A great discovery or complete bs

[kray]

https://www.sciencealert.com/meditation-and-mindfulness-have-a-dark-side-we-dont-talk-about
 

Came across this article on the internet, not sure if it’s legit or note, but seems interesting. I’m not sure if this is an interesting study, or science’s sneaky way of de-validating meditation. Thoughts?

[theleelajoker]

Personal opinion: Bullshit.

1. Simple reason for this: I cannot imagine that just observing, being, breathing, feeling causes depression, anxiety etc. Simply does not make any sense for me
2. If you really get anxiety etc. after meditation, then rather because you had it before, suppressed it and now it's just coming up / you beginn to notice it. Yes, the article says "people without previous mental health problems" - but who's to judge that? I know countless people that say "I am fine". Those people certainly believe so and are honest about it from their POV. But it is very obvious in voice, eyes, body language, addictions, observed behavior etc that they are not fine. I am very skeptical re our current cultural definition of "mentally healthy"
3. You certainly can do it "wrong" - stress yourself about meditation, build expectations, blame yourself re discipline, overemphasize its use re self-improvement, playing intellectual games, attitude of non-acceptance etc.
4. I believe it's rather about what  a person (our western culture) makes of mediation: Money making, self improvement, harmful cultural programming, incompetent teachers.  Yeah, I know the article says that buddhists already discussed many years ago. Re this, see points No 1.-3. that IMO apply not only today but any time
5. Which paper gets more attention? One paper saying "meditation is bad" or the 10.000st article saying "meditation is good?"

 

Curios if someone has a completely different opinion - I'm open for arguments against my above position

Edited October 29 by theleelajoker

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

1 hour ago, kray said:

https://www.sciencealert.com/meditation-and-mindfulness-have-a-dark-side-we-dont-talk-about
 

Came across this article on the internet, not sure if it’s legit or note, but seems interesting. I’m not sure if this is an interesting study, or science’s sneaky way of de-validating meditation. Thoughts?

The dark night of the soul is real.

[Princess Arabia]

I've seen this before. Not sure if it's from the same article but something similar. I really don't have any strong opinions on it either way. I like to observe before forming strong opinions on stuff. However, I've heard on this forum where people have asked about their panic attacks during or after meditation. I've seen where people have had adverse effects from it. Saying I've seen where it has benefits, would be like saying water is good for you and has benefits but neglect to say that too much can also be harmful. So just giving the benefits of meditation is not really addressing the issue at hand. Saying to not meditate because it has shown to have negative effects, is also like saying don't drink water.

So, approaching it from the mindset of "proceed with caution" and to inquire into the different types, why you're doing it and maybe how much you're doing is probably the best approach.

Maybe the bad effects are there because, one is using thought to silence thought. If we really investigate what we really are in the sense that the egoic structure is just a thought anyway, it would be like suffocating yourself but not on the biological or physical sense, but on the mental level. It's all mental anyway so I could see how this could be possible. Observing the breath is not the same as just breathing.

It's like the natural process of the body interfering with another process. Breathing is a natural process and the appearance of thoughts another. What are we using to observe the breath, thoughts. So, it's like thoughts trying to control thoughts. Sounds like a battle to me. You would have to really sink deep with this one because it's not obvious. If the body naturally goes into a meditative state on it's own then that's not the same as putting it there. It's the same as trying to Jumpstart a car. The car was dead and needed to be shocked back into it's normal state. Also, trying to shock someone that's dying back to life using those medical devices. 

So, meditation falls into this category by shocking the normal functions of the body that's already alive and kicking by stopping the natural process and attacking itself. Thoughts produce feelings and feelings produce emotions. If we're trying to force a feeling(serenity, peace etc) by observing thoughts, then that's like saying to the body I want you to feel this way but without the thought process which allows for that feeling. Observing thoughts in this respect, is like one thought battling the other for it's territory. That's my take and I'm not advocating for one to not meditate but to proceed with caution and to also choose the type of meditation that's more suited for the systems of the body/mind coherence. Afterall Sadhguru did suffer a brain aneurism. Just saying. 

[Hojo]

People who meditate can enter the same states and psychedelics. Some people will try or succeed to kill themselves. Its very a existential topic.