No Self and God

[The Chosen One]

I have been wondering about this question for 2 years now but have not found anyone to answer it. Very curious what responses will be given but in reality we have 3 states of consciousness, waking, dreaming, and deep sleep. In the deep sleep state, there is no "I AM" with no pain, no suffering, and no pleasure. When we are talking about awakening or higher levels of consciousness there is something called "nirvana" or No Self the state of no "I AM". Leo has talked about this No Self state in a few of his videos and so has Frank Yang and other spiritual teachers. So my big question is what is the difference between nirvana or "No Self" versus deep sleep because to me they seem like the same exact thing. I don't experience any "I AM" at all in deep sleep.

Also If this human self that I identify with is just an illusion and my ego, desires, and basises are all just an illusion, who is the one trying to wake up if it's not even real? It's not anything that I would identify with because that would be my ego so what is it and how would any awaking be possible at all if there really is No Self?

[VeganAwake]

There isn't an "I" already, in which could identify as the human self or ego. 

There isn't a true self or a higher self period.....that's the illusion.....that's the misunderstanding or cosmic joke!

Nirvana, samadhi, no self, enlightenment, liberation are all words pointing to this same recognition!

It isn't a better state for anyone because it's literally the revelation that there never was a someone and there never was a better state. 

It's the end of states or separation but for nobody 😬

❤️ 

Edited October 30 by VeganAwake

[Leo Gura]

The point is to become so conscious that you realize that sleep is imaginary.

You are trying to realize the imaginary nature of reality. Any way you frame reality will be imaginary.

Edited October 30 by Leo Gura

[Greatnestwithin]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The point is to become so conscious that you realize that sleep is imaginary.

You are trying to realize the imaginary nature of reality. Any way you frame reality will be imaginary.

@Leo Gura in my first experience with bufo, I realized that breathing is imaginary and that my nature doesn't actually need air to exist. What a crazy insight!!!

[PurpleTree]

That‘s a good question.

But unfortunately i can’t help you really.

 

[PurpleTree]

6 hours ago, The Chosen One said:

Also If this human self that I identify with is just an illusion and my ego, desires, and basises are all just an illusion, who is the one trying to wake up if it's not even real? It's not anything that I would identify with because that would be my ego so what is it and how would any awaking be possible at all if there really is No Self?

Seemingly nothing is waking up to itself. Some would call it consciousness some would call it energy, although consciousness also kind of implies that there is something to know or be conscious of. Some would call it reality waking up to itself. But i don’t know.

Do you watch non-duality talks?

[Davino]

9 hours ago, The Chosen One said:

in reality we have 3 states of consciousness, waking, dreaming, and deep sleep

False

There are infinite states of consciousness there is no limit

There are states of consciousness within states of consciousness

 In the same way there are sex positions within sex

All categories and distinctions are created within your mind and you decide to draw lines in a universal continuum of ever self-transforming consciousness to make sense of it

9 hours ago, The Chosen One said:

In the deep sleep state, there is no "I AM" with no pain, no suffering, and no pleasure. When we are talking about awakening or higher levels of consciousness there is something called "nirvana" or No Self the state of no "I AM". Leo has talked about this No Self state in a few of his videos and so has Frank Yang and other spiritual teachers. So my big question is what is the difference between nirvana or "No Self" versus deep sleep because to me they seem like the same exact thing. I don't experience any "I AM" at all in deep sleep.

So I'll be anwering you from within their own framework, so you can get what they are saying and hopefully I'll make you go meta afterwards. Deal?

Quote

 

The difference between nirvana and deep sleep is consciousness. There is no need for a personal separate "I" to have consciousness. As a matter of fact, consciousness is aware of the "I" as well as it is of the room you are in, all the sounds, feelings, sensations, memory, you name it!

So Nirvana would be consciousness without the separate I, meaning you have no self and therefore you become all possible selfs, your sense of I expands to Absolute Infinity. In this sense, infinity has no I because it is simultaneosly all Is. To be everything you have to be nothing.

In deep sleep there is no I but there is no awareness either so. It's like being in an infinite room but lights are off.

Nirvana is being an Infinity Room shinning with the brilliance of a Big Bang

Does this make sense?

 

What is my understanding. Sleep doesn't exist. It's a construction of your mind. As a matter of fact you have never experienced sleep, never, how would you then assume that sleep exists???

What is it truly happening in your experience. Really analyze and see

This you will discover

Consciousness is ever-present and continuous

You enter in your bed, you slowly enter into relaxation and suddendly boom

There is a change in the scenario, sensations in your body are different, it feels like there was an expansion of time and duration

Like reloading a videogame from a saved screen

It is exactly like this. However as you operate from a materialist paradigm, this seems outrageous right?

The universe exists independently from my mind, from my experience. Surely it does!

Nope

It does not

And you won't ever be able to prove it or experience it otherwise

Your experience is all there is, for eternity, for infinity.

Why?

It's the ultimate most genius design reality could ever be

Breathtaking efficient and jaw dropping intelligent

9 hours ago, The Chosen One said:

Also If this human self that I identify with is just an illusion and my ego, desires, and basises are all just an illusion, who is the one trying to wake up if it's not even real?

Oh yes, this is a classic paradox you'll encounter in the path

What usuaslly happens is that you need to exhaust the seeker. You'll have to go through decades of hard work till the seeker dissolves. It's a central part of the awakening mechanics. As Ramana put it, you have to use one thorn to take out another thorn, you have to use a stick to move the wood burning in the fire and finally that stick is thrown into the fire and all is CONSUMED

It is so

9 hours ago, The Chosen One said:

It's not anything that I would identify with because that would be my ego so what is it and how would any awakening be possible at all if there really is No Self?

At this point, you would awaken to strange loops. Your mind becomes sooo trans-human that it breaks free from lineal rational thinking. It becomes able to cognise self causing motions. The reason for something to be, is... well: ITSELF

Ultimately, you would realize the TRUE nature of CONSCIOUSNESS 

Mind would shatter into infinite fractals, paradoxically looping and eating into each other in a cosmic dance, all points connected in an Infinite self expansive-collapsive unitary Awareness Field.

Infinities on Infinities

ABSOLUTE INFINITY

OH MY GOD

Edited October 30 by Davino

[Princess Arabia]

You are already awake. The ego, I, illusions, dream etc are all within the scope of the imaginary. Consciousness is all there is and it is exploring itself, this exploration is Mind. There is no you doing anything on your own in the Absolute sense. Consciousness is doing you and is imagining you as human that has an identity with thoughts, emotions etc. The I that wants to awaken is the illusion. Nothing else is. Everything is really happening. No one needs to awaken because there's no one to awaken. It's consciousness's activity of the mind that's doing that. It is also what's asking the questions and what's answering. It's all one eternal motion happening in the now. The senses perceive it linearly because that's how we make sense of reality. Thoughts is what allows for time and space to be. When we sleep that disappears. There's no mind. When we awaken time and space appears and the mind's activity emerges. Dreams are dreams within a dream. 

So, it's all real and unreal simultaneously. There's really no one to say awaken or get enlightened or not because that's all still an activity consciousness is doing. There's no you to stop that activity. That's death. Which is also imaginary. It's all imaginary. 

 

Edited October 30 by Princess Arabia

[Atb210201]

They are different.

There is a you in high states of consciousness and you experience everything as yourself in that state.

It's not like deep sleep; if you were able to stay awake and aware in your deep sleep then they would be the same.

[Davino]

38 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You are already awake. The ego, I, illusions, dream etc are all within the scope of the imaginary. Consciousness is all there is and it is exploring itself, this exploration is Mind. There is no you doing anything on your own in the Absolute sense. Consciousness is doing you and is imagining you as human that has an identity with thoughts, emotions etc. The I that wants to awaken is the illusion. Nothing else is. Everything is really happening. No one needs to awaken because there's no one to awaken.

This is true

Yet it's horrible advice for the spiritual stage the user finds itself in

Imagine your mother came and ask you oh I want to enter into spirituality, I really feel a calling but I'm a bit confused

And you say to her

Don't you worry!!!

You're already Awake

There's really no one to awaken or get enlightened or not because that's all still an activity consciousness is doing.

See?

Horrible advice

It's a lack of assessment on the spiritual level. You are saying the truth, yet that truth won't lead him to the realization you're expressing.

Only after insane work, you get to the realization of, Oh Consciousness is always already Awake

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

You are already awake. The ego, I, illusions, dream etc are all within the scope of the imaginary. Consciousness is all there is and it is exploring itself, this exploration is Mind. 

 

Oh my God...the audacity...

No you are not Awake nor the OP is Awake nor anyone in this topic discussion including me. 

Edited October 30 by Javfly33

[Davino]

@Javfly33 Who do you consider Awake?

[Princess Arabia]

28 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Oh my God...the audacity...

No you are not Awake nor the OP is Awake nor anyone in this topic discussion including me. 

Doesn't matter what you or I think. Calling it an audacity is you being closed minded and not open to possibilities. You think you know anything? You don't. Neither do I. My posts aren't trying to sway anybody from anything into anything, they are simply expressions of the One. If you were so-called awake, you would recognize that. Nothing in my post will harm anyone. What are they going to do. Go around saying consciousness is dreaming and reality is a mind's activity so let me go jump off a cliff. 

One cannot awaken if they're not already awake. It's impossible. You're the audacious one thinking you have the power alone to awake yourself. You are the audacious one thinking you're special and that you're the almighty omnipotent and lord almighty to think you can magically do something to change what is already the case. You're the audacious one to think you're separate from reality and that you as a silly, spoilt, demanding, corrupted, temper-tantrumming walking zombie thinking it is some special human being with a life that came into this world and can make itself turn into something marvelous and special and stopping it's suffering and delusions by creating some magical enlightenment process to make itself stop shitting and pissing and eating junk poison and stopping itself from being the neurotic inflamed brain that you are. You will end up in the dusted grave and your bones will rot just like everyone else's and you body will stop functioning and give back to the earth all the elements from which it came. That's the audacity of the human species.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

This is true

Yet it's horrible advice for the spiritual stage the user finds itself in

Imagine your mother came and ask you oh I want to enter into spirituality, I really feel a calling but I'm a bit confused

And you say to her

Don't you worry!!!

You're already Awake

There's really no one to awaken or get enlightened or not because that's all still an activity consciousness is doing.

See?

Horrible advice

It's a lack of assessment on the spiritual level. You are saying the truth, yet that truth won't lead him to the realization you're expressing.

Only after insane work, you get to the realization of, Oh Consciousness is always already Awake

Whatever you say.

[Davino]

6 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Whatever you say.

I said you were saying the truth

But that the truth wasn't delivered in a useful way, in a way that would benefit a beginner

[Javfly33]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

 

 

39 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Javfly33 Who do you consider Awake?

Only Consciousness or what is really real can be Awake.

I dont think the term "Awake" is a correct one.

 

Because It implies a quality on something. So inevitably we end Up using "Awake" as a quality or trophy the ego has, and we dont want to fall into that trap.

I would say Consciousness goes through a process of activating or being itself more intensely (similarly to the spectrum of states of consciousness, but I dont like the term state either because again It ends Up being used as a quality a Mind, body or ego can have).

So at whatever the point of activation or being consciousness is in your experience, thats the point where is It.

So is a spectrum, a Road or an Evolution from unconsciouness to consciousness, from delusion to Truth, from darkness to light. 

Is not an absolute of "non-awake/Awake" rather a representation of a certain level of consciousness or Evolution:

An ant is a certain representation of consciousness, a human is a certain representation of consciousness more advanced, etc...

And of course within humans there are miles of differences, but i would never say a human is Awake. A human is always a representation or something consciousness is creating at a certain level of development

 

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Davino said:

I said you were saying the truth

But that the truth wasn't delivered in a useful way, in a way that would benefit a beginner

That's your opinion. If you want to manipulate the truth into how you think it should be expressed, heard or delivered, go right ahead. Truth is truth and it doesn't care about our human interpretations of it and how it wants to express itself and how it's delivered. If it's the truth, then it's the truth. It has no opposites and doesn't need to be babysat and pampered with expressions of endearment. 

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I would say

 

6 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

but I dont like the term state eithe

 

6 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

but i would never say a human is Awake.

This is audacity. Universe doesn't care about what terms you like, what you say about it or what you would say. All that you posted are just ideas about what the mind thinks about reality. Has no power, has no substance and makes no difference. What is, is.

[Javfly33]

4 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

 

 

This is audacity. Universe doesn't care about what terms you like, what you say about it or what you would say. All that you posted are just ideas about what the mind thinks about reality. Has no power, has no substance and makes no difference. What is, is.

If ideas do not Matter go hit your knee with a hammer and then with a cushion. It should feel the same.

Ideas are relative but can be more or less aligned with the mechanics of Reality.

Which is why if you lose your Mind and become insane you could lose the ability of having the idea that is wiser to hit your knee with a cushion that with a hammer.

So the Mind and ideas have their place, they are a limited creation of Consciousness.

As long as you are in any limited state of consciousness ideas have their utility. 

Edited October 30 by Javfly33

[Princess Arabia]

26 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Only Consciousness or what is really real can be Awake.

Who do you think you are. Really real? Can be awake? The whole Universe is awake, alive and kicking. Don't know about you, but I AM THE UNIVERSE AND THE UNIVERSE IS ME. That equates to me being awake, alive and kicking. Don't know about you, but I'm not a human, nor am I a person. I go about life masquerading as that, yes, but my true identity is that which is Aware of the human along with everything else. You be what you want to say you are. I'll continue to be what I am in this human form.

Edited October 30 by Princess Arabia