Is enlightenment even possible?

[Sugarcoat]

13 minutes ago, James123 said:

Actually "i" dropped. 

Is there something you’d consider the number one thing you did?

[Ramu]

@Sugarcoat Whearas before when I believed that I was in the Universe to 180 degrees later that I discovered I'm it.

[Ramu]

@Carl-Richard Yes!

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Ramu said:

@Sugarcoat Whearas before when I believed that I was in the Universe to 180 degrees later that I discovered I'm it.

that’s great you managed to “see” that. 

[UnbornTao]

6 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Thanks for the tips. May I ask if you’ve had awakenings etc? 

A couple glimpses here and there. But don't use that to believe what I said.

I wouldn't eagerly take someone's word for it, though. Profound consciousness is rare. And it seems lots of people conflate it with something that is there--in other words, something relative. In any case, breakthroughs are available to everyone, so some might be authentic--you just have to tell the truth about what you went through.

Edited November 7 by UnbornTao

[Sugarcoat]

4 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

A couple glimpses here and there. But don't use that to believe what I said.

I wouldn't eagerly take someone's word for it, though. Profound consciousness is rare. And it seems lots of people conflate it with something that is there--in other words, something relative. 

You mean people can  think they had awakenings but it’s actually something relative they experienced?

 

I myself one time I remember I have done some self inquiry and nothing happened, then one night I did it spontaneously and just asked myself “where is the I” and tried to locate it and I couldn’t for a brief moment it was cool. As you say though, it was a long time ago and I’m not fully sure if it was actually a glimpse or not. I could have conflated it with something else

[James123]

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Is there something you’d consider the number one thing you did?

Psychedelics within darkness and silence for months. 

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

spontaneously and just asked myself “where is the I” and tried to locate it and I couldn’t for a brief moment

Can you locate it now?

[Carl-Richard]

16 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

You mean people can  think they had awakenings but it’s actually something relative they experienced?

 

I myself one time I remember I have done some self inquiry and nothing happened, then one night I did it spontaneously and just asked myself “where is the I” and tried to locate it and I couldn’t for a brief moment it was cool. As you say though, it was a long time ago and I’m not fully sure if it was actually a glimpse or not. I could have conflated it with something else

I think judging whether someone has had a "legitimate" awakening glimpse or not is not that important. Glimpses can vary in strength and profundity quite widely. What I think is more important is that many people make the mistake of having an awakening glimpse and then thinking they're enlightened.

This is understandable, as especially one's first awakening (depending on the profundity) tends to lead to a lasting change of some kind, and it can be experienced as quite radical. However, enlightenment is usually much more radical than that and comes much later after many many glimpses. When the glimpses start happening by themselves and outside of any control or intention (and you're not on drugs), that is a sign you're getting closer to enlightenment.

I also think this mistake becomes more prevalent when there are drugs involved, especially drugs like weed that you take regularly and makes you "more present". And it becomes even more prevalent when there are egoic drivers involved, e.g. you want to be enlightened to fix some problem.

Edited November 8 by Carl-Richard

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

enlightenment is usually much more radical than that and comes much later after many many glimpses. When the glimpses start happening by themselves and outside of any control or intention, that is a sign you're getting closer to enlightenment.

How do you know that when you said you’re not enlightened or liberated?

[Carl-Richard]

22 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

How do you know that when you said you’re not enlightened or liberated?

Because I've been close to what I've intuited as enlightenment. And it agrees with the general religious and scientific literature and opinions by contemporary gurus.

Edited November 7 by Carl-Richard

[PurpleTree]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Because I've been close to what I've intuited as enlightenment. And it agrees with the general religious and scientific literature and opinions by contemporary gurus.

I’ve heard "contemporary gurus" say. This is already liberation. There isn’t a step closer or further you could take from enlightenment. There isn’t a path. There isn’t a you to do that anyway.

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Psychedelics within darkness and silence for months. 

Cool . You mean you spent time in darkness and silence 

Edited November 7 by Sugarcoat

[James123]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

Cool . You mean you spent time in darkness and silence 

Close to 6 months 

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Can you locate it now?

Yes I’m here!

[Sugarcoat]

52 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think judging whether someone has had a "legitimate" awakening glimpse or not is not that important. Glimpses can vary in strength and profundity quite widely. What I think is more important is that many people make the mistake of having an awakening glimpse and then thinking they're enlightened.

This is understandable, as especially one's first awakening (depending on the profundity) tends to lead to a lasting change of some kind, and it can be experienced as quite radical. However, enlightenment is usually much more radical than that and comes much later after many many glimpses. When the glimpses start happening by themselves and outside of any control or intention (or being under the influence of drugs), that is a sign you're getting closer to enlightenment.

I also think this mistake becomes more prevalent when there are drugs involved, especially drugs like weed that you take regularly and makes you "more present". And it becomes even more prevalent when there are egoic drivers involved, e.g. you want to be enlightened to fix some problem.

Okay I understand . 

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yes I’m here!

Where? And what if that’s just a thought?

[Sugarcoat]

17 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I’ve heard "contemporary gurus" say. This is already liberation. There isn’t a step closer or further you could take from enlightenment. There isn’t a path. There isn’t a you to do that anyway.

It can be discouraging to hear . But I still think it’s worth pursuing if one wants it

Edited November 7 by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

Where? And what if that’s just a thought?

My mind says “right here”. That is a thought , but there’s something that is not a thought, my mind says again. It’s like this contracted sense of I’m here in the skull looking out from my eyes 

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

It can be discouraging to hear . But I still think it’s worth pursuing if one wants it

But also you can’t get out of it. Which could be encouraging or whatever. It’s inescapable liberation.

4 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

My mind says “right here”. That is a thought , but there’s something that is not a thought, my mind says again. It’s like this contracted sense of I’m here in the skull looking out from my eyes 

Yea there’s looking and contraction but what if it’s no-one looking, just seeing.