Is Abortion Murder?

[Spiritual Warfare]

I’m from Sweden, where abortion is legal nationwide and support is readily available for those who need it. I’d say the general consensus here is that abortion is considered acceptable. According to a recent Ipsos survey, 87% of Swedes believe abortion should be legal, with 61% saying it should always be legal and another 26% supporting legality in most cases.

Personally, I am fully pro-choice. In Sweden, abortion is allowed up to the 18th week of pregnancy, and I have no problem with that.

I’ve never found any pro-life arguments particularly convincing. Most that I’ve come across are based on religious beliefs or personal feelings, and my response is always simple, then don’t have an abortion. Keeping abortion legal doesn’t force anyone to do anything, it simply lets people decide what’s right for them. My main issue with the pro-life stance is that it takes away a choice for people who don’t share the same beliefs, while keeping abortion legal allows everyone the freedom to choose.

I think this could be an interesting discussion, especially given how much attention the issue is receiving in the United States right now. I’d be genuinely interested to hear from someone who believes that banning abortion is the right choice.

[BlackPhil]

Well why wouldnt it be? The fetus is a living, unique individual (with it's own unique DNA) whether it's inside the womb or outside. Aborting it means killing that specific human and preventing that unique life from happening. It's not like every fetus is the same.

Promoting abortion just because you want to sleep around is very selfish and immoral. You're literally trading someones life for your own pleasure.

When it comes to rape, incest etc. it's another question.

Edit: Also never really understood the "my body, my choice" argument I hear from pro-abortion women. It's not your own body you're aborting, it's the baby's body...

Edited Thursday at 10:03 PM by BlackPhil

[Spiritual Warfare]

8 minutes ago, BlackPhil said:

Edit: Also never really understood the "my body, my choice" argument I hear from pro-abortion women. It's not your own body you're aborting, it's the baby's body...

The baby has its own body within the mother’s body, so you can’t completely separate the two.

[martin_malin]

Excerpt from CWG on the topic :

Neil : Why won't You just say that terminating a pregnancy is murder!

God : You cannot kill anyone or anything.

Neil : No. But you can end its "individuation"! And in our language, that's killing.

God : You cannot stop the process wherein which a part of Me individually expresses in a certain way without the part of Me that is expressing in that way agreeing.

Neil : What? What are You saying?

God : I am saying that nothing happens against the will of God. I have said in this dialogue, your will is My will. That is because there is only One of Us.

[BlackPhil]

1 minute ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

The baby has its own body within the mother’s body, so you can’t completely separate the two.

Yes, because of the mothers own decisions and actions (as long as the intercourse was done willingly which is what Im talking about here).

It's still the baby's body and life that are sacrificed, not the womans. And it wasnt the baby who decided to place itself in her womb.

Also, since when are we even allowed to do whatever we want with our own bodies? Alot of drugs are illegal to put in your own body for instance.

[Spiritual Warfare]

3 minutes ago, BlackPhil said:

Yes, because of the mothers own decisions and actions (as long as the intercourse was done willingly which is what Im talking about here).

It's still the baby's body and life that are sacrificed, not the womans. And it wasnt the baby who decided to place itself in her womb.

Also, since when are we even allowed to do whatever we want with our own bodies? Alot of drugs are illegal to put in your own body for instance.

I understand your point, but it’s important to remember that a woman’s body and autonomy must be respected. While the fetus is unique, it’s completely dependent on the woman’s body for survival during pregnancy. The decision to continue or terminate a pregnancy should be hers, as it affects her health, future, and well-being.

The “my body, my choice” argument isn’t about doing whatever one wants, but about having control over one’s own body. Abortion doesn’t harm anyone else directly, unlike actions that impact public safety, like drug use. Ultimately, it’s about respecting the woman’s right to make decisions that affect her own life and body.

[Spiritual Warfare]

8 minutes ago, martin_malin said:

Excerpt from CWG on the topic :

Neil : Why won't You just say that terminating a pregnancy is murder!

God : You cannot kill anyone or anything.

Neil : No. But you can end its "individuation"! And in our language, that's killing.

God : You cannot stop the process wherein which a part of Me individually expresses in a certain way without the part of Me that is expressing in that way agreeing.

Neil : What? What are You saying?

God : I am saying that nothing happens against the will of God. I have said in this dialogue, your will is My will. That is because there is only One of Us.

 

[BlackPhil]

2 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

Abortion doesn’t harm anyone else directly.

It literally does tho. It harms and kills the baby.

[Spiritual Warfare]

Just now, BlackPhil said:

It literally does tho. It harms and kills the baby.

The fetus does not feel intense pain the way a woman does. A woman has the right to make the decision because it is her body that endures the physical and emotional challenges of pregnancy.

[Hojo]

@Spiritual Warfare If they want control over their own body then have them do it themselves. A doctor is doing it. Why isn't it legal to pay a doctor to kill you? Its murder but that's okay to God, but you are killing something. The person doesn't exist until later in life but the body and potential is taken.

Someone posted an image on the forum of a peanut and the seed of the peanut being the exact same thing.

Edited Friday at 12:43 AM by Hojo

[MediumKahuna]

Is washing your hands to kill bacteria or getting rid of a virus murder?

[LittoDitto]

By definition, abortion is murder only if abortion is illegal.

Edited Friday at 12:22 AM by LittoDitto

[Spiritual Warfare]

32 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Spiritual Warfare If they want control over their own body then have them do it themselves. A doctor is doing it. Why isn't it legal to pay a doctor to kill you? Its murder but that's okay to God, but you are killing something. The person doesn't exist until later in life but the body and potential is taken.

People who support abortion care about respecting the individual’s choice and autonomy, rather than focusing solely on the potential for life. First and foremost, we must respect the woman’s decision because it is she who endures the physical and emotional experience. Few women want to go through such a painful experience, even if some consider pregnancy a gift from God, for those who choose to believe that.

[Hojo]

@Spiritual Warfare Its a problem with society not people. If everyone had perfect care and 0 worries who would say no. I'm not talking about rape victims I'm talking about people in general. We have a system to improve our lives but the arguments fall too, one side wanting abortion and one side not wanting to better the lives of the people as a whole.

I'm not sure the fear of the pain of birth is what is stopping them. Maybe it is I could be wrong, but I think its more of a money thing.

We are made to want to clone ourselves.

Edited Friday at 12:49 AM by Hojo

[Spiritual Warfare]

32 minutes ago, MediumKahuna said:

Is washing your hands to kill bacteria or getting rid of a virus murder?

Killing bacteria is not considered murder because bacteria are not sentient beings. They don’t have awareness or the ability to feel pain. Similarly, a group of cells in early pregnancy is not a person with consciousness or the capacity to experience life and therefore terminating a pregnancy at this stage is not the same as taking a life. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

43 minutes ago, LittoDitto said:

By definition, abortion is murder only if abortion is illegal.

Abortion is not murder by definition because a fetus is not legally considered a person in many places. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

22 minutes ago, Sabth said:

Well, the consequences will be yours only. 

It’s not accurate to say that it’s just a single issue or that it ends with consequences. The situation is far more complex.

[Hojo]

@Spiritual Warfare The argument is that fetus is a made up term for the seed of a human. Like taking a snapshot in time and deciding when and when not the peanut is not its own seed.

Edited Friday at 01:18 AM by Hojo

[Spiritual Warfare]

32 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Spiritual Warfare Its a problem with society not people. If everyone had perfect care and 0 worries who would say no. I'm not talking about rape victims I'm talking about people in general. We have a system to improve our lives but the arguments fall too, one side wanting abortion and one side not wanting to better the lives of the people as a whole.

I'm not sure the fear of the pain of birth is what is stopping them. Maybe it is I could be wrong, but I think its more of a money thing.

We are made to want to clone ourselves.

I don’t believe that women choose to have an abortion simply because giving birth is painful. There are many reasons behind the decision, but I think it often comes down to the fact that some young women are tempted by the thrill of sex and engage in it frequently without fully considering the consequences. People tend to act on impulse, driven by immediate desires, even when they know it could lead to problems later. They might not be able to see the long-term impact and often feel unsure about their ability to care for a child, which is why abortion becomes the choice for many.

 

This version aims to sound more fluid and address your point clearly. Let me know if you’d like further adjustments!

[LordFall]

3 hours ago, BlackPhil said:

Well why wouldnt it be? The fetus is a living, unique individual (with it's own unique DNA) whether it's inside the womb or outside. Aborting it means killing that specific human and preventing that unique life from happening. It's not like every fetus is the same.

Promoting abortion just because you want to sleep around is very selfish and immoral. You're literally trading someones life for your own pleasure.

When it comes to rape, incest etc. it's another question.

Edit: Also never really understood the "my body, my choice" argument I hear from pro-abortion women. It's not your own body you're aborting, it's the baby's body...

A fetus is not a baby. It is a clump of cells without consciousness similar to Algae or moisture. If you talk about that it's eventually gonna turn into a human that's a strange argument, are we killing a potential baby everytime we pullout then?