No Self and God

[Princess Arabia]

4 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

If ideas do not Matter go hit your knee with a hammer and then with a cushion. It should feel the same.

Ideas are relative but can be more or less aligned with the mechanics of Reality.

Which is why if you lose your Mind and become insane you could lose the ability of having the idea that is wiser to hit your knee with a cushion that with a hammer.

So the Mind and ideas have their place, they are a limited creation of Consciousness.

As long as you are in any limited state of consciousness ideas have their utility. 

You have a hard time with discernment because you're confusing your fake identity to that which is. Of course, I have ideas. This whole forum is about ideas. I said your ideas about reality is not reality. FYI, the universe doesn't care if you hit your knee with a cushion or a hammer, you do. No one said ideas doesn't have a place. Everything does. Ideas are a function of the mind and all they are is thought. Thoughts have no function to consciousness only for the human to rack up ideas about consciousness, reality and the universe. A mute doesn't need ideas. A person living outside their head and not living by thought alone, doesn't need ideas. Not hitting your knee with a hammer and using a cushion instead is not an idea, it's an instinctual move learnt by the body/mind complex for survival purposes and doesn't care about your ideas.

[Breakingthewall]

11 hours ago, The Chosen One said:

Very curious what responses will be given but in reality we have 3 states of consciousness

It's only one reality, the now, and in the now many appearances arise. If there is no appearance, like if you take propofol, or you die, existence still exist, just your brain stop, not mine. It's very difficult to see beyond the self

[Sugarcoat]

I agree I think we might be in a hopeless situation maybe it’s impossible to get rid of the self because there’s nobody already and nobody do to anything. Some non dualists allude to this. At least for me I feel this self is kind of maintaining itself without my own will if that makes sense. How could you undo something you’re not even doing yourself? I can’t help but to feel I exist , can’t imagine anything beyond that, how could one undo that sense of I am? What would that even be? Like nothing at all, as you allude to

[Princess Arabia]

8 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I agree I think we might be in a hopeless situation maybe it’s impossible to get rid of the self because there’s nobody already and nobody do to anything. Some non dualists allude to this. At least for me I feel this self is kind of maintaining itself without my own will if that makes sense. How could you undo something you’re not even doing yourself? I can’t help but to feel I exist , can’t imagine anything beyond that, how could one undo that sense of I am? What would that even be? Like nothing at all, as you allude to

It's not about getting rid of. Like you said, how can something that isn't there be gotten rid of. The I is trying to get rid of the I. It's like trying to get rid of a rainbow. The rainbow isn't really there, only appears to be. You cannot grab a hold of a rainbow. The water vapor and the sun's rays or whatever makes up the appearance of a rainbow will have to be gone for the rainbow to disappear. Likewise, whatever made the I appear will also have to disappear for the I to not appear anymore. There's no one to get rid of the I. It is only an appearance just like how the rainbow is simply an appearance. 

Edited Wednesday at 02:16 PM by Princess Arabia

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

It's not about getting rid of. Like you said, how can something that isn't there be gotten rid of. The I is trying to get rid of the I. It's like trying to get rid of a rainbow. The rainbow isn't really there, only appears to be. The water vapor and the sun's rays or whatever makes up the appearance if a rainbow will have to be gone for the rainbow to disappear. Likewise, whatever made the I appear will also have to disappear for the I to not appear anymore. There's no one to get rid of the I. It is only an appearance just like how the rainbow is simply an appearance. 

I see. Then the question would be what is it that made the I appear that would have to disappear? Or maybe the I is an independent appearance/illusion that can go away on its own

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I see. Then the question would be what is it that made the I appear that would have to disappear? Or maybe the I is an independent appearance/illusion that can go away on its own

It goes away on it's own. That's probably where some disappearing I's are - in the mental ward. Not realizing that it never was. Something to that extent. Babies and toddlers don't have a sense of I. The only thing enlightenment does is for the recognition that there was no I to begin with.

Edited Wednesday at 02:20 PM by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

29 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

 

26 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I agree I think we might be in a hopeless situation maybe it’s impossible to get rid of the self because there’s nobody already and nobody do to anything. Some non dualists allude to this. At least for me I feel this self is kind of maintaining itself without my own will if that makes sense. How could you undo something you’re not even doing yourself? I can’t help but to feel I exist , can’t imagine anything beyond that, how could one undo that sense of I am? What would that even be? Like nothing at all, as you allude to

It's impossible. What is possible is that your concrete structure dissapear, the memory and the perception as a human. There are infinite structures and all of them are a reflection of the absolute. The thing is that the absolute is not an experience, the experience happens in the absolute. It's a very difficult to realize because the self is created by the experience and is the self who wants to realize. 

Edited Wednesday at 02:34 PM by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

It goes away on its own. That's probably where some disappearing I's are - in the mental ward. Not realizing that it never was. Something to that extent. Babies and toddlers don't have a sense of I. The only thing enlightenment does is for the recognition that there was no I to begin with.

I see. 

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

It goes away on it's own. That's probably where some disappearing I's are - in the mental ward. Not realizing that it never was. Something to that extent. Babies and toddlers don't have a sense of I. The only thing enlightenment does is for the recognition that there was no I to begin with.

The self exist as a relative appearance, it's the same than saying that pain doesn't exist. It exists relatively. Saying that one thing is real and another false is not a good pointer, it's much closer saying that one thing is absolute and another relative. What is absolute can't dissapear, what is relative yes. 

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Saying that one thing is real and another false is not a good pointer,

Where did I say this. Please quote in hypotheses verbatim.

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Who do you think you are. Really real? Can be awake? The whole Universe is awake, alive and kicking. 

You are understanding the Universe as a collective thing and that is not the case now, not yet.

Right now the Creation is separated, that is what a Creation is. Without duality you could not have a reality in the first place.

In this fragmentation of Infinity, there are different points which are more activated than others.

Edited Wednesday at 02:55 PM by Javfly33

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

You are understanding the Universe as a collective thing and that is not totally right now.

Right now the Creation is separated, that is what a Creation is. Without duality you could not have a reality in the first place.

So no, not all beings are Awake or are at the same stage of Evolution. 

That's only in appearance. I'm not on the street talking about apple trees and birds and the bar across the street where I'll be saying things in a relativistic manner. I'm on a spiritual forum where the topic is about no-self and God. It's appropriate to suggests the oneness of it all in this context. 

Leo, in this same thread, mentioned how reality is imaginary. Why didn't you say to him then why are you concerned with imaginary politics. You guys only have your rebuttals with the ordinary person. When the gurus say it, it's accepted. Shows the human bias, and how you express your own sovereignty and authorities. You say who says what to you and you listen to who you chose. The signs are everywhere if you know how to spot them.

Edited Wednesday at 03:03 PM by Princess Arabia

[Sugarcoat]

42 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

It's impossible. What is possible is that your concrete structure dissapear, the memory and the perception as a human. There are infinite structures and all of them are a reflection of the absolute. The thing is that the absolute is not an experience, the experience happens in the absolute. It's a very difficult to realize because the self is created by the experience and is the self who wants to realize. 

Impossible for the self to fall away?

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Impossible for the self to fall away?

55 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

 

Impossible for existence ceasing to exist, but existence is not an experience, experiences happen in existence. Any experience is relative, needs two things, time, perception. We as a self are an experience that is happening, a reflection of existence. The material of what experience is made is existence, and that's what we are , the material, not the experience, then you and another are the same, because the substance is the same. You are the substance, not the conciousness or perception. Perception is something that is happening, is relative to another thing. Perception or conciousness is made of existence, like everything else.

33 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Where did I say this. Please quote in hypotheses verbatim.

You said that you don't exist. That's the same that you are not real right?

Edited Wednesday at 03:15 PM by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Impossible for existence ceasing to exist, but existence is not an experience, experiences happen in existence. Any experience is relative, needs two things, time, perception. We as a self are an experience that is happening, a reflection of existence. The material of what experience is made is existence, and that's what we are , the material, not the experience, then you and another are the same, because the substance is the same. You are the substance, not the conciousness or perception. Perception is something that is happening, is relative to another thing. Perception or conciousness is made of existence, like everything else.

So the experience of self can fall away? And only existence remains, even if there already is only existence

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

So the experience of self can fall away? And only existence remains, even if there already is only existence

More than fall away gets like transparent, then the sense of self gets weaker and you realize that what you really are is the substance of the reality. It's not a "you" because is nothing definite, but it's what you are. 

[Sugarcoat]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

More than fall away gets like transparent, then the sense of self gets weaker and you realize that what you really are is the substance of the reality. It's not a "you" because is nothing definite, but it's what you are. 

Ok I see

[Breakingthewall]

45 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Ok I see

It's not that the self is not real, is that it isn't what you ultimately are. It's like saying that being a worker isn't real because you are a human. It's real, but it's just an aspect of what an human can be. But realizing existence is not so easy because it's absolute, then it can't be contrasted with anything else. To realize it you have to remove all the identifications, and for me the the way is in two senses, emotional, that means open yourself, overcome the fear totally, and mental, understanding what infinity means, how in absence of limits anything can't have any meaning. God is impossible, because it's a limit, it's the big boss who decide what's happening. It's just an identification, the ego can't live with them

Edited Wednesday at 04:14 PM by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

24 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's not that the self is not real, is that it isn't what you ultimately are. It's like saying that being a worker isn't real because you are a human. It's real, but it's just an aspect of what an human can be. But realizing existence is not so easy because it's absolute, then it can't be contrasted with anything else. To realize it you have to remove all the identifications, and for me the the way is in two senses, emotional, that means open yourself, overcome the fear totally, and mental, understanding what infinity means, how in absence of limits anything can't have any meaning. God is impossible, because it's a limit, it's the big boss who decide what's happening. It's just an identification, the ego can't live with them

Okay I think I can understand what you’re saying tnx

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

You said that you don't exist. That's the same that you are not real right?

The same you explained it to Sugarcoat is what I mean. Of course, I exist. I think these pronouns and implications and what we mean exactly by no one, etc gets misconstrued. The human that i think I am, is not what I really am.