Democrats are losing young men?

[Consept]

4 hours ago, What Am I said:

Yeah, but I think the problem with Kamala and podcasts is that she probably lacks the ability to comfortably put on a show and be a good guest. She very easily could have gone on Rogan, and she was expressly invited. I'm guessing her campaign thought better of it due to the risks of a poor showing. Either way, it may be a requirement going forward that politicians are simply required to be more personable.

Yeah you might be right, I think she did Howard stern which went OK but generally it seems like her team either didn't think she'd be good on those shows or underestimated their importance. Obama prob would've done well on them, but it is a new thing and presidents previously have never had to be personable in this way. The dems are way behind on this though. 

4 hours ago, What Am I said:

For Destiny, when I see him giving advice in weight training, finance, relationships, etc., I do think he sees himself as a bit of a role model. But you guys are probably correct that he won't reach the levels of someone like Joe Rogan. Someone who's currently unknown may need to rise up and fill that gap on the left.

His advice isn't really specialised but it's not bad advice, it's just basic. I think young men need the whole masculine package to actually get motivated. There could be guys that move into that space, the left definitely needs it, as the right have painted them, quite successfully as pussys. Imo if you're following someone for your masculinity you're probably not that masculine, it's an interesting paradox 

 

[Etherial Cat]

 

[What Am I]

16 minutes ago, Consept said:

Yeah you might be right, I think she did Howard stern which went OK but generally it seems like her team either didn't think she'd be good on those shows or underestimated their importance. Obama prob would've done well on them, but it is a new thing and presidents previously have never had to be personable in this way. The dems are way behind on this though.

I'm seeing more and more people recognizing the deficiency, so I bet it'll be addressed, one way or the other.

16 minutes ago, Consept said:

His advice isn't really specialised but it's not bad advice, it's just basic. I think young men need the whole masculine package to actually get motivated. There could be guys that move into that space, the left definitely needs it, as the right have painted them, quite successfully as pussys. Imo if you're following someone for your masculinity you're probably not that masculine, it's an interesting paradox

lol yeah, it's interesting how that works out, where someone explicitly practicing masculinity can give the opposite vibes to a discerning individual. Rogan is way better than Tate in that respect, because Rogan just lives his life.

Edited November 8 by What Am I

[Basman]

The democrats losing this election to me is simply SD Stage Green running its course and failing to actualize on its idealism politically, fundamentally due to not understanding human nature and antagonizing the lower stages.

There seems to be a general consensus that democrats need to self-evaluate. Hopefully it'll lead to more Yellow. That is a silver lining.

[whh2222]

On 11/7/2024 at 3:19 PM, Lyubov said:

Looooool this is gonna sound mean but like probably 90% of the women commenting on this thread most men would not rank as attractive or are the women the incels feel they are missing out on. Physically attractive women generally speaking don’t give a shit about feminism or politics. I saw videos on my feed made by the women making these posts and they can keep those doors closed  men in the USA ain’t missing out on nothing with them. 

those bitches can get bent 

[Etherial Cat]

7 minutes ago, whh2222 said:

those bitches can get bent 

Watch out for your language.

[Etherial Cat]

And yes, it's well known that feminists are ugly desperate harpies leftovers.

It's empirically proven by pop feminist you would all known, like Taylor Swift, Emma Watson, Beyoncé and the likes.

This is a 'you can't fire me I'm quitting case'. These women don't miss the loss of men that are only interested in their looks, which is the whole point. Read the room.

[Lyubov]

47 minutes ago, whh2222 said:

those bitches can get bent 

This is childish and my post was as well. I'm bringing out a pretty immature side of myself since this election and I don't like it. These women are free to do as they wish. I literally do not care what they do and I think it's ridiculous what some of them are saying, just as I think the men going their own way movement is a "blame the other side" copout.   

[Joshe]

It's pathetic that young white men now want politicians to give them the same level of representation and attention as disadvantaged groups have received.

Should political parties be catering to the emotional needs and lifestyle preferences of healthy young white men whose biggest hardship is not getting pussy? 

Maybe we need some federally-funded brothels for these men who feel left behind. I'd be willing to pay a .25% brothel tax for them if they'd just shut the fuck up.

What we need is a party who can figure out how to exterminate this neediness so we can get down to real business. And that goes for both sides.

Maybe that's the way forward. What if the Dems came out and said "Look, we've made mistakes but we're changing how we operate. From now on, we're not going to show preferential treatment towards any group because it makes other groups jealous and causes too much conflict. We're sorry and we'll still look out for people but we're not doing identity politics anymore. It will be boring but that's how it should be."

In my dreams. 

[aurum]

3 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

 

Just watched this as well. 

He's definitely right about a lot of young guys not wanting to feel like they're weak, soft or effeminate. The right-wing does give them masculinity, but generally a more toxic version of it.

The left needs more role models young guys feel inspired toward. But also, even just recognizing who you should role model requires a level of maturity that some young guys don't have. So that's not a perfect solution either.

Edited November 9 by aurum

[aurum]

3 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Maybe that's the way forward. What if the Dems came out and said "Look, we've made mistakes but we're changing how we operate. From now on, we're not going to show preferential treatment towards any group because it makes other groups jealous and causes too much conflict. We're sorry and we'll still look out for people but we're not doing identity politics anymore. It will be boring but that's how it should be."

In my dreams. 

That would never work anyway. Certain groups always need more favor than others.

[Joshe]

19 minutes ago, aurum said:

The left needs more role models young guys feel inspired toward. But also, even just recognizing who you should role model requires a level of maturity that some young guys don't have. So that's not a perfect solution either.

The best solution you could hope for without embracing toxic masculinity is to meet them halfway. One such example is Dave Bautista's video attacking Trump.

The problem is, at some point, the big man talk has to stop and when it does, they'll lose interest and go to the side that feeds it 24/7. I don't see how you can win them over when the right fully embraces what they want to express. You'd have to become them to have a chance at winning them over. Dana White was a main speaker at Trump's victory party for God's sake. They're gone. 

15 minutes ago, aurum said:

That would never work anyway. Certain groups always need more favor than others.

Yeah, I know. 

Edited November 9 by Joshe

[whh2222]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

And yes, it's well known that feminists are ugly desperate harpies leftovers.

It's empirically proven by pop feminist you would all known, like Taylor Swift, Emma Watson, Beyoncé and the likes.

This is a 'you can't fire me I'm quitting case'. These women don't miss the loss of men that are only interested in their looks, which is the whole point. Read the room.

Your English doesn't make sense, respectfully. It's like half speak. What about taylor swift etc? Where did that even come from?

 

This shit is just MGTOW, MGTOW's were never empowered, they were just lonely and sad.  

Edited November 9 by whh2222

[What Am I]

24 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Maybe that's the way forward. What if the Dems came out and said "Look, we've made mistakes but we're changing how we operate. From now on, we're not going to show preferential treatment towards any group because it makes other groups jealous and causes too much conflict. We're sorry and we'll still look out for people but we're not doing identity politics anymore. It will be boring but that's how it should be."

If there's no sincerity, I don't think it'd work. It sounds like the Dems would continue to feel great disdain for certain members of those groups, as evidenced below:

25 minutes ago, Joshe said:

It's pathetic that young white men now want politicians to give them the same level of representation and attention as disadvantaged groups have received.

Should political parties be catering to the emotional needs and lifestyle preferences of healthy young white men whose biggest hardship is not getting pussy? 

Maybe we need some federally-funded brothels for these men who feel left behind. I'd be willing to pay a .25% brothel tax for them if they'd just shut the fuck up.

 

[What Am I]

To make sure I wasn't just misinterpreting tone or something, I checked with AI to get an objective opinion.

Q: Can you please summarize this?

A: The text expresses frustration and sarcasm towards young white men who feel underrepresented and want politicians to cater to their needs, despite not facing significant hardships. The author suggests that their concerns are trivial and not worthy of attention, and uses provocative language to make a point.

Q: Does it sound as if the author likes young white men?

A: No, the text does not convey a positive sentiment towards young white men. The author's tone is dismissive, sarcastic, and mocking, indicating a strong negative attitude towards this group.

I'm sorry, I feel like I'm picking on you, but it's just something that stands out to me. For all the talk I'm seeing of winning over young men, I can't imagine it actually happening when there's an undertone of disgust to contend with. That type of thing gets expressed subconsciously, even if you don't make it apparent on the surface. They would definitely pick up on it, and I'm guessing that's what's already been happening.

Edited November 9 by What Am I

[aurum]

36 minutes ago, Joshe said:

The best solution you could hope for without embracing toxic masculinity is to meet them halfway. One such example is Dave Bautista's video attacking Trump.

The problem is, at some point, the big man talk has to stop and when it does, they'll lose interest and go to the side that feeds it 24/7. I don't see how you can win them over when the right fully embraces what they want to express. You'd have to become them to have a chance at winning them over. Dana White was a main speaker at Trump's victory party for God's sake. They're gone. 

That's the rub.

What many of these young guys want is a toxic masculine role model. Because they themselves are somewhat immature, insecure and toxic.

If you offer them a healthier version of masculinity, they will reject it.

[whh2222]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

It's pathetic that young white men now want politicians to give them the same level of representation and attention as disadvantaged groups have received.

Should political parties be catering to the emotional needs and lifestyle preferences of healthy young white men whose biggest hardship is not getting pussy? 

 

Your statement pretty much sums up the whole phenomenon. Your disdain and lack of empathy is why they're going the way they are going 

[Joshe]

3 hours ago, What Am I said:

If there's no sincerity, I don't think it'd work. It sounds like the Dems would continue to feel great disdain for certain members of those groups, as evidenced below:

It's possible to fake like you care about people, as evidenced by Trump. That's the game we're in, which gives you thrills when considering ways the right can manipulate people but triggers your morals when you think of the left doing it. 

2 hours ago, What Am I said:

Q: Can you please summarize this?

A: The text expresses frustration and sarcasm towards young white men who feel underrepresented and want politicians to cater to their needs, despite not facing significant hardships. The author suggests that their concerns are trivial and not worthy of attention, and uses provocative language to make a point.

Replace "young white men" with, "the idea that young white men". You might say that I'm engaging in toxic masculinity rather than frustration. What I'm really expressing is my disdain for toxic ideas, hypocrisy, and weakness, which is the same weakness the right likes to make fun of the left for. Little snowflakes who melt with the slightest bit of emotional discomfort. 

2 hours ago, What Am I said:

Q: Does it sound as if the author likes young white men?

A: No, the text does not convey a positive sentiment towards young white men. The author's tone is dismissive, sarcastic, and mocking, indicating a strong negative attitude towards this group.

That AI needs an epistemic upgrade. A better answer would have been something like:

Based on such scant data, we can't be sure, but if we had to make a judgement based only on this, it's a reasonable assumption, although not definitive. 

If you want to know the truth, you could have just asked me 😆

I'm a middle-class, middle-aged, straight, single white male. I don't watch MSNBC. I've never been to a political protest or defended any minority group in my life. I've only ever had sex with women.

My view of young white men is about the same as my view of young black men. Which is they're both just humans.

I'm mocking the ideas being discussed, not the people holding the ideas. It seems this is rare.

I'm not the type to attack people but ideas are fair game in my book. I recognize the plight of the human condition and I don't blame people for anything. I don't hate them for their ideas and I don't hate any group. Not even suicide bombers. But I will brutally mock their ideas, and TBH, I don't care to tiptoe around it. If I have a horrible idea, I don't mind if it's attacked. In fact, I wish it would be.

Maybe I'm just oldschool or something, but I don't think young men should hear the message that there's something wrong with them and they've been abandoned by society. Even worse, to blame it on a fucking political party is STUPID! IF you hold that idea, I'm calling the idea stupid. Not you! 

This idea is not only fallacious, it's toxic. It's not good for anyone except the people who don't give two shits about them, profiting off it financially and politically. The hypocrisy of this idea is off the charts. 

And here's AI's summary of this message. It almost got it right.

Edited November 9 by Joshe

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, aurum said:

The right-wing does give them masculinity, but generally a more toxic version of it.

Are you sure about that?

On average, these right wing guys don't come across as any more Masculine than the next guy. The only one I can think of that's Masculine is Joe Rogan... and he's not even the most ideologically right wing guy.

Most right wing male figures are just ideologically fetishizing their views on Masculinity. But that doesn't actually translate to them coming across as more Masculine. Like, I can't even think of a right wing guy other than Joe Rogan... or maybe Steven Crowder that come across as more Masculine than the average guy.

It's just like a if there's a woman who ideologically fetishized Femininity... it wouldn't make her more Feminine.

You can see a slight example of this with trad wives that have an ideological attachment to the idea of traditional Femininity. Unless they're influencers that play trad wives on TikTok, most of them are not paragons of Femininity just because they subscribe to that ideology. Some are truly the opposite and use their beliefs in trad Fem ideology to try to gain male validation, which doesn't actually translate to more Feminine allure in these men's eyes. 

Masculinity and Femininity are not things people can add to themselves just by believing an ideology that puts Masculinity or Femininity up on a pedestal. 

Think about Ben Shapiro, Nick Fuentes, Charlie Kirk, Matt Walsh, Andrew Tate, etc. 

Matt Walsh and Andrew Tate are in the 50th percentile of Masculine vibes where they're dead on average... while Ben Shapiro, Nick Fuentes, and Charlie Kirk are slightly less Masculine than the majority of men.

[What Am I]

@Joshe Fair enough, good clarifications. I think I do get where you're coming from, and I empathize with your guys' plight. I'm sure the way forward for all of us together will materialize at some point.

Edited November 9 by What Am I