Is enlightenment even possible?

[Ramu]

@Sugarcoat yes enlightenment IS possible.  I've had several awakenings,  but I've also been contemplating reality since I was a young child.  However,  despite being Awakened I don't do yoga or meditation or listen to yogis or go to spiritual groups or chant or go to the Buddhist meditation center or do Kriya yoga.  A lot of "spiritual people" do that stuff, but I don't.   It's unnecessary for me because I reject the student/master horsecrap, and other techniques that newbies find necessary.   Those techniques actually are helpful to people new to this, but I'm light-years ahead of that because I've been doing this for over 50 years.

 

[Sugarcoat]

12 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

And now throw out all that you think you know about this, it is garbage. Is it possible? If it isn't, what's with Gautama and the seemingly sincere others who claim to have had breakthrough into their nature? Maybe a few of them were authentic. That opens the door for contemplation. 

The question seems to be asked as a way to undermine the "quest" from the beginning; it's the easy way out--nothing to do, just making a conclusion. Beyond any assertion of its impossibility, what's true remains unknown to us--this is the underlying condition we find ourselves in. Are you going to let that stop you from looking into it?

I don’t know much at all about it that’s why I’m asking. I do believe there are alive people today who have achieved enlightenment, the question is then how, some non dualists say nothing leads to it. Im not saying that is a reason not to try at all, I’m gonna start meditating again for example, but it sure can feel a bit discouraging, like it’s impossible. 
 

You’re right, if I would come to the conclusion that nothing can be done then that’s in a way the easy way out. I didn’t come to that conclusion though. 
 

I will look into it. 

Edited November 7 by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

11 hours ago, Ramu said:

@Sugarcoat yes enlightenment IS possible.  I've had several awakenings,  but I've also been contemplating reality since I was a young child.  However,  despite being Awakened I don't do yoga or meditation or listen to yogis or go to spiritual groups or chant or go to the Buddhist meditation center or do Kriya yoga.  A lot of "spiritual people" do that stuff, but I don't.   It's unnecessary for me because I reject the student/master horsecrap, and other techniques that newbies find necessary.   Those techniques actually are helpful to people new to this, but I'm light-years ahead of that because I've been doing this for over 50 years.

 

Damn over 50 years. What is your baseline state today?

[NoSelfSelf]

12 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

the question is then how, some non dualists say nothing leads to it. 

8 hours of contemplating present moment every day or 8 hours meditation straight or whatever suits you for years. I created my technique and did it every day.

But you need to work on your ego too it goes hand to hand.

Its not all spiritual practice sure it will get you there but still you will be stuck in ego if you wish to go outside comfort zone...

 

 

Edited November 7 by NoSelfSelf

[Sugarcoat]

5 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

8 hours of contemplating present moment every day or 8 hours meditation straight or whatever suits you for years. I created my technique and did it every day.

 

 

I’m gonna start meditating so I’ll see how much I do during my free time. The longest I’ve done in past is 3 hours. 8 hours damn that’s intense but I bet it gave great results . Thanks for the tip. 

Edited November 7 by Sugarcoat

[NoSelfSelf]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

I’m gonna start meditating so I’ll see how much I do during my free time. The longest I’ve done in past is 3 hours. 8 hours damn that’s intense but I bet it gave great results . Thanks for the tip. 

I was doing 8+ hours of meditating but found out meditation is most inferior way to get there.

Also your attitude ill see how much ill do in my free time,one must make enlightment above everything if you not "talented".

To me it was my whole existence from wake up to night.

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

I was doing 8+ hours of meditating but found out meditation is most inferior way to get there.

Also your attitude ill see how much ill do in my free time,one must make enlightment above everything if you not "talented".

To me it was my whole existence from wake up to night.

Why you say it’s inferior? Is that present moment contemplation you mentioned superior?

I used to be all about my ideal self from morning to night literally, as you say but then something happened to change that. Now to be honest I’m only into this enlightenment thing because I wanna end my suffering that’s it really. But yes you’re right I have to make it top priority to get anywhere. I will try. It’s not what I’ve been into in my life before. 

[Ramu]

@Sugarcoat my baseline state?  Everything is basically the same , but it's flipped 180 degrees.  I was interested in reality early on, but I was a hard-core believer in a physical universe.  My sophomore year I started having intense synchronicity experiences...that started to open my eyes to a deeper Truth.

[NoSelfSelf]

5 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Why you say it’s inferior? Is that present moment contemplation you mentioned superior?

I used to be all about my ideal self from morning to night literally, as you say but then something happened to change that. Now to be honest I’m only into this enlightenment thing because I wanna end my suffering that’s it really. But yes you’re right I have to make it top priority to get anywhere. I will try. It’s not what I’ve been into in my life before. 

Actually im not sure exactly why its inferior its only that i didnt get any enlightment "experience" through meditating only cool effects.What usually got me enlightment experience is contemplating by watching from where im watching,that will show you insights+after 8 hours of it at night i would get hit by enlightment experience(or ego death) that made mind more and more quiet with each one,so when mind is more quiet you see better from where you watching from.Like mudded waters if they less muddy you would notice things better.

It will end your suffering if you do nothing,but with stronger ego it will create stronger action but will also help with being more centered in enlightment experience.

[Sugarcoat]

32 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Actually im not sure exactly why its inferior its only that i didnt get any enlightment "experience" through meditating only cool effects.What usually got me enlightment experience is contemplating by watching from where im watching,that will show you insights+after 8 hours of it at night i would get hit by enlightment experience(or ego death) that made mind more and more quiet with each one,so when mind is more quiet you see better from where you watching from.Like mudded waters if they less muddy you would notice things better.

It will end your suffering if you do nothing,but with stronger ego it will create stronger action but will also help with being more centered in enlightment experience.

“Contemplating by watching from where I’m watching”  So observing oneself? Like self inquiry. Attention on self. 
 

 

[Sugarcoat]

40 minutes ago, Ramu said:

@Sugarcoat my baseline state?  Everything is basically the same , but it's flipped 180 degrees.  I was interested in reality early on, but I was a hard-core believer in a physical universe.  My sophomore year I started having intense synchronicity experiences...that started to open my eyes to a deeper Truth.

What do you mean flipped 180 degrees? 

[NoSelfSelf]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

“Contemplating by watching from where I’m watching”  So observing oneself? Like self inquiry. Attention on self. 
 

 

 Attention of the process of watching and from where you watching.So yeah attention to self but layers of ego needs to be pealed too.

So with this one you are more observing and inquirying vs just inquirying what am i?

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

What do you mean flipped 180 degrees? 

He probably went from being a person experiencing life to life experiencing a person 😆

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I don’t know much at all about it that’s why I’m asking. I do believe there are alive people today who have achieved enlightenment, the question is then how, some non dualists say nothing leads to it. Im not saying that is a reason not to try at all, I’m gonna start meditating again for example, but it sure can feel a bit discouraging, like it’s impossible. 
 

You’re right, if I would come to the conclusion that nothing can be done then that’s in a way the easy way out. I didn’t come to that conclusion though. 
 

I will look into it. 

Okay. Maybe look into Zen with fresh eyes, particularly Rinzai and Dogen. This is just inspiration or a direction to explore.

Get a sense of yourself and question what that experience is. Get it now. That's the gist of the practice. The "what" can be questioned after getting who you are.

[James123]

4 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

“Contemplating by watching from where I’m watching”  So observing oneself? Like self inquiry. Attention on self. 
 

 

On 11/5/2024 at 9:27 PM, Sugarcoat said:

I have gaps between my thoughts, sometimes longer, and I still feel I exist during the gaps. To me the thoughts are not the sense of self

İmagine with enlightenment experience you even forget to think. That's how one can realize the truth. 

Moreover, this takes years of contemplation, meditation and psychedelic trips. 

İ have stayed darkness and silence for months, consume psychedelics over 100 times and dedicate almost my entire life then realization happened that is non realization or stop perceiving as deep sleep or before so called birth.

[Sugarcoat]

5 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Attention of the process of watching and from where you watching.So yeah attention to self but layers of ego needs to be pealed too.

So with this one you are more observing and inquirying vs just inquirying what am i?

As I wrote in my original post I have experienced a lot of shedding of the layers to the ego because of this thing I call “self concentration” maybe it’s similar to what you describe, maybe not. But I have not yet experienced full ego death (except one time I’m not fully sure but I had some kind of glimpse it seems) so that’s what I’m shooting for. I think I can somehow understand what you mean.

[Sugarcoat]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

He probably went from being a person experiencing life to life experiencing a person 😆

I guess that’s the goal 

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Okay. Maybe look into Zen with fresh eyes, particularly Rinzai and Dogen. This is just inspiration or a direction to explore.

Get a sense of yourself and question what that experience is. Get it now. That's the gist of the practice. The "what" can be questioned after getting who you are.

Thanks for the tips. May I ask if you’ve had awakenings etc? 

Edited November 7 by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

48 minutes ago, James123 said:

İmagine with enlightenment experience you even forget to think. That's how one can realize the truth. 

Moreover, this takes years of contemplation, meditation and psychedelic trips. 

İ have stayed darkness and silence for months, consume psychedelics over 100 times and dedicate almost my entire life then realization happened that is non realization or stop perceiving as deep sleep or before so called birth.

That’s great you managed to realize that!

[James123]

7 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

That’s great you managed to realize that!

Actually "i" dropped.