Democrats are losing young men?

[Etherial Cat]

18 minutes ago, Alex4 said:

Interesting.

 

what good book would you recommend about this topic?

• The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love from bell hooks
• The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir
• Feminism Is for Everybody: Passionate Politics by bell hooks
• Cassandra Speaks by Elizabeth Lesser
• Men Explain Things to Me by Rebecca Solnit
• Healing the Sacred Divide: Making Peace with Ourselves, Each Other, and the World by Jean Benedict Raffa

Other than that, I can also recommend you two great youtube channel that speaks about gender a lot:

• The Diamond Net from @Emerald https://www.youtube.com/@TheDiamondNet (look for the videos on spiral dynamic and the divine feminine, anima/animus integration and everything that has to do with archetypes)
• Contrapints https://www.youtube.com/@ContraPoints (her videos about men, incels and Jordan Peterson might be interesting starting point)

[Etherial Cat]

35 minutes ago, Consept said:

The problem boys and men face is that theyre told from young they have to be 'men', if theyre not men theyll be disrespected, they wont get female attention etc. But also theyre not told how to be men in a healthy way, theres a lot of dads not being around or if they are around not being a positive influence. So when these boys get into the world they extremely easy to manipulate and corrupt, all you have to do is present them with some kind of macho masculinity and acceptance and its a wrap. 

But however the survive this psyche, deep down they truly believe they arent shit, thet dont want to face this and so its easier to scapegoat and blame others. I do think this issue is societies failing, men have been left behind for the most part. 

I am so sorry. I understand this to be true, as I see many men grappling with these experiences. Believe me, many women are empathetic to their struggles.

Our society often fails men, and the trauma runs deep; so deep that many are unable to recognize or acknowledge the issues they face. And that wound is deeply protected by the feelings of shame and unworthiness you describe, which make it VERY difficult to address. For most of them, it's like everything I say or try to point at rebound immediately out of their sphere of awareness.  
 

46 minutes ago, Consept said:

On the flip even if a boy grew up and embraced his feminine side, most likely he would demonise his masculine and supress that which is also not healthy,

Yep, this is a very common belief, but I do not think it is actually true. There could be cases of masculine suppression, but if it is well done, the feminine qualities actually do empower the masculine ones back.

Per exemple .. If you actually want to be an excellent thinker and reason logically (esoteric masculine quality), you can't do it with a lot of repressed emotions (esoteric feminine qualities). The repressed emotions will distort your thinking abilities and distort your perception of reality.

So to actually be well grounded in your healthy masculine, you need to properly integrate your feminine. Your feminine qualities will not go away, regardless of any of the attempts at suppression. They will control you from your unconscious.

[Etherial Cat]

55 minutes ago, Consept said:

men are rarely encouraged to just be themselves, probably the only ones that are, are gay boys if they grow up in an accepting environment. 

Sorry, I forgot to address that part in the other post and I'm struggling to add the quotation.

I agree that men are rarely encouraged just to be themselves and that manifest in gender performance. They'll look at diverse models of masculinities, rarely the good ones and try to emulate the formula.

And I think this really suck as our current society is so abusive and manipulative that they'll look up at a lot of role models of masculinities that have been performing well, and a lot of them have been hustling their way to the top through questionable means. I'm thinking especially of guys like Andrew Tate and the likes.

[Alex4]

23 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

• The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love from bell hooks
• The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir
• Feminism Is for Everybody: Passionate Politics by bell hooks
• Cassandra Speaks by Elizabeth Lesser
• Men Explain Things to Me by Rebecca Solnit
• Healing the Sacred Divide: Making Peace with Ourselves, Each Other, and the World by Jean Benedict Raffa

Other than that, I can also recommend you two great youtube channel that speaks about gender a lot:

• The Diamond Net from @Emerald https://www.youtube.com/@TheDiamondNet (look for the videos on spiral dynamic and the divine feminine, anima/animus integration and everything that has to do with archetypes)
• Contrapints https://www.youtube.com/@ContraPoints (her videos about men, incels and Jordan Peterson might be interesting starting point)

Thank you for the list. I’d been wanting to read about this topic for a while as part of my process of integrating stage green, but I didn’t know where to start. I already know ContraPoints, it was one of the first that opened my eyes but I recognise I haven't watched many of her videos.

One question: The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir, ouldn't it be too long and heavy for someone not familiar with the topic?

[Consept]

17 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

I am so sorry. I understand this to be true, as I see many men grappling with these experiences. Believe me, many women are empathetic to their struggles.

Our society often fails men, and the trauma runs deep; so deep that many are unable to recognize or acknowledge the issues they face. And that wound is deeply protected by the feelings of shame and unworthiness you describe, which make it VERY difficult to address. For most of them, it's like everything I say or try to point at rebound immediately out of their sphere of awareness.  

Yeah not being conscious of it makes it so hard to address, you convince yourself there isn't any issue or you just need to get this, achieve this to be ok. It's tough.

19 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Yep, this is a very common belief, but I do not think it is actually true. There could be cases of masculine suppression, but if it is well done, the feminine qualities actually do empower the masculine ones back.

Per exemple .. If you actually want to be an excellent thinker and reason logically (esoteric masculine quality), you can't do it with a lot of repressed emotions (esoteric feminine qualities). The repressed emotions will distort your thinking abilities and distort your perception of reality.

So to actually be well grounded in your healthy masculine, you need to properly integrate your feminine. Your feminine qualities will not go away, regardless of any of the attempts at suppression. They will control you from your unconscious.

Sorry I don't think I was that clear in what I was saying, I agree with you in that you have to embrace your feminine side as a guy to be completely free, because as you say they aren't going away and also they fully round you as a man. 

What my point was, which you may still disagree with, is that let's say a boy grows up with a single mother, she encourages feminine side etc sometimes it can happen where she may demonise masculine qualities or if the boy is in liberal spaces they may demonise being a man or masculine. So the boy then could repress their masculine side and not properly express it. I have seen this in a lot of guys and weirdly these guys are also very liable to go down the redpill rabbit hole and blame women. 

16 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

And I think this really suck as our current society is so abusive and manipulative that they'll look up at a lot of role models of masculinities that have been performing well, and a lot of them have been hustling their way to the top through questionable means. I'm thinking especially of guys like Andrew Tate and the likes.

Yeah for them Tate represents their idea of what freedom as a man looks like. But when I look at him I actually see someone he's completely trapped in ego and persona, he isn't free at all because without all his so called accomplishments, he's nothing. But he resonates because he gives them an easy way out of all the stuff we've discussed, even if it loving vicariously through him 

[Etherial Cat]

20 minutes ago, Alex4 said:

Thank you for the list. I’d been wanting to read about this topic for a while as part of my process of integrating stage green, but I didn’t know where to start. I already know ContraPoints, it was one of the first that opened my eyes but I recognise I haven't watched many of her videos.

One question: The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir, ouldn't it be too long and heavy for someone not familiar with the topic?

It's true that the book might be difficult for a beginner, and that it is very long.

But I read again chapter 1 for a class I am taking two weeks ago, and I thought it was ok. 

What about using summaries? If you don't have the time, listening to a video like this one could maybe be not so bad. The most important are the general ideas more than reading the whole expression of it.

There is also the option of listening to the audiobook. 

Edited November 7 by Etherial Cat

[Zega]

I saw a post from Hasan today that the top 10 most watched political media that's consumed (I can't remember if it was just on Twitch) and he was the only one that wasn't a conservative. 

[Etherial Cat]

I just rewatched this video and I think Natalie Wynn makes a lot of very interesting points.

Her last conclusion is that the left needs to address masculin angst and provide an appealing solution to the masculine crisis to fix the party's bleeding.

That video was made years before the election and is literally identifying a set of issues that have been key factors in Trump's election.

Edited November 7 by Etherial Cat

[Etherial Cat]

26 minutes ago, Zega said:

I saw a post from Hasan today that the top 10 most watched political media that's consumed (I can't remember if it was just on Twitch) and he was the only one that wasn't a conservative. 

Interesting, thanks a lot for sharing. I am not surprised by these numbers.

[hoodrow trillson]

It definitely tracks since young men are getting zero pussy.

[Etherial Cat]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

Yeah not being conscious of it makes it so hard to address, you convince yourself there isn't any issue or you just need to get this, achieve this to be ok. It's tough.

I can see how men are taught to be resilient and keep sucking it up and move forward contributes further to the issue. No time is taken for healing as not only the problem isn't recognized, but introspecting and feeling pain is seen as unrewarding.
 

1 hour ago, Consept said:

Sorry I don't think I was that clear in what I was saying, I agree with you in that you have to embrace your feminine side as a guy to be completely free, because as you say they aren't going away and also they fully round you as a man. 

What my point was, which you may still disagree with, is that let's say a boy grows up with a single mother, she encourages feminine side etc sometimes it can happen where she may demonise masculine qualities or if the boy is in liberal spaces they may demonise being a man or masculine. So the boy then could repress their masculine side and not properly express it. I have seen this in a lot of guys and weirdly these guys are also very liable to go down the redpill rabbit hole and blame women. 

 

I have seen this at play, so this is true and I agree that this is a problem. Per exemple, I have that friend whose mother has been suffering physical abuse by some guy and who overcompensated by suppressing some healthy masculinity in his upbringing because she was unconsciously afraid he would turn aggressive. As a result, his healthy anger has been suppressed and he had a propension for low boundaries, which he resented for a while.
 

1 hour ago, Consept said:

 

Yeah for them Tate represents their idea of what freedom as a man looks like. But when I look at him I actually see someone he's completely trapped in ego and persona, he isn't free at all because without all his so called accomplishments, he's nothing. But he resonates because he gives them an easy way out of all the stuff we've discussed, even if it loving vicariously through him 

Yeah, I agree. But dominance and boundry crushing is not going to provide them the love they seek deeply within. It's very sad that they are falling for this con.

[Talinn]

12 minutes ago, hoodrow trillson said:

It definitely tracks since young men are getting zero pussy.

If this post is any indication at all it will only get worse for them, the societal changes will be interesting to experience. Even more polarization in American life.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1gli4en/anyone_else_joining_the_4b_movement/

[Etherial Cat]

5 minutes ago, Talinn said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1gli4en/anyone_else_joining_the_4b_movement/

I blocked and cutted off from my inner circle all the male friends I have that are advocating in any shape or form against my rights two weeks ago. Had a great leftist french buddy who was a sexual consent minimiser and always came out to stand up for convincted rapists.

I instead reinforced my network with men that are aware of gender problems and value collective healing.

The others can get the low boundries discounted pick mes that are willing to put up with their dehumanizing nonsense. 
 

[PurpleTree]

29 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

I blocked and cutted off from my inner circle all the male friends I have that are advocating in any shape or form against my rights two weeks ago. Had a great leftist french buddy who was a sexual consent minimiser and always came out to stand up for convincted rapists.

I instead reinforced my network with men that are aware of gender problems and value collective healing.

The others can get the low boundries discounted pick mes that are willing to put up with their dehumanizing nonsense. 
 

What is collective healing?

[kray]

People underestimate how much the internet, especially the manosphere/redpill influenced the outcome of people’s vote this election. If you go deep enough into the manosphere, you enter a pipeline that takes you to the right wing 

[Oppositionless]

Democrats don't have a view of healthy masculinity to replace stage orange toxic masculinity, which they demonize. For democrats to truly "get" men, they're gonna have to transcend green into tier two, and present a vision of integral manhood.

imagine if the left created an agenda that starting at age 16, every man will be taught how to date. How to approach, how to be charismatic, funny, witty,  how to lead a woman, and the ethics related to such. That would be truly something 

Edited November 7 by Oppositionless

[What Am I]

9 minutes ago, kray said:

People underestimate how much the internet, especially the manosphere/redpill influenced the outcome of people’s vote this election. If you go deep enough into the manosphere, you enter a pipeline that takes you to the right wing 

I wonder if it's a "chicken or egg" scenario. Is the right wing historically more likely to draw in those of masculine preference, and perhaps especially those where the masculinity has turned a bit toxic?

[What Am I]

11 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

Democrats don't have a view of healthy masculinity to replace stage orange toxic masculinity, which they demonize. For democrats to truly "get" men, they're gonna have to transcend green into tier two, and present a vision of integral manhood.

Interesting idea. Maybe upwards is the only way forwards, and we'll be in this weird sexual dichotomy split until it happens.

[Joshe]

The right's idea of a man looks a lot like a sadistic teenager's wet dream of dominating others and getting all the pussy. 

[What Am I]

5 minutes ago, Joshe said:

The right's idea of a man looks a lot like a sadistic teenager's wet dream of dominating others and getting all the pussy. 

Well, maybe you can help clarify something that I'm not getting a solid answer for, both in this thread and others. In your education in politics and history, is it the case that the differences in ideologies also seemingly split along male/female traits? It's something I genuinely don't know, but I could swear we're at least seeing some semblance of it in modern times.

It's important to point out that I'm not calling men on the left feminine weaklings. That's obviously not an appropriate hard-and-fast rule, because exceptions are apparent everywhere. But is it way off to assume some kind of correlation here?

Edited November 7 by What Am I