts and ideas.

These answers brings more and more questions and people get confuse. There is no one to be conscious of. Consciousness, me, you, experienced , experiencer are all illusion.

You can not prove anything what you said, because it is impossible to prove something that does not exist.

Any conversation we have is just thoughts, concepts, and ideas until it's a direct knowing.

You think consciousness itself is an illusion? Just look at your experience, that's how you prove that it isn't. You definitely can't prove consciousness to anyone/anything but yourself. Anyone or anything you talk to is just consciousness. You can't prove that anyone else is conscious but you can prove that you are. Consciousness proves itself.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Da77en

[James123]

5 minutes ago, Da77en said:

Any conversation we have is just thoughts, concepts, and ideas until it's a direct knowing.

You think consciousness itself is an illusion? Just look at your experience, that's how you prove it that it isn't. You definitely can't prove consciousness to anyone/anything but yourself. Anyone or anything you talk to is just consciousness. You can't prove that anyone else is conscious but you can prove that you are.

Consciousness=Knowing=Proving=Experiencer=Experience=Concepts=Thoughts=Ideas=illusion.

Not Knowing=The Truth. 

Edited November 12, 2024 by James123

[Da77en]

3 minutes ago, James123 said:

Consciousness=Knowing=Proving=Experiencer=Experience=Concepts=Thoughts=Ideas=illusion.

Not Knowing=Truth. 

Please explain. Are you saying that consciousness not existing is the truth? Consciousness and truth are the same thing. Only one thing exists and it's consciousness.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Da77en

[James123]

3 minutes ago, Da77en said:

Please explain.

Easy. I can not proof anything because anything I say is illusion, because the knower is the ego itself, which is an another illusion, therefore can not be explain. Explaining is an another illusion therefore can not be true or The Truth. 

When You genuinely not Know as before so called birth or deep sleep, that's what The Truth is, Simply Being.

 

That's why Ramana Maharshi says that you are closest to who you are in your deep sleep. 

[Da77en]

Consciousness is the same as knowing.

Being is the same thing as consciousness.

Illusion means you are misperceiving the nature of something, any kind of illusion means you are misperceiving a certain aspect of consciousness, but consciousness itself is not an illusion. In order to misperceive something, you must first be conscious.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Da77en

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, Da77en said:

Please explain. Are you saying that consciousness not existing is the truth? Consciousness and truth are the same thing. Only one thing exists and it's consciousness.

He's basically saying that all of these words aren't IT.  Truth is ineffable.

However to say there is no one to know it isn't quite true.

The reality it is knowable via Being it or becoming it.

Don't worry this was an ongoing argument with @James123 and he was banned and reinstated after many years.  

The point is there isn't a self to know Truth but there is a Self - which is Nothing.  That can become it.  

Edited November 12, 2024 by Inliytened1

[James123]

1 minute ago, Da77en said:

Consciousness is the same as knowing.

Being is the same thing as consciousness.

Illusion is a means you are misperceiving the nature of something, any kind of illusion means you are misperceiving a certain aspect of consciousness, but consciousness itself is not an illusion. In order to misperceive something, you first must be conscious.

You misperceive while imagining that you are perceiving. 

Why do you think you never experience anything before your birth or in deep sleep?

[James123]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

He's basically saying that all of these words aren't IT.  Truth is ineffable.

But the reality it is knowable via Being it or becoming it.

Don't worry this was an ongoing argument with @James123 and he was banned and reinstated after many years.  

The point is there isn't a self to know Truth.

Yeah. Well said.