Given the current level of development of our society, is Trump the better choice?

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, josemar said:

Can we not see the institution of the president outside of the actual person performing the function? If people like the promises one side makes over another, what would make them vote for the opposing side, "well the particular  individual chosen to fulfill those promises might have done some bad things"... Right, but is that enough to vote for the opposing side, and abandon all hope for what you actually want implemented?

Yes, they're only promises for now, but Kamala had almost 4 years in power and she still blames Trump for ...  being a presidential candidate? 

These are the policies I like the republicans over democrats for... any one of these is a one issue vote, luckily all are correctly chosen by the republicans...

 

1. PRO Free speech / First amendment. By contrast, the dems want to censor whoever they don't like (which they already were doing before Musk bought twitter)

2. Pro bitcoin. If a politician is against inflation-proof store of value and is favoring the bankers that will steal your money slowly through inflation hoping you won't notice, I'm not voting for them.

3. Lower (income) taxes. When is that ever a bad thing? Kamala is floating all kinds of ideas on increasing taxes and taxing unrealized profits!!!. Is she crazy? No, just shallow.

4. Decrease size of and make government more efficient.Why would I vote for a party that wants to increase taxes (to sustain an inefficient too large government), that increased the number of IRS agents to check my every little sale of old shoes?

5. A more sane approach to the newest gender ideology. Offering sex changes to illegal migrants in prison? Yeah... I don't think this is the highest priority.

Watch the stock market and bitcoin tank if Kamala wins... tells you all you need to know about how economy-friendly each party is.

 

I have to agree with you here.  Thank you for laying out the policies. I don't know what I feel about this whole sex gender thing.  It's very complex.   I do think you are born that way but I think there are many that are confused about that, and many that might not be.  The liberal view is to just give the benefit of the doubt.   But it's a complex issue.

[What Am I]

@Joshe sincerely sorry to let you down. I'm sure my reasoning is especially obnoxious, lol.

[Inliytened1]

25 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Damn guys. This is just sad. In one of Leo's videos, he told you you're a fool if you try to evaluate Trump on policy... and I concur. It's the most absurd shit. 

The only reason you need to vote Kamala is to vote against Trump. That's it.

No that would be a deep bias. That's very flawed especially if you want to view it through the lens of metaphysics.   In fact it is quite the opposite.   Be careful because Leo doesn't mix his metaphysics with politics. He's extremely bias when it comes to.politics and he knows it.  Look, to an extent everyone is.  I'm very bias towards the Jews even though I know what they're doing in Gaza is wrong.  You have to look at the whole thing.  The policies are important just as the person is.

Edited November 4 by Inliytened1

[Joshe]

@What Am I I'm curious. You being someone who values peace and harmony, what do you make of Trump's character and someone like him being in position of the presidency? I suspect you're reasoning is it's worth the gamble that our institutions are strong enough to withstand him for another term, and since you have that to lean on, you think it's worth the risk to buck the establishment. Is that pretty much your thinking? 

Because if peace and harmony are some of your top values, you'd find yourself in deep shit trying to convince yourself or anyone else that your Trump vote is a vote for unity, peace, harmony, etc. 

Can someone please just lay out the logic. Anti-establishment is not enough. You have to demonstrate how you deal with the toxic wrecking ball that is Trump. Do you think he's just not that toxic? 

I remember when he first got in in 2016. It was clear to me that if you have someone like that at the head of the nation, they can do irreparable damage to the country. I imagined children at home watching him demonstrate hate, spite, selfishness, vindictiveness, attacking people and calling them names, and just the impact of that alone should be enough to let you know something isn't right. I knew that it was a huge mistake to have that in the highest office in the land and that it could produce dire, unforeseeable consequences. The risk is too great. 

How do you, a spiritual person, justify a vote for someone who embodies all values COMPLETELY antithetical to your stated values? He is full of hate, and you think it's a good idea to vote for him.

I won't try to convince you of anything, I'd just like to understand. 

Edited November 4 by Joshe

[Joshe]

20 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No that would be a deep bias. That's very flawed especially if you want to view it through the lens of metaphysics.   In fact it is quite the opposite.   Be careful because Leo doesn't mix his metaphysics with politics. He's extremely bias when it comes to.politics and he knows it.  Look, to an extent everyone is.  I'm very bias towards the Jews even though I know what they're doing in Gaza is wrong.  You have to look at the whole thing.  The policies are important just as the person is.

If the devil came up from hell and promised you all the things Trump was, would you consider his policies or would you instinctively know that it would be absurd to consider his policies? 

Also, I don't take my marching orders from Leo. lol. I just happen to agree with him here. Leo is wise. If he couldn't see the truth of Trump, he wouldn't be. 

Edited November 4 by Joshe

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Joshe said:

If the devil came up from hell and promised you all the things Trump was, would you consider his policies or would you instinctively know that it would be absurd to consider his policies? 

What Im saying is Leo has a bias towards Trump as a person thus you would never even get to his polices if you are Leo because he already dismissed him as the devil.  I'm saying if you really think he's a bad guy and you derived this by your own conclusions than that is fair.  And I understand why it's not pertinent for you to look at his policies.  All I'm saying is that maybe he's not the devil you say he is.  There is that possibility. 

Edited November 4 by Inliytened1

[Puer Aeternus]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

No, I listened to the guy as a human being

First mistake.. You trust a devil's words too much. Of course it would be the same mistake to trust KH in a similar way. But still, this devil is particularly devilish. 

Edited November 4 by Puer Aeternus
typo

[Joshe]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

What Im saying is Leo has a bias towards Trump as a person thus you would never even get to his polices if you are Leo because he already dismissed him as the devil.  I'm saying if you really think he's a bad guy and you derived this by your own conclusions than that is fair.  And I understand why it's not pertinent for you to look at his policies.  All I'm saying is that maybe he's not the devil you say he is.  There is that possibility. 

Ok, so, he either is or isn't. One of us is dead wrong. I know who and what he is, and it's not out of bias. It's simply reading reality for what it is. It doesn't take a genius to see it either. 

But again, I ask you, if the devil came up from hell and had good policy proposals and was running against Kamala, would you dismiss them outright and not consider them? 

Of course you would because you know the Devil's character. 

Now, it's easily verifiable fact that Trump is a lying, cheating, snake oil con artist. And you're considering his policies. I want to know why. 

You must not be able to discern the truth of what he is, or either you're operating on bias or just don't care or have fallen victim to propaganda, or a mixture of all these. 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Puer Aeternus said:

First mistake.. You trust a devil's words too much. Of course it would be the same mistake to trust KH in a similar way. But still, this devil is particularly devilish. 

Well..Harris didn't bother to come on to the show.   I thought the show was really great because we saw a side of Trump as a person you don't see ordinarily.   If you want to say he was faking it the whole way OK.  Maybe he's that good.   But I think you give him way too much credit.   And like I said ..she didn't even come on..which to me says a lot.

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, Joshe said:

 

You must not be able to discern the truth of what he is, or either you're operating on bias

I thought deeply about this.  And then I saw him on Joe Rogan.  A human. Flawed.   Have you lied or cheated on anything? I think most of us have.    It doesn't make us corrupt.  

Edited November 4 by Inliytened1

[LittoDitto]

Trump manipulates in a lower consciousness way than Harris does.

 

Did you steal my sandwich, Trump?

Trump: No, Harris did.

Did you steal my sandwich, Harris?

Harris: One of us stole your sandwich.

 

Right now I think both parties are bad, but one produces a lot more confusion than the other.

[Joshe]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

I thought deeply about this.  And then I saw him on Joe Rogan.  A human. Flawed.   Have you lied or cheated on anything? I think most of us have.   

Yeah, see, if you think Trump is a typical human who makes mistakes just like anyone else, I can understand why you'd consider him a viable candidate. 

Thing is, if he was a typical human, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Wise people wouldn't be screaming from the rooftops about him. 

Dude, Trump literally operates 24/7 on con artistry, lies, and cheating. It's who he is. That's the truth and it's odd how anyone could miss it.

Question: Do you believe that everyone who claims what I'm claiming here has arrived at their judgement based on faulty or biased reasoning? Have you figured out what we're saying and concluded it's inaccurate? 

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, LittoDitto said:

Trump manipulates in a lower consciousness way than Harris does.

 

Did you steal my sandwich, Trump?

Trump: No, Harris did.

Did you steal my sandwich, Harris?

Harris: One of us stole your sandwich.

 

Right now I think both parties are bad, but one produces a lot more confusion than the other.

The real question of the day is whether or not the sandwich was peanut butter, or peanut butter and jelly 

To me - Jelly changes the whole deal.  It promotes a much sloppier politics.  I believe in a politics where napkins aren't needed.  

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Yeah, see, if you think Trump is a typical human who makes mistakes just like anyone else, I can understand why you'd consider him a viable candidate. 

Thing is, if he was a typical human, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Wise people wouldn't be screaming from the rooftops about him. 

Dude, Trump literally operates 24/7 on con artistry, lies, and cheating. It's who he is. That's the truth and it's odd how anyone could miss it.

Question: Do you believe that everyone who claims what I'm claiming here has arrived at their judgement based on faulty or biased reasoning? Have you figured out what we're saying and concluded it's inaccurate? 

It's fair and that's what I wanted in this thread.   Ultimately I wanted someone to talk me out of changing my mind and voting for Trump on Tuesday.  I can't say I'm there but you made a strong argument.  You attacked his character which I know is flawed for sure and why I turned towards Harris initially.   I just don't know If its enough though and I don't know if it's enough for the country.   We want change just as we wanted it in 2016.  This is going to be a nail biter 

Edited November 4 by Inliytened1

[lostingenosmaze]

I just watched this today. Even at this guy's attempt to make a "nuanced" take between the two candidates, it only makes sense to vote for Kamala with what he presented here, the idea that voting for Trump will somehow lead to a utopian technocracy is ludicrous.

Edited November 4 by lostingenosmaze

[Bobby_2021]

Given the current level of development, Trump seems to be the inevitable choice not the better one. But who cares about this clown show anyway. 

[Joshe]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's fair and that's what I wanted in this thread.   Ultimately I wanted someone to talk me out of changing my mind and voting for Trump on Tuesday.  I can't say I'm there but you made a strong argument.  You attacked his character which I know is flawed for sure and why I turned towards Harris initially.   I just don't know If its enough though and I don't know if it's enough for the country.   We want change just as we wanted it in 2016.  This is going to be a nail biter 

Thanks! 

Lastly, consider this: Imagine if we're right about Trump and you vote for him. How much would it bother you if we turned out to be right and he actually does the damage some people are worried about? 

At least try to steelman the position so you don't potentially find yourself in that situation. IDK the best documentary or anything but it's all out there, from the horse's mouth. This one is on Prime but not sure how good it is. 

Do the right thing. Vote against hate. 

 

[Joshe]

18 minutes ago, lostingenosmaze said:

I just watched this today. Even at this guy's attempt to make a "nuanced" take between the two candidates, it only makes sense to vote for Kamala even with what he presented here, the idea that voting for Trump will somehow lead to a utopian technocracy is ludicrous.

Haha, is that what people are telling themselves now?

He left out the potential scenario where Trump throws Elon under the bus, seizes all his assets, and has him jailed for life when he doesn't bend the knee and kiss the ring just right. 

 

[aurum]

At this point, I'm done trying to convince people. I'm just issuing warnings.

You have been told time and time again, ad nasuem, why Trump is so bad.

At some point you will understand what a mistake you made voting for him. When that happens, I hope you experience the pain of realizing what you did, but also eventually find forgiveness for yourself. 

[Inliytened1]

30 minutes ago, lostingenosmaze said:

I just watched this today. Even at this guy's attempt to make a "nuanced" take between the two candidates, it only makes sense to vote for Kamala with what he presented here, the idea that voting for Trump will somehow lead to a utopian technocracy is ludicrous.

It's more that the economy will get better, inflation will decrease, income tax will go down and we will have stronger borders.   To me getting Trump.in office will solidify this while keeping Kamala in office will prevent this.  It's not about him being a dictator or anything like that because he wasn't four years ago.