Is enlightenment even possible?

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

But also you can’t get out of it. Which could be encouraging or whatever. It’s inescapable liberation.

6 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

You mean that this is already liberation?

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

Yea there’s looking and contraction but what if it’s no-one looking, just seeing.

Yea but it still seems like there’s an I looking..

[PurpleTree]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

Yea but it still seems like there’s an I looking..

But that’s just thoughts. What’s between "i am here" and "there’s nobody"?

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

I’ve heard "contemporary gurus" say. This is already liberation. There isn’t a step closer or further you could take from enlightenment. There isn’t a path. There isn’t a you to do that anyway.

Ah yes, the Neo-Advaita guru, the guru who was apparently always enlightened and never went on the spiritual path. Mmmmyes...

More seriously, Neo-Advaita pointers are useful for some people, for example people who have been on the path for a long time and have developed an attachment to the techniques and could benefit from letting go of them. I addressed this problem earlier. However, other people on the path should of course continue using techniques. If you can't close your eyes and sit still for 10 minutes, letting go of the techniques is probably not the best option.

Edited November 8 by Carl-Richard

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

However, of course other people on the path should continue using techniques. If you can't close your eyes and sit still for 10 minutes, letting go of the techniques is probably not the best choice.

There’s already no choice seemingly.

If it works for you fine but imo what you’re saying sounds a bit fennel on a stick thing. If you follow the path long and hard enough then this and that.

Gosh i miss fennie.

[UnbornTao]

15 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

You mean people can  think they had awakenings but it’s actually something relative they experienced?

Of course. Tends to be the norm, or so it seems. Maybe by its nature, it is uncommon for people to get, as it isn't found anywhere. And people may describe lots of this and that.

Quote

I myself one time I remember I have done some self inquiry and nothing happened, then one night I did it spontaneously and just asked myself “where is the I” and tried to locate it and I couldn’t for a brief moment it was cool. As you say though, it was a long time ago and I’m not fully sure if it was actually a glimpse or not. I could have conflated it with something else

Might have been.

Edited November 8 by UnbornTao

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

There’s already no choice seemingly.

If it works for you fine but imo what you’re saying sounds a bit fennel on a stick thing. If you follow the path long and hard enough then this and that.

Virtually every spiritual guru except Ramana went on the spiritual path. And Ramana awoke at a certain point in time. Neo-Advaita is a partial picture, and ironically it's a kind of technique. Different techniques are useful at different places on the path.

 

6 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Gosh i miss fennie.

Who?

Edited November 7 by Carl-Richard

[PurpleTree]

43 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

You mean that this is already liberation?

Yes seemingly. But for no one. 
 

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Who?

My lovely fennel.  I think i posted a pic of it in this thread. But then i just threw into a soup and ate it.

[Carl-Richard]

50 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Yes seemingly. But for no one. 

My lovely fennel.  I think i posted a pic of it in this thread. But then i just threw into a soup and ate it.

Nobody ate the soup.

Nihilistic language game is a language game. It's possible to speak about enlightenment like a normal person. 

Edited November 8 by Carl-Richard

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

 It's possible to speak about enlightenment like a normal person.

What is a normal person?

I say seemingly because everything is seemingly unknowable and i don’t want to sound as if i had some truth.

[Ajax]

On 11/5/2024 at 11:31 AM, Sugarcoat said:

Very informative . Thanks. I would say I got the basics down but for sure there is room for improvement. I dont really agree tho that you gotta get everything down before “enlightenment” . Desire for it could come before, and it can still be worth pursuing. 

Well, if you have suffering, you have problems you don't want to have.  Problems tend be related to survival... or at least survival potential.

Look... Ultimate Truth can be said to be an absence of... It is an absence of things to act with or through. 

This means an absence of things you can or can't have...   Including the absence of problems or the willingness or unwillingness to suffer. 

You have to remove the barriers holding you back before you can know the nothing-knowingness.

 As for your other point. Pursue what? How do you pursue an absence? 

Desire does not tell you what something is, what direction to proceed and how to get there. So how do you pursue if you don't know what it is you are pursuing?

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

What is a normal person?

Somebody who doesn't say they don't exist.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

Somebody who doesn't say they don't exist.

Ok

[Yimpa]

47 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Somebody who doesn't say they don't exist.

No wonder conservatives are so afraid of they/thems 

[Sugarcoat]

14 hours ago, Ajax said:

Well, if you have suffering, you have problems you don't want to have.  Problems tend be related to survival... or at least survival potential.

Look... Ultimate Truth can be said to be an absence of... It is an absence of things to act with or through. 

This means an absence of things you can or can't have...   Including the absence of problems or the willingness or unwillingness to suffer. 

You have to remove the barriers holding you back before you can know the nothing-knowingness.

 As for your other point. Pursue what? How do you pursue an absence? 

Desire does not tell you what something is, what direction to proceed and how to get there. So how do you pursue if you don't know what it is you are pursuing?

It’s a bit tricky there because in a sense you can’t want enlightenment because it’s not a “thing”

[Ajax]

10 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

It’s a bit tricky there because in a sense you can’t want enlightenment because it’s not a “thing”

Ok, that's good. 

So what is it that you are looking for? 

[Sugarcoat]

9 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Ok, that's good. 

So what is it that you are looking for? 

I still wanna begin pursuing enlightenment 

[Ajax]

5 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I still wanna begin pursuing enlightenment 

I see... 

Begin pursing a thing that is not a thing? 

Please explain... Also what is pursuing and how do you do it?

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Ajax said:

I see... 

Begin pursing a thing that is not a thing? 

Please explain... Also what is pursuing and how do you do it?

Pursuing by doing spiritual practice. As I said before it’s a bit tricky because enlightenment is not a “thing”

Edited November 8 by Sugarcoat

[Ajax]

6 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Pursuing by doing spiritual practice. As I said before it’s a bit tricky because enlightenment is not a thing

hmm... If I told you I wanted to have a professional basketball championship and I pursue it by " doing basketball practice"... what would you think?

A NBA (national basketball association) championship is not a thing for me... until the moment it is. Understand?  It may be for other people but not for me. It is not something I have... just the effect... the experience of... not the actual thing its self. A reflection of what is... in proportion to how much you put into the effect of.

Do you know where I am going with this?

Edited November 8 by Ajax