What should be done about LGBT restrooms?

[Nemra]

@Yimpa, having long hair isn't considered something that a man should have where I'm from. A lot of men are disgusted or get nervous by that. Few of them wanted to harass me.

My clothing style isn't typical in my culture.

People think I'm either Russian or European. Lol.

Gender isn't even a thing where I'm from!

If they accept it, they would have to admit that a lot of the things about "sexes" are social constructions, which is the very thing that they are afraid of.

[Nemra]

12 minutes ago, mojsterr said:

Because we don't share them at the same time.

And even if some do, it's because they are family and you know and trust them.

There's awareness that others are part of the household.

Although my example is limited, for the reason you gave and also because, in reality, family members can't or don't accept each other completely for different reasons.

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

Enough of the mind games and debates. I’m putting this to the test in real life. 

As someone who is traditionally labeled as male by government standards (at least where I live), I will experiment using the woman public restroom this weekend.

I’ve actually done this last Sunday without issue, but it was one of those restrooms that only allow one person in at a time. This time, I will use the ones that allow multiple women in, and I will do this at multiple locations throughout the weekend.

I predict nothing wrong will happen, but there’s only one way to find out. It also helps that I’ll have my queer partner with me to support me. In any case, I will report my results next Sunday.

If you have a penis you should go to men restrooms for your comfort, otherwise you will be forced to sit down etc just for pee.

I also think that it allows women to have a "safe space", not to being put in contact with people who have a male physical constitution (taller, stronger) in a context where they are more isolated and eventually partially denuded. 

[zurew]

13 hours ago, Thought Art said:

We underestimate the damage the DSM and other documents have done to humanity. We used Lobotomize people back in the day. 

That was only like 60 years ago we lobotomized people. Our institutions use the DSM as a manual. When you understand the epistemology of this, and how fucking stupid this is, you will not trust another PhD or psychologist in your life. 

Not a good argument.

Essentially you are saying - "Scientist was wrong back then, therefore don't ever use the heruistic of trusting experts ever again". We could apply the same kind of reasoning to hard science as well. (like would you use that for physics as well?) . Also, whats the argument for thinking anyone (including you) has a better grasp on a given problem compared to experts? Thats the question that needs to be answered first before we trash the conensus that experts have on a given topic. Like do we think that normies have a better track-record of getting things right in any given area? Of course not, and its not just not getting things right, but the usage of trash reasoning to end up with certain conclusions.

Generally speaking people on this topic know fuck all about anything. Most people arent even aware 1% of the research on the topic, and even if they are aware of some research, they have no clue how to properly contextualize it, cause they lack the knowledge and the necessary skills to do so.

 

Its not just that people generally don't have any fleshed out ethics on this topic, its that they have 0 clue about the empirical research and they have 0 clue how to make sense of that research.

[Adrian colby]

14 hours ago, Thought Art said:

We underestimate the damage the DSM and other documents have done to humanity. We used Lobotomize people back in the day. Now some people want to normalize giving surgery to kids. This is stupidity. 
 

That was only like 60 years ago we lobotomized people. Our institutions use the DSM as a manual. When you understand the epistemology of this, and how fucking stupid this is, you will not trust another PhD or psychologist in your life. 
 

Don’t let cultural zeitgeist and sickness disguised as equality fool you. 
 

So, when people are saying there are 2 genders that are biological, this need not be punished. 

DSM doesn’t have all the answers and only attempts to distinguish symptoms ( mistaking it for the cause) that might not be the result of an illness. It wasn’t that long ago that the board that governs what is included, decided to reclassify homosexuality and like that overnight, they cured millions of people of a mental illness (it was never such in the first place)

gender dysphoria is a symptom of ‘something’ but that is not all the result of one thing. There are many causes to dysphoria including biological misalignment, cultural pressures or psychological instability. It’s not black and white.  Depending on what the cause is and the severity of the dysphoria, sometimes surgery is the best course of action. I’ve heard this same argument about ‘sick doctors’ performing surgery on children ( specific cases causing an uproar in a community) so I contact the clinic in question only to find out that, like myself, the child was born with gonadal or genital disgenesis and the surgery is to aid in them having the ability to go to the toilet properly. There’s nothing nefarious behind it and I end up going back to the individuals who started the argument to go fucking educate themselves and get their heads out of the conspiracy theories that they often bolster their beliefs with. The other occurrences are when they use the word child and are referring to someone who has a long standing history of cross identification from an early age and is being treated in their teens.

there is a difference between rapid onset gender dysphoria and historical gender dysphoria. The first is where we find most of the detransitioners and this is most likely caused by social conformity pressures like being unable to meet the stereotypical expectation of a gender role so they reject it altogether during a time they are coming to terms with puberty. The second is persistent cross identification and usually starts age 3-5years. These are genuine cases understood to have a neurological basis to it and often dismissed as mentally ill by people who don’t know the difference and attach the detransitioner case to all cases( fallacy of generalisation).

those of us diagnosed decades ago were not exposed to internet, did not have cultural normalisation of the condition nor were the doctors even aware of it. We were not ‘influenced’ and the research that’s been done into it has shown misalignment between neurology and rest of body and genetics that are specific to the opposite sex.  The neurology is perfectly normal and healthy so it’s a variation/ mutation, not an illness. The only problem with it is hormonal imbalance. Anyone… gender/sexual disorder or not, who has a hormonal imbalance or lacks the hormone that is required by those receptors gets symptoms that are associated with receptor starvation ( mood regulation difficulty, cognitive function etc). Think of the mood regulation issues of women going through menopause. Think of mood regulation of men going through andropause. A man with gonadal disgenesis who’s not producing enough testosterone for his brain to manage balanced functionality, all resulting is varying degrees of dysphoria( not gender related). And then you have individuals like myself who are neurologically misaligned and not getting the correct level of sex specific hormone resulting in… you guessed it, ‘dysphoria’. Not a mental illness. Having surgery is an attempt to confirm to societal norms, to fit in and experience normal relationship although more recently there are individuals refusing to be something to simply satisfy their cultures definitions( which are not a reflection of their biological reality) . The surgery doesn’t define them.  what defines them in terms of sex and social gender is their neurology which was already there in the first place. There’s nothing sick about that. Believing that it is sick, is a lacking in deeper understanding for what it is and an attempt to dismiss its existence without any consideration or contemplation. It feeds into an already deep seated bias about the way the world ‘should’ be stemming from what is usually cultural conditioning. 
 

im not in any way dismissing the other occurrences including individuals who are genuinely mentally ill, trauma based response, neurodivergent or odd mutation. They all occur, some more prevalent than others and some so bizarre you’d pinch yourself that it actually occurs. but it is a huge mistake to assume that it is just all one way. Reality is ‘all’ ways that come and go. Some persist and some don’t. 
 

the 50+ social genders are merely a way in which people are expressing their individuality and labelling it to justify their difference. This will only persist for a time and then calm down. It’s the moving of a culture into construct awareness but attaching to the new constructs. Eventually through their development they will understand constructs are all still limitations and are fluid if what doesn’t serve one person or resonates with them can and should be let go so as not to thwart their potential. 

 

[Adrian colby]

@Schizophonia and what if my penis was removed because of cancer? Am I no longer a male or no longer a man? Can I not perform my social role without it? and what if I was a female at birth who naturally developed a penis in their teens? ( yes it happens! There are populations in new Guinea where this happens and it’s common enough that it is considered normal to give birth to a girl and have it spontaneously turn into a boy) natural sex change in a human. 

this comes down to the same thing over and over again. Trying to pigeonhole reality into man made constructs to force the infinite diversity of the universes exploration of consciousness to become a limited sameness. It is already that at its core or source ( awareness) so why would it do that when it expands into infinite consciousness? 
 

 

[Beans]

I don’t care about the gender of who’s using the bathroom

just keep it clean. 

[Schizophonia]

6 minutes ago, Adrian colby said:

@Schizophonia and what if my penis was removed because of cancer? Am I no longer a male or no longer a man? Can I not perform my social role without it? and what if I was a female at birth who naturally developed a penis in their teens? ( yes it happens! There are populations in new Guinea where this happens and it’s common enough that it is considered normal to give birth to a girl and have it spontaneously turn into a boy) natural sex change in a human. 

this comes down to the same thing over and over again. Trying to pigeonhole reality into man made constructs to force the infinite diversity of the universes exploration of consciousness to become a limited sameness. It is already that at its core or source ( awareness) so why would it do that when it expands into infinite consciousness? 
 

 

There are sitting toilet in men , in all case you don't want afraid women by going in their toilets ; My second points was in fine more important that the first one.

+ Use joe dispenza to generate a new phallus 🤔

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

If you have a penis you should go to men restrooms for your comfort, otherwise you will be forced to sit down etc just for pee.

Ever since I was a kid I was always more comfortable sitting, rather than standing. It wasn’t until I was socially conditioned that I started standing to pee sometimes.

I still sit most of the time.

[Buck Edwards]

I think you should also consider the safety of people who belong to the LGBT community. They might not feel safe entering either restroom because they often get physically assaulted by people who don't like them or bear a strong hatred towards their community. Think about that for a second. So maybe the LGBT community folks need their own separate restrooms for the sake of their safety. 

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

I also think that it allows women to have a "safe space", not to being put in contact with people who have a male physical constitution (taller, stronger) in a context where they are more isolated and eventually partially denuded

I was always bullied since I was a kid for being weak and skinny. It wasn’t until I was socially conditioned to be a man and go to the gym that I started to be perceived a bit stronger, but I ultimately hated and regretted myself for not listening to myself and instead appeasing what others wanted me to be.

[Yimpa]

Just got off the phone with my mother sharing what I planned to do. She told me she was afraid for me and thought that I was going to rape someone.

I felt abandoned and angry and we both hung up the phone.

This is the predicament we are in, folks. 

[Nemra]

@Yimpa, keeping secrets is important.

[Yimpa]

33 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Yimpa, keeping secrets is important.

I’d rather my mother not see me as a rapist. In any case, we will probably go to family therapy one day to unravel this in private 

 

Edited November 1 by Yimpa

[Buck Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I’d rather my mother not see me as a rapist. In any case, we will probably go to family therapy one day to unravel this in private 

You're going for some interesting adventure lol 

[Yimpa]

Woohoo, my mother and I agreed that we will both process this with my gay therapist next week!!

I’ve also made a grave mistake by misinterpreting that my mother thinks that I am a criminal. I was wrong. She explained that she was afraid that other people would think I was, and that would put me in danger. I assured her that I will do this no matter what happens.

I will not sit in the back of the bus if I’m forced to. I will not dress the way you want me to. Not even the trans community can tell me how to act.

I want to unite all perspectives.

Edited November 1 by Yimpa

[Nemra]

@Yimpa, I'm happy for you.

Keeping secrets of such things has saved my life, although it comes with a cost.

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

I was always bullied since I was a kid for being weak and skinny. It wasn’t until I was socially conditioned to be a man and go to the gym that I started to be perceived a bit stronger, but I ultimately hated and regretted myself for not listening to myself and instead appeasing what others wanted me to be.

Being skinny and sensitive don't make you less masculine, there are also woman who are physically strong, fleshy, with a strong character.

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Ever since I was a kid I was always more comfortable sitting, rather than standing. It wasn’t until I was socially conditioned that I started standing to pee sometimes.

I still sit most of the time.

Ditto, we just pee standing up out of laziness lol

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Just got off the phone with my mother sharing what I planned to do. She told me she was afraid for me and thought that I was going to rape someone.

I felt abandoned and angry and we both hung up the phone.

This is the predicament we are in, folks. 

I only wish you the best, and even if i'm conservative i'am above all a a liberal so I don't claim to be able to interfere in the lives of people who claim to be LGBT.

But here's the thing, I have absolutely never met a transgender person who did not suffer from psychosis and/or a strange relationship with their parents.

I'm just putting this here

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

Woohoo, my mother and I agreed that we will both process this with my gay therapist next week!!

I’ve also made a grave mistake by misinterpreting that my mother thinks that I am a criminal. I was wrong. She explained that she was afraid that other people would think I was, and that would put me in danger. I assured her that I will do this no matter what happens.

I will not sit in the back of the bus if I’m forced to. I will not dress the way you want me to. Not even the trans community can tell me how to act.

I want to unite all perspectives.

👍

[Yimpa]

The question to end all questions:

Which restroom does God use?

[Buck Edwards]

@Spiritual Warfare Maybe you are looking for validation of your own opinion. I don't know.. I see lots of people come and go on the forum everyday. Different kinds. Most don't persist for very long here. They stay around a month and get bored and walk away. They assume they own the forum. Or they own people's opinions. It's very odd and sometimes amusing to watch that. It doesn't go down well. They end up getting warning points for being too conservative or too attached to their unconscious opinions. It feels like they think the world revolves around their fingers. They have a preoccupation and with wanting to impose their worldview on to others. The world has to be their way or no way. It's as if they are policing the world without ever being assigned such a role or ever being put in such a position in the present or the future, I mean they aren't some political leader but they come here wearing a proverbial presidential hat of some sort. Then they get frustrated when people don't agree with them,which is a natural course of things,as it should be. But they are hell bent that the world accept their opinion or even change to their tunes, as though it would be a disaster or End Times coming if that didn't happen. It reeks of wanting and seeking control, a sort of prepubescent preoccupation with the workings of the world and the overarching need to control it. The world will always move organically in the direction it should, whether you like it or not. People will be assimilated, accommodated for one way or another. The real truth of the matter lies in realizing one's own helplesssness in wanting to change that which will come with time and maturity.