What's the difference between knowing and being directly conscious?

[Egosum]

If God cannot be known (because being is prior to knowing), how can you become directly conscious of it? Isn't being directly conscious of God also a form of knowing? Aren't they really the same thing?

[James123]

3 minutes ago, Egosum said:

If God cannot be known (because being is prior to knowing), how can you become directly conscious of it? Isn't being directly conscious of God also a form of knowing? Aren't they really the same thing?

Silence and genuinely not knowing is God. As before birth, now or after death. All identical.

Edited November 11, 2024 by James123

[PurpleTree]

It‘s seemingly more an unknowing.

Knowing/knowledge is of the separate self. Subject object.

At least that’s what i heard from my non dual cult leaders.

[James123]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

At least that’s what i heard from my non dual cult leaders.

LoL. 😂 😂 

[Daniel123]

The mind's way of knowing is mostly using abstractions, concepts, words, pictures, logic and such. Direct consciousness is doing away with these intermediaries by becoming it instead of knowing it as a separate object. It is hard to put into words, because words are still in the mind's territory.

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Daniel123 said:

The mind's way of knowing is mostly using abstractions, concepts, words, pictures, logic and such. Direct consciousness is doing away with these intermediaries by becoming it instead of knowing it as a separate object. It is hard to put into words, because words are still in the mind's territory.

It’s seemingly more like a resonance?

[Breakingthewall]

Being directly concious is knowing. There are two ways to knowing, one relative, another absolute. The relative is for example knowing that if I stab anyone he's going to die. The absolute is that you are. It's not so simpler than knowing that you are a human, that's relative. Absolute knowing is omniscience and only can happen if you are totally open. I could have absolute knowing 10 minutes ago and now not anymore, then I build relative knowledge over that remember and it's just relative. The absolute I am implies everything, it's total omniscience, but has a little problem: you can't remember it, it's actual, now, and it's mystical extasy, absolute openness. Then, anything else is relative perspective, not false, relative. 

[Daniel123]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

It’s seemingly more like a resonance?

I think that is a good way to put it. You are resonating not with, but as being. And as soon as the mind is coming in to try and grasp it, even the tiniest bit of separation created by the mind will separate it by infinity, because it is in a whole other realm of experiencing.

 

@Breakingthewall Beautifully put. Remembering requires time and direct experience is eternal, that is, outside of time.

[James123]

4 minutes ago, Daniel123 said:

Beautifully put. Remembering requires time and direct experience is eternal, that is, outside of time.

Where are you?

[Ishanga]

You have 5 sheaths, the last one is called Bliss Body, that is when Your Intouch with it, God/Absolute/Soul/Atman, they call it Bliss Body because there are no words to describe it, as soon as You describe it you limit it, conceptualize it and make it what it is not but we can be intouch with it, that is Enlightenment and with that comes Bliss,  Sat Chi Ananda Truth/Consciousness/Bliss...

Edited November 11, 2024 by Ishanga

[Hojo]

You know it when you come back from seeing it. When you see it its all you can see when you come back to regular mind you can look back on the experience and can decipher what just happened to you. When you are experiencing God you are not there your aura field or feeling of you disintegrates.

If you saw God and then didn't come back you wouldn't be able to say I experienced God. So you can become directly  conscious and be experiencing, but only know when you come back down and think what the fuck was that?!

Like if a 2d flat laner suddenly got launched into 3d and is experiencing 3d going wtf is going on? then floating down to 2d it can only know it was in 3d when it comes back to 2d. While in 3d its experiencing 3d not know what is happening, when it lands it can contemplate on what happened and know.

If it didn't land back into 2d and it landed in 4d it would be like it forgot everything about 2d and is being birthed into 4d and cant know.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Hojo

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, Ishanga said:

You have 5 sheaths, the last one is called Bliss Body, that is when Your Intouch with it, God/Absolute/Soul/Atman, they call it Bliss Body because there are no words to describe it, as soon as You describe it you limit it, conceptualize it and make it what it is not but we can be intouch with it, that is Enlightenment and with that comes Bliss,  Sat Chi Ananda Truth/Consciousness/Bliss...

How do you know that?

[Sugarcoat]

Meditate and find out. That’s what I will do

[Schizophonia]

Scope of visualization. 

[Ishanga]

11 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

How do you know that?

Its a teaching of course, do I have actual experience of it, No, but we are all sharing theory here, like I said, this is not Spirituality or anything of the sort, we are talking theorizing around it, any response from anyone is basically that, their truth when expressed is just a story or theory for me and you..But via the story we can become inspired to know ourselves.. Admitting I do not Know is critical in the beginning, as via admitting not Knowing, your Natural Intelligence opens up and starts to seek to know.  So Seeking is needed in the beginning, if no seeking happens, then no transformation can begin, unless Your karmic substance is that You are basically already there via previous realizations, like Ramana Marashi, he was already there, didn't need to do much Sadhana or anything, most of us are not like this... 

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Ishanga said:

You have 5 sheaths, the last one is called Bliss Body, that is when Your Intouch with it, God/Absolute/Soul/Atman, they call it Bliss Body because there are no words to describe it, as soon as You describe it you limit it, conceptualize it and make it what it is not but we can be intouch with it, that is Enlightenment and with that comes Bliss,  Sat Chi Ananda Truth/Consciousness/Bliss...

For me enlightenment is when the form disappears and what there is is a total openness to being. Being is absolute, it only flows in one direction, the direction of existing, and it is total. It's like an absolute brilliance that totally bursts forth. What becomes obvious is that what veils our perception of ourselves is what is perceived as negative, but from an absolute perspective, the negative is also positive because it exists. There is only one category: existence. then your being opens completely and what you are outside of time manifests, since it is the same as you, me, a rat or a stone. There is only existence, and it is total, and you are that. That's it, game over. I think you could call it totally bliss.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

For me enlightenment is when the form disappears and what there is is a total openness to being. Being is absolute, it only flows in one direction, the direction of existing, and it is total. It's like an absolute brilliance that totally bursts forth. What becomes obvious is that what veils your perception of yourself is what is perceived as negative, but from an absolute perspective, the negative is also positive because it exists. There is only one category: existence. then your being opens completely and what you are outside of time manifests, since it is the same as you, me, a rat or a stone. There is only existence, and it is total, and you are that. That's it, game over. I think you could call it totally bliss.

Yes agreed..the question is why all this form and below Absolute, its real on a relative level, so why is it here and happen and why don't we realize it from day one and have to strive and seek and do all this stuff to know what You wrote above?

Maya is Illusion, Illusion does not mean something does not exist, it means it does not exist as You experience it, so when we normal use our 5 senses, it brings us a perception just intense good enough for our survival, if we were to perceive everything absolutely, we would not care about survival, so words like Life is Imaginary or a Dream are not correct usage, Maya as described above is correct. So we want to be able to Perceive Life as it really is, not on the survival level, but if we do on a everyday situation, then forget about Job, family, social contracts and that sort of thing, it will drop off for sure...

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Maya is Illusion, Illusion does not mean something does not exist, it means it does not exist as You experience it, so when we normal use our 5 senses, it brings us a perception just intense good enough for our survival, if we were to perceive everything absolutely, we would not care about survival, so words like Life is Imaginary or a Dream are not correct usage, Maya as described above is correct. So we want to be able to Perceive Life as it really is, not on the survival level, but if we do on a everyday situation, then forget about Job, family, social contracts and that sort of thing, it will drop off for sure...

Agree, that about the dream, illusion, is misleading and a lie. You could call it maya, relative perspective or anything, but it is, and as it is it's real.  Saying that you don't exist makes no sense and it's psychotic, because who says that is that you that supposedly doesn't exist 

[PurpleTree]

15 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

 unless Your karmic substance is that You are basically already there via previous realizations, like Ramana Marashi, he was already there 

And how do you know that?

 

 

Gosh it’s just stories up on stories.

 

 

 

🦭

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

And how do you know that?

 

 

Gosh it’s just stories up on stories.

 

 

 

🦭

Well the thing is, yes its all stories for Us hearing them, but at least it provides a framework for You to Realize it faster than ppl before us..

Its no different from how we lived 500 yrs ago to how we live today, we learn things along the way, so that things happen faster and more efficently and effectively, that is all.. One can become Enlightened in 100 lifetimes, or 1 lifetime, one can use a Guru to do this fasters, or not use a Guru and do it alone and get there via a slower process.  

The point is also not to believe in it or disbelieve in these stories or theories, but investigate it too see for Yourself if it is true, Guru's are not the same as an Enlightened Being, Guru's know the mechanics of Life, Enlightened Ppl most do not from what I understand of it...