Why Do Millions Still Stand By Trump Despite the Evidence?

[DocWatts]

13 hours ago, Lyubov said:

They don’t care. He speaks for their insecurities and fears and values, however contradictory they may be. Trump once said he could shoot someone and people would still follow him. It’s true. They don’t care, they care about their world view and Trump represents that. Trump’s personal issues they don’t care about. 

This ^.

From their point of view, Trump is stern father figure who's fighting to protect their way of life from encroachment by a host of perceived enemies who aren't deserving of equal treatment (immigrants, LGBTQ people, etc). 

It's a form of aggrieved entitlement, born of fears about a loss of social status. Read about the psychology of what was going through the heads of people defending white supremacy in the Confederacy and Jim Crow apartheid state that followed, and you won't be far off.

Edited October 27 by DocWatts

[Talinn]

<-- Parents are voting for Trump because of what they hear about Kamala v. Trump's stances on abortion

[MrTruf]

55 minutes ago, Joshe said:

The whole "chaos agent" cohort no longer has a leg to stand on. They did in 2016, but after Trump tried to overthrow the democratic will of the people to seize power for himself, it became obvious the chosen chaos agent is too chaotic to fuck around with. 

Just as good sense-making isn't in everyone's wheelhouse, neither is tact. That said, I would employ much more tact face to face than what I do on a forum discussing Trumpism. 

You left out the largest factor. Can you figure out where the majority of the negative emotions actually stem from? 

If you understood this point, you yourself would likely speak against Trumpism rather than attempt to make room for it. If you care about the world and care about people, you experience pain from Trumpism. People with a small circle of concern, or dare I say, lacking moral development, can only view it intellectually and that's why they don't get it. 

This critique seems black and white and reductionist. You're projecting black and white thinking onto others. For example, why would you assume others would call Bernie supporters high consciousness just because they voted for Bernie? Anyone using a single data point like "voted for Bernie" as marker of high consciousness would be a great example of bad thinking. 

Thank you for your response, even though it's exactly the same every time. You've perfected your opinion on this matter down to a T. As per usual with your communication, there's an important emotional element at play (verging on hysteria sometimes), especially when discussing "Trumpism" and its perceived effects on social fabric and the values you think everyone should hold. Lets be real, the concept of a "chaos agent" doesn’t imply full moral endorsement, rather, it reflects an attempt by some to reshape or at least push against a system they view as inherently resistant to reform. This isn’t unique to Trump. Obama and Bernie  also drew votes from those who felt disenfranchised. It's a valid sentiment, despite your judgments.

I understand that a chaotic influence in leadership can be seen as a danger rather than a solution. But this phenomenon also reveals a significant disconnect and sense of alienation felt by a large portion of the American public, which is worth examining rather than dismissing outright, especially in the way that's common to your types. I’m not willing to say that 80+ million people voting for Trump are simply a low-consciousness, morally deficient bunch. Ironically, that's just as much a "one data point" judgment as what you call "bad thinking"

You are so convinced of your position and denigrate others who "leave room" for other interpratations, that it's laughable if you knew how Reality works. Which you don't, despite your grandiose claims to the contrary.

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn’t bother responding, because it’s clear you’ll just rant the same way you’ve done for months. We get it.

[Buck Edwards]

28 minutes ago, MrTruf said:

Thank you for your response, even though it's exactly the same every time. You've perfected your opinion on this matter down to a T. As per usual with your communication, there's an important emotional element at play (verging on hysteria sometimes), especially when discussing "Trumpism" and its perceived effects on social fabric and the values you think everyone should hold. Lets be real, the concept of a "chaos agent" doesn’t imply full moral endorsement, rather, it reflects an attempt by some to reshape or at least push against a system they view as inherently resistant to reform. This isn’t unique to Trump. Obama and Bernie  also drew votes from those who felt disenfranchised. It's a valid sentiment, despite your judgments.

I understand that a chaotic influence in leadership can be seen as a danger rather than a solution. But this phenomenon also reveals a significant disconnect and sense of alienation felt by a large portion of the American public, which is worth examining rather than dismissing outright, especially in the way that's common to your types. I’m not willing to say that 80+ million people voting for Trump are simply a low-consciousness, morally deficient bunch. Ironically, that's just as much a "one data point" judgment as what you call "bad thinking"

You are so convinced of your position and denigrate others who "leave room" for other interpratations, that it's laughable if you knew how Reality works. Which you don't, despite your grandiose claims to the contrary.

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn’t bother responding, because it’s clear you’ll just rant the same way you’ve done for months. We get it.

What universal values do you think are fundamental to Trumpism? 

[MrTruf]

4 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

What universal values do you think are fundamental to Trumpism? 

I'm not saying that Trumpism embodies any universal values, nor did I ever imply that it does. If anything, it represents a backlash against the existing institutions or 'the system' and as some voters/supporters see it- a kind of last resort for people wanting to shake things up. That's not exactly the same as having universal values. At most, it reflects a tactical move rather than any deep, universal principles

Edited October 27 by MrTruf

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, MrTruf said:

I'm not saying that Trumpism embodies any universal values, nor did I ever imply that it does. If anything, it represents a backlash against the existing institutions or 'the system,' and as some voters/supporters see it- a kind of last resort for people wanting to shake things up. That's not exactly the same as having universal values. At most, it reflects a tactical move rather than any deep, universal principles

But tactical moves against what exactly? What is so wrong with the establishment for such a revolt, if i may ask? 

[MrTruf]

Just now, Buck Edwards said:

But tactical moves against what exactly? What is so wrong with the establishment for such a revolt, if i may ask? 

Ask a Trump voter, touch grass, and you'll find out 

[Princess Arabia]

I personally know a few Trump supporters. They're all white men with issues and think the illegals are taking away from them. They're all personally struggling in their lives in every aspect and believe it's others that caused them to be in the position they're in. So it seems they're voting for him to solve their problems of which Trump couldn't care less about. They all say too, to excuse his devilry, that he's human and they don't necessarily agree with who he is personally, but they love his policies. They all seem angry at the world and are easily agitated. They're the average blue collar worker that thinks life is unfair and they should be doing better because this is America and they are white. That part is just me saying. I just listen and ignore. 

From my comment, you can see what the devil can cater to and what it uses to sell. 

[zazen]

@Princess Arabia On point.

MAGA is more than just a man, though Trump set the fire for it. It's not about the contender but about the cause - Trump is just the cartoonish mascot cheerleading for that cause, regardless of his conduct and personal life. The same reason quite a few Pro-Palestinians were cheering on Hamas - non of them in their right mind would cheer for the death of civilians, but its not about them or their conduct, its the cause.

Trump articulated and gave voice to that cause, and it is a just one. Progressive leftism and liberalism went too far. Populism is a big fuck you to the establishment that failed the vast majority, and mocks most peoples sensibilities. Liberalism magnified the marginalised, whilst marginalising the majority. Liberal progressivism didn't just the push boundaries of taboo (which is healthy in an evolving society) but demolished them completely and all too quickly.

The end result is a society living lost at sea in moral relativism. Pride parades with naked vulgarity on display, twerking drag queens in front of kids, emojis of a pregnant man actually existing on most communication apps 🫃🏻How does one feel okay raising kids in this sort of society? This is what many Americans fear being exported out of blue cities to their cities.

Then it’s the disdain for masculinity and framing even the most natural of masculine impulses as toxic - mocking the essence of half of humanity, which are the very backbone of a society. The back bone of society that makes it run on a foundational level is the working class - which was gutted out to a globalist corporate parasite. Decent men wanting to make a decent living to be able to provide for a family - not only was that taken from them, their very essence was mocked in the process.

Can’t denigrate the back bone of society without them coming back - bonified, dignified, and ready to confront those that turned their backs on them.

Edited October 27 by zazen

[MrTruf]

3 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I personally know a few Trump supporters. They're all white men with issues and think the illegals are taking away from them. They're all personally struggling in their lives in every aspect and believe it's others that caused them to be in the position they're in. So it seems they're voting for him to solve their problems of which Trump couldn't care less about. They all say too, to excuse his devilry, that he's human and they don't necessarily agree with who he is personally, but they love his policies. They all seem angry at the world and are easily agitated. They're the average blue collar worker that thinks life is unfair and they should be doing better because this is America and they are white. That part is just me saying. I just listen and ignore. 

From my comment, you can see what the devil can cater to and what it uses to sell. 

Trump has neither real policies nor the competence to implement them (even if he did have some), and he's far from a genuine conservative... so what's new? My response here is to the topic of this thread- he resonates with people who feel dismissed, unheard, and frustrated with the usual empty promises. If you're claiming that their grievances and sense of alienation aren't legitimate, you're sorely mistaken

[Princess Arabia]

47 minutes ago, MrTruf said:

If you're claiming that their grievances and sense of alienation aren't legitimate, you're sorely mistaken

This is why I don't get into political debates, along with the fact that I don't know enough of the inside workings to. 

Nothing in my comment mentioned anything about legitimacy or the lack thereof. All this stuff is a matter of subjectivity, and no one has the right to tell another that their grievances aren't legitimate. I said nothing of the sort and any implications that that's the case in solely coming from your ideas and analysis of what was said and not what was actually said.

[MrTruf]

4 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is why I don't get into political debates, along with the fact that I don't know enough of the inside workings to. 

Nothing in my comment mentioned anything about legitimacy or the lack thereof. All this stuff is a matter of subjectivity, and no one has the right to tell another that their grievances aren't legitimate. I said nothing of the sort and any implications that that's the case in solely coming from your ideas and analysis of what was said and not what was actually said.

It was not directed at You personally, calm down 

Edited October 27 by MrTruf

[What Am I]

1 hour ago, MrTruf said:

I understand that a chaotic influence in leadership can be seen as a danger rather than a solution. But this phenomenon also reveals a significant disconnect and sense of alienation felt by a large portion of the American public, which is worth examining rather than dismissing outright, especially in the way that's common to your types. I’m not willing to say that 80+ million people voting for Trump are simply a low-consciousness, morally deficient bunch. Ironically, that's just as much a "one data point" judgment as what you call "bad thinking"

You are so convinced of your position and denigrate others who "leave room" for other interpratations, that it's laughable if you knew how Reality works. Which you don't, despite your grandiose claims to the contrary.

I do get the impression they think anyone who doesn't strictly toe their line of reasoning must obviously be inferior, even down to their capacity for conscious experience lol. If it was me, I'd choose a different way to co-exist with others.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, MrTruf said:

. If you're claiming that their grievances and sense of alienation aren't legitimate, you're sorely mistaken

This sounds like a statement directed personally at someone. I didn't say you were attacking my character, but you were addressing me personally. 

Edited October 27 by Princess Arabia

[cistanche_enjoyer]

OP I fully agree with what you have written. However, I still think Trump is the best option, only because of his team:

- Elon Musk: basically AGI (artificial general intelligence) is coming in the next years, and things can go very south unless appropriate decisions on how to limit it are taken very fast. I think the only person capable to do so is Musk. We are talking about one of the biggest existential threats in the future (next 2-3 years), not many people realize what achieving AGI really implies.

- RFK Jr.: all our food and water supply have toxins. And it's getting worse, maybe to a point of no return. RFK Jr. is the only person capable and willing to stop this.

[MrTruf]

12 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This sounds like a statement directed personally at someone. I didn't say you were attacking my character, but you were addressing me personally. 

I started by replying to your message, but my response was also in line with my previous posts, as I was trying to make a broader statement (at least in my mind). Sorry for the confusion

[Princess Arabia]

13 minutes ago, MrTruf said:

I started by replying to your message, but my response was also in line with my previous posts, as I was trying to make a broader statement (at least in my mind). Sorry for the confusion

Ok. 

[Joshe]

4 hours ago, MrTruf said:

Thank you for your response, even though it's exactly the same every time. You've perfected your opinion on this matter down to a T. As per usual with your communication, there's an important emotional element at play (verging on hysteria sometimes), especially when discussing "Trumpism" and its perceived effects on social fabric and the values you think everyone should hold. Lets be real, the concept of a "chaos agent" doesn’t imply full moral endorsement, rather, it reflects an attempt by some to reshape or at least push against a system they view as inherently resistant to reform. This isn’t unique to Trump. Obama and Bernie  also drew votes from those who felt disenfranchised. It's a valid sentiment, despite your judgments.

I understand that a chaotic influence in leadership can be seen as a danger rather than a solution. But this phenomenon also reveals a significant disconnect and sense of alienation felt by a large portion of the American public, which is worth examining rather than dismissing outright, especially in the way that's common to your types. I’m not willing to say that 80+ million people voting for Trump are simply a low-consciousness, morally deficient bunch. Ironically, that's just as much a "one data point" judgment as what you call "bad thinking"

You are so convinced of your position and denigrate others who "leave room" for other interpratations, that it's laughable if you knew how Reality works. Which you don't, despite your grandiose claims to the contrary.

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn’t bother responding, because it’s clear you’ll just rant the same way you’ve done for months. We get it.

Even your adhoms are fallacious. Your entire post relies on false assumptions and your understanding of the topic is lacking. 

Why do you assume my position dismisses their grievances? Why do you assume I haven't examined the disconnect you're referring to? Why do you assume I simply chalk up the 80+ million people to simply being low-conscious? Why do you assume I view those 80 million as the scum of the earth? Do you like these assumptions because they help you dismiss the truth? The people in my life who I love most are Trumpists. I'm not very political. But you and your "type" ignorantly label anyone who has my position as being left or progressive, because you use your assumptions as if they're fact.

4 hours ago, MrTruf said:

You've perfected your opinion on this matter down to a T.

That's how the truth works. It's perfect and it can't be tore down, no matter how hard you try. It's coherent and logical. You can criticize my interpretation of the truth and maybe say I focus too much on one aspect of it, but no one cares what you say if you dismiss the truth outright. And please, spare us your Tucker Carlson talking points. 

Lastly, why do you feel the need to wrap the word Trumpism in quotes? Is it because you reject the term? I don't need an answer. I already know that's the case. Good day to you sir. 

Edited October 27 by Joshe

[zazen]

What if this phenomena isn’t just isolated to Trump and America but a common pattern across the West atm. Its populism. Understand populism and you’ll understand its derivative that is Trumpism. This “Trumpism” isn’t going away with Trump - as long as large cohorts of the populace aren’t respected, let alone catered to. If the Democrats and the left in general didn’t deride men as a category, especially the working man - we wouldn’t have this populist phoenix coming to set fire on our asses.

The hope is that Trumps ill conduct and brashness doesn't brush off on and erode the political machine - but that the team who is much more competent than he is oils and makes the machine work - not for the entrenched establishment but for the people. Of course it will also serve a new faction of elite interests, but if it can work for the people in conjunction, that is more welcome than the current status quo which doesn't.

Edited October 27 by zazen

[MrTruf]

25 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Why do you assume my position dismisses their grievances? Why do you assume I haven't examined the disconnect you're referring to? Why do you assume I simply chalk up the 80+ million people to simply being low-conscious? Why do you assume I view those 80 million as the scum of the earth? Do you like these assumptions because they help you dismiss the truth? The people in my life who I love most are Trumpists. I'm not very political. But you and your "type" ignorantly label anyone who has my position as being left or progressive, because you assume things you cannot know. 

Really? I'll leave it to the other members to decide for themselves  

25 minutes ago, Joshe said:

But you and your "type" ignorantly label anyone who has my position as being left or progressive, because you use your assumptions as if they're fact.

"Your types" I meant people with apparent TDS and the way you frame the situation. I don't care if you're a leftist, and it's definitely not an insult where I'm from.

25 minutes ago, Joshe said:

That's how the truth works. It's perfect and it can't be tore down, no matter how hard you try. It's coherent and logical. You can criticize my interpretation of the truth and maybe say I focus too much on one aspect of it, but no one cares what you say if you dismiss the truth outright. And please, spare us your Tucker Carlson talking points. 

Good for you! Nice job 

Edited October 27 by MrTruf