Is enlightenment even possible?

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

The only way to become enlightened is to want it sincerely more than anything else. But be careful, it may not be what you want. The dark night of the soul is no joke.

Your signature is interesting. The point is realizing that the emptiness is the absolute potential, that's our true nature. 

[PurpleTree]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

The only way to become enlightened is to want it sincerely more than anything else. But be careful, it may not be what you want. The dark night of the soul is no joke.

Nice. So do you believe in free will?

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Nice. So do you believe in free will?

Good luck with free will when your nuts get bitten by a chimpanzee.

Being free from pain is a blessing… and then nature strikes. 

[PurpleTree]

11 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Good luck with free will when your nuts get bitten by a chimpanzee.

Being free from pain is a blessing… and then nature strikes. 

Or when lobsters in hierarchical structures drag you down the bucket is also bad.

[gettoefl]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The senses are just a form, but you are, and you can't not be. The senses and perception are inside of what you are, you can't use them to break anything. What anything is is the being,.what is, and this emerges from the absence of limits, and has a character: it's absolute potential. That means that it's power is total, it's the true nature of everything, it's the same a bird, a rat of the entire universe, everything is the same, and you can perceive it because you are that. No delusion can be, it's absolutely obvious, no doubt.

But realizing that doesn't mean that you will be always happy, that's a mistake. You are still a human, and a human has needs, and if that needs are not fulfilled you suffer. If people dies or anything. But you can rest a while in your absolute nature and this is pure happiness because nothing lacks there, it's everything, Then you are again in the human an suffer. I guess that you could renounce to the human and be absolutely focused in your absolute nature, let yourself go without control, then you would be happy always 

Good counter-example here is Jesus

He underwent the last useless journey so you won't have to

Being nailed to a cross and left to bleed to the bone

He showed what it is to be unfazed and unflappable

Forgive them since they don't know what they do

I came to show you that body is nothing and suffering likewise

You are not a body except when ego speaks on your behalf

He doesn't want your following or fawning

Just learn the lesson so you don't need to make up any more silly torture stories

It is not rocket science

Edited November 5 by gettoefl

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

He underwent the last useless journey so you won't have to

I suppose there would have been thousands or hundreds of thousands of guys like Jesus, but that doesn't help me at all, I can't say: since that guy was like that, I'm going to be like that too, since I'm not. I should cleanse my being of any trace of selfishness and be absolutely pure, and I am not. could i do it? I dont think so, It's not my goal at all. 

[Max1993]

@Sugarcoat The You, or the ego, is just a collection of thoughts, there is nobody even here to become enlightened. Everything is happening automatically and for the best. You don't even generate thoughts, they just happen. You still take thoughts to be you. How can you be the temporary movie? Identify as the watching itself. Let the basic happening of life happen, without adding a "self' as another layer. 

[Sugarcoat]

19 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Its not intuition you literally see that everything is conciousness with your own eyes.Its right there and you can see you are it.Once at a family dinner i said you are all inside me 😆 meaning whole room is me and is seen clearly,its new reality opened up.But it shocks you at first then becomes normal like anything else.

Its like invisible ocean you are swimming in and you are it at the same time.

I don’t think I see that so we differ there. If I did then I’m guessing it would be obvious. I’m still stuck in self. I did have that massive shift tho over a year ago I don’t know what that was but it was like new reality opened up as you say. Don’t know what to call it or what to call myself. But I know I’m not at a finish line at least. 

[Sugarcoat]

18 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Yes it is possible out of infinite possibilities

The probability tho 😳less than winning Olympic gold

[Sugarcoat]

13 hours ago, caspex said:

What is enlightenment exactly?

I define it as no sense of self maybe I’m wrong though 

[Sugarcoat]

10 hours ago, Razard86 said:

The only way to become enlightened is to want it sincerely more than anything else. But be careful, it may not be what you want. The dark night of the soul is no joke.

I think desire plays a big role too . In my experience it does. But the thing is though that enlightenment is not an object that one can want, that’s the deal so it’s like you’re seeking nothing 

[Sugarcoat]

33 minutes ago, Max1993 said:

@Sugarcoat The You, or the ego, is just a collection of thoughts, there is nobody even here to become enlightened. Everything is happening automatically and for the best. You don't even generate thoughts, they just happen. You still take thoughts to be you. How can you be the temporary movie? Identify as the watching itself. Let the basic happening of life happen, without adding a "self' as another layer. 

I think the self is deeper than thoughts it’s like a energetic sense of I’m here

[James123]

4 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I think the self is deeper than thoughts it’s like a energetic sense of I’m here

What if only thoughts create the self, and without a thought You are your true self?

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, James123 said:

What if only thoughts create the self, and without a thought You are your true self?

I still feel like I exist when my mind is quiet, in between thoughts

[Sugarcoat]

6 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

11 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Only fools want to be always happy

I guess that you could be 90% pure happiness if you really renounce to the mundane and are open to your nature all time.

11 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Happiness has an expiration time to flow through

Happiness is existing without any mental hindrance that prevents the happiness 

 

How about physical pain and ailments? Is that suffering different if you’re enlightened or in an enlightened “state” ? Maybe you can’t answer this but I’ve been curious about it

[James123]

5 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I still feel like I exist when my mind is quiet, in between thoughts

Do you exist while in deep sleep? Why do you think that deep sleep is almost identical with before birth?

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

Do you exist while in deep sleep? Why do you think that deep sleep is almost identical with before birth?

I don’t feel I exist in deep sleep . Deep sleep is different from a state of no thought. 

[NoSelfSelf]

20 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I don’t think I see that so we differ there. If I did then I’m guessing it would be obvious. I’m still stuck in self. I did have that massive shift tho over a year ago I don’t know what that was but it was like new reality opened up as you say. Don’t know what to call it or what to call myself. But I know I’m not at a finish line at least. 

Trust in your experience and what you saw as your own way for your path.

How i experienced on and off psychadelics is there are degrees, how much your illusion drops that much you get absorbed into conciousness like levels in video game.At one point you will notice that barrier between you and your room is broken by seeing that whole room is made out of same "substance" as you.Then you wont even notice it if you dont stop and look by being absorbed in your human experience.

[Ajax]

On 11/4/2024 at 3:22 AM, Sugarcoat said:

I don’t mean to sound negative but I’m wondering if this enlightenment thing is even possible. I’ve done some self inquiry, contemplation, meditation, just a tiny bit psychedelics, have had maybe one natural glimpse, and have shed many layers to the self over the years, but it’s still alive so in one way I haven’t gotten anywhere. 
 

Look at Leo for example, he is a prime example. Isn’t he all about enlightenment? He has probably done so so much more practice than me, but he is still not enlightened, he is still operating from a human ego. Or am I wrong about this? If one of the most dedicated people in this isn’t even enlightened what is the hope for the rest of us who might not be equally as dedicated? How much does one have to do? Is it just a matter of keep trying? Any success stories ?

 Hey Sugar... I am going to tell you how it is... No BS.

The word Actualize means... To make it into a reality. 

This means that you have to have the Maslow's Hierarchy of needs completed to your satisfaction.

I listed them by level starting with "Physiological need." "Think of it like a spine... if one of these levels are not completely cleared and aligned you will have pain and suffering." "A pain in the back"

 Level 1. Is your body healthy and doing well? Are you sleeping enough? Are you eating having good nutritious foods?  Do you have clean drinking water... free of toxins?

 Level 2. How is your health? Your activity and fitness levels? Do you feel secure in your job? Are you happy with your Job? Is There room for growth or do you feel limited and squashed? Are you satisfied with your living space?  Your cars and possessions? What conditions are they in? How are your relationships with your family? Do you have deep meaningful relationships with others? Can you be assertive and not be a pushover... or take criticism and not go on the attack. Can you allow people to be without criticizing?

 Level 3. Is your relationships and conditions of love and belonging in a good condition? Do you have great meaningful friendships... how deep and meaningful are they? How about lovers/partners if you have them? Or are you 100% happy without them (The key here is your condition of love and belonging)? How connected are you to other people, things, your environment... how much love and affinity do you feel for other people? How much love and belonging can you put out and receive in exchange? Can you allow people to be without judgement and love them unconditionally? (you don't have to love what they do, just what they are without prejudice or anger, hate hostility... that is a test of your spiritual condition and your current position in generating unconditional love)

 Level 4. Self-esteem is a big subject but look at each point on the pyramid: Confident, achievements, respect for others, individuality. Write them out, find out where you are confident and where you are not. Write out your achievements write what your achievements and things you want to achieve and why and what you want to do with it.  Basically, look at both the positive and negative of each point (and every point on the pyramid). 

 Level 5.  Your success in this area depends totally on the stability of the other areas.  There are laws (technology)  ways to know and do things... and you have to be able to use them to not only handle the pyramid... but the insanities of life. There are books I could write on this... but you really have to handle the previous 4 levels first.  BE DO HAVE is one of those laws. 

Think of the pyramid as a massive wall, or window that prevents your entry into the "door to immortality" "it is a massive barrier that separates you from "Enlightenment". The opposite of blind is see. The opposite of light is dark. The Pyramid is darkness you cannot see through. You will never be enlightenment until you handle that pyramid. 

.  You have to remove every piece and clean and clear almost every piece of that pyramid until you can see clearly through the pyramid to... have enough light to "see the truth." 

 

So in your current position... Enlightenment is not possible for you.  Why? Because you got a big ass pyramid blocking your path. But you could handle that barrier and change your life if you want it  bad enough and are willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen.

 I know this doesn't seem spiritual, but you have to actualize before you spiritualize! Why? What does God do?  Turn things into reality. Two qualities of god:  God knows. God brings something out of nothing. 

If you don't know and can't actualize your reality... you are not being spiritual and certainly not being godly.  How can you "be" god, when you don't do what god does? Your limited self would rather stay behind the wall and not break through the Actualization wall and then live in fear and doubt... wanting to travel beyond but not doing what it takes to get there. 

 

I see this problem with virtually every person here. I myself am still working on this... though I have made a good deal of progress. 

Edited November 5 by Ajax

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

I suppose there would have been thousands or hundreds of thousands of guys like Jesus, but that doesn't help me at all, I can't say: since that guy was like that, I'm going to be like that too, since I'm not. I should cleanse my being of any trace of selfishness and be absolutely pure, and I am not. could i do it? I dont think so, It's not my goal at all. 

I am just happy one has made it and can point it out simply

There is no need to follow just take their pointings and put in the work

That's what paths like A Course in Miracles do

Helps me greatly even though I know all paths and all mystics point to the exact same truth