What even is enlightenment?

[Ishanga]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

I just thought to myself today. Isn’t it crazy how something that is supposedly supposed to be the truth, that there is no self, no separation, is so damn hard to “see”? The thing that’s supposed to be so obvious. How could an illusion be so strong 99.9 % of people are under it. It’s crazy

If this crazy was not in place then we would not be here, then Absolute is just Absolute, Potential is never revealed, exposed or expressed or experienced.. If like a phantom zone, nothing happens, nothing has happened, nothing will happen, at least here something is happening, something has happened and something will happen, like Your Birth, do You think that has meaning or no?

The problem here is simply some are placing meaning on what they find meaningful, what I am saying is that all of it is meaningful.. Some say what is going on here, our body/mind is not meaningful, others say it is, all of it is, the body, mind and soul for lack of a better word..Its all Potential, if You see all of it then Your Enlightened..If You see some of it, then not quite there yet...

Edited November 7 by Ishanga

[Breakingthewall]

21 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Why do you say it’s not an illusion?

it’s difficult indeed

That of the illusion only leads to confusion. enlightenment is not realizing that everything is a trick that you, as a god, do to deceive yourself and that kind of madness, it is realizing what you really are.

Relative reality is impermanent, and from an absolute perspective it is only an appearance, since from eternity and infinity there is no real movement, no point a and b, no evolution or purpose, only movement relative to other movement, circular cycles that end where they started. But while I'm here I have to eat and all that. then it can be said that from an absolute perspective the manifested reality is apparent and relative, there is no real movement or evolution in infinity, but from a relative perspective there is. It doesn't matter, what matters is realizing what you are ultimately, not what you are not, because relatively you are relative

Edited November 7 by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That of the illusion only leads to confusion. enlightenment is not realizing that everything is a trick that you, as a god, do to deceive yourself and that kind of madness, it is realizing what you really are.

Relative reality is impermanent, and from an absolute perspective it is only an appearance, since from eternity and infinity there is no real movement, no point a and b, no evolution or purpose, only movement relative to other movement, circular cycles that end where they started. But while I'm here I have to eat and all that. then it can be said that from an absolute perspective the manifest reality is apparent and relative, there is no real movement or evolution in infinity, but from a relative perspective there is. It doesn't matter, what matters is realizing what you are ultimately, not what you are not, because relatively you are relative

It’s almost like you speak your own language 

[Sugarcoat]

9 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

If this crazy was not in place then we would not be here, then Absolute is just Absolute, Potential is never revealed, exposed or expressed or experienced.. If like a phantom zone, nothing happens, nothing has happened, nothing will happen, at least here something is happening, something has happened and something will happen, like Your Birth, do You think that has meaning or no?

The problem here is simply some are placing meaning on what they find meaningful, what I am saying is that all of it is meaningful.. Some say what is going on here, our body/mind is not meaningful, others say it is, all of it is, the body, mind and soul for lack of a better word..Its all Potential, if You see all of it then Your Enlightened..If You see some of it, then not quite there yet...

I don’t really get what you mean by it’s all potential 

[Sugarcoat]

12 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Do you want to exist or not. I guarantee you, if you were truly in the void or whatever it is and how they frame it, if you were truly in that dimension of oneness, no separation, and had everything at your disposal and at anytime just by wishing it and it's so in the blink of an eye for eternity, you'd be wishing for separation and ignorance again. This is what drives you to get up everyday and to face the world of uncertainty. If it were so easy to uncover, it wouldn't be all powerful, all mighty and omniscient. It's who you truly are, only now you're the limited human able to experience yourself and to go through the challenges of what it feels like to be human. Can't be done without the illusion of a separate self. It can be broken, but you really don't want to, or you would have. This is why you're still seemingly alive.

“Do you want to exist or not” was kinda funny for some reason. I’d like to see how no self is. “But you really don’t want to, or you would have” . My desire for enlightenment isn’t super strong so you have a point there

[Ishanga]

7 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I don’t really get what you mean by it’s all potential 

An ameba is a certain Potential, You/Humans are a certain Potential...This Earth is a certain Potential, other Earth like places or non Earth like places are a Potential... One believing in the God of the Bible is a certain Potential, Non Dualism is another.. Depression/Anxiety/Bitterness are certain Potentials, Happiness/Bliss/Ecstasy are others, the key to it all when dealing with Human Experience (we the most Capability in this area) if Your ability to exert Free Will, the Ability to Respond Consciously (You choose how to Experience), if You deny this then You will live by Accident (non Enlightenment), if You embrace it You live by Choice (Enlightenment)...

Edited November 7 by Ishanga

[Sugarcoat]

5 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

An ameba is a certain Potential, You/Humans are a certain Potential...This Earth is a certain Potential, other Earth like places or non Earth like places are a Potential... One believing in the God of the Bible is a certain Potential, Non Dualism is another.. Depression/Anxiety/Bitterness are certain Potentials, Happiness/Bliss/Ecstasy are others, the key to it all when dealing with Human Experience (we the most Capability in this area) if Your ability to exert Free Will, the Ability to Respond Consciously (You choose how to Experience), if You deny this then You will live by Accident, if You embrace it You live by Choice...

Still don’t know what you mean by potential but it’s fine 😂 

Edited November 7 by Sugarcoat

[Ishanga]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

Still don’t know what you mean by potential but it’s fine 😂 

Absolute is Supreme Intelligence, not calculation, survival/cunningness sort of Intelligence, but Grand Intelligence, the thing that makes Gravity, Atoms, millions of chemical reactions per second, Shit grows things, we eat what grows then shit it out, Trillions of things, non things happenings, non happenings, going on in a tiny moment, we cannot comprehend it, that is Supreme Intelligence on a small scale, but its not Expressed in Absolute realm, but Potential is there, so therefore we are an expression of that Potential, living it out daily moment by moment, So Absolute in a sense can Experience itself as a by product I would say..

Out of Oneness, Duality is born, because Duality is not separation but Oneness travelling in a Circle..

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Absolute is Supreme Intelligence, not calculation, survival/cunningness sort of Intelligence, but Grand Intelligence, the thing that makes Gravity, Atoms, millions of chemical reactions per second, Shit grows things, we eat what grows then shit it out, Trillions of things, non things happenings, non happenings, going on in a tiny moment, we cannot comprehend it, that is Supreme Intelligence on a small scale, but its not Expressed in Absolute realm, but Potential is there, so therefore we are an expression of that Potential, living it out daily moment by moment, So Absolute in a sense can Experience itself as a by product I would say..

Out of Oneness, Duality is born, because Duality is not separation but Oneness travelling in a Circle..

You also speak your own language 😂

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

It’s almost like you speak your own language 

 No way, what I said is clear, not a mess. Look, try to understand logically what infinity implies, it's important if you want to see through the relative. 

Imagine something that has no beginning or end or limits. Imagine that a point moves there. If you have no reference, there is no real movement, since the frame where you are moving is unlimited. This means that the point is static from the point of view of infinity. Imagine that there are two points, then one point can move relative to the other. and now imagine that those points are a fragment of infinity, since they cannot be anything else. Any fragment of the infinite is in turn infinite, in the infinite nothing finite can exist. The only finite thing that can exist is the appearance of finitude. That is, the relative movement between those two points is finite, but those two points are not really moving if they are not contrasting each other. They are a reflection of infinity with itself, creating the appearance of movement.

So, if there are two points at infinity, each one is really infinite since any part of infinite infinity and therefore total infinity (basic mathematics) , then it would be more points or reflections reflecting each other. how many? infinite. They really are the same infinity, but it is reflected infinitely, creating movements that combine with each other to infinite power. Why are these movements one way and not another? Only because they are synchronous with each other, any asynchrony would result simply in not appearing as movement. Remember that movements are simply reflections of the infinite with itself, they are not "something", they are relative appearance from an absolute perspective, nothing is really happening because in infinity point a and point b are the same. Not evolution could happen, and no will could lead the movement to be in a way or another, because the only will that could be in infinity is infinite will, that is the will of existing, that happens for the only reason that the will of not existing don't exist. The will of existing makes that the infinity reflects itself infinitely in all directions, in infinite dimensions.

Then, do you want to see through the relative? First realize that what you really are is necessarily the infinity, because everything is that, nothing else could be. Then realize than any appearance is just relative, a reflection, and ultimately has no meaning. The only reason to appear is because it happens, because this movement is synchroniced to the infinite reflections. And infinite reflections happen just because the infinity has not a brake, not a limit, not a will of not exist that is in opposition to the will of existing. Then the infinite potential that infinity is develops infinitely, but all that appears really is just a reflection of the nature of infinity. And what is that nature? What infinity really is? It's you. You are that. Absolutely, totally. You can feel completely what you are, everything is you, everything that existed, exist and will exist in the eternity is you, and you are the unfathomable reality that is in the eternal now. Without form but with an absolute quality: the total potential, the absolute will of existing without opposite, because all the opposites of the positive push simply doesn't exist. Existence exist for the only reason that non existence doesn't exist. 

 

Edited November 7 by Breakingthewall

[James123]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

“Do you want to exist or not” was kinda funny for some reason. I’d like to see how no self is. “But you really don’t want to, or you would have” . My desire for enlightenment isn’t super strong so you have a point there

İmagine, your deep sleep or before so called birth. "You" can not see it, "you" must be drop and just Be. 

[James123]

İt is actually so easy, because it is You. That's all. 

[DreamScape]

On 11/5/2024 at 8:17 AM, enchanted said:

I had this immature notion for a long time that enlightened people are in a permanent and natural "5-meo like" high all the time. 

This can't be correct or is it?

 

There is no state of enlightenment. There are states of consciousness. Formlessness means that you are not stuck in one state, but flow through multiple. I could list reasons why. Ask a simple question: What is enlightenment? A gift or key of knowledge? Who are you speaking to? Where are you stuck? 

You seek more when you seek less. Why can't you sit down without thinking? There are reasons.  Ask the question again: What is enlightenment? Only you could know, because it is formless. Remember: What's the key?

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Do you want to exist or not. I guarantee you, if you were truly in the void or whatever it is and how they frame it, if you were truly in that dimension of oneness, no separation, and had everything at your disposal and at anytime just by wishing it and it's so in the blink of an eye for eternity, you'd be wishing for separation and ignorance again

Nonsense.

In any time of Unity Bliss oneness dimension or however you want to call It, i never had a thought saying "I want to feel ego again".

You say the same crap Mr Bazzoka Guy used to say 🥴🥴

Quote

It's who you truly are, only now you're the limited human able to experience yourself and to go through the challenges of what it feels like to be human. Can't be done without the illusion of a separate self. It can be broken, but you really don't want to, or you would have. This is why you're still seemingly alive.

The audacity... You think this is Mario Kart and God just design his own videogame and gets Lost because It wants it. Child-like thinking. 

 

Edited November 7 by Javfly33

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

İmagine, your deep sleep or before so called birth. "You" can not see it, "you" must be drop and just Be. 

If it was that easy to just drop my self 

[James123]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

If it was that easy to just drop my self 

İf You are ready to let go everything , it will come to you.

İt is You. 

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, James123 said:

İf You are ready to let go everything , it will come to you.

İt is You. 

I feel ready it’s just I just gotta put the work in and pursue it

[VeganAwake]

20 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Does meditation help in “seeing” this?

Maybe, seems like it's either recognized or its not. 

This question implies that there is a real "you" that could benefit from "seeing" this.

What's being said is there isn't a "you" 

The "you" that wants to see this, is the illusion of self!

❤️ 

[VeganAwake]

13 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

If there is not a you, what is? I guess that you mean with "you" the one who is perceiving the perception, the subject, the center of the experience. Then I agree more or less. The you exist but it's a relative impermanent construction that's happening in the reality. 

But if the you that's happening in the reality dissapear, the reality remains. There is no center, not opposite, not a subject, but still is, then you could say: I am that. Because it's true, you exist, then you are the existence.

How could "what is" be explained? It's completely unfathomable. It's everything and simultaneously nothing. And there's nothing else to compare it with, because it's already everything and nothing.

The very entity that claims "I am the human self" or "I am that", is the same self illusion....it just seems different!

❤️ 

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Maybe, seems like it's either recognized or its not. 

This question implies that there is a real "you" that could benefit from "seeing" this.

What's being said is there isn't a "you" 

The "you" that wants to see this, is the illusion of self!

❤️ 

Okay I see