Trump on the Joe Rogan podcast

[Raze]

42 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

The problem I’ve seen with her is that she has completely failed to market herself to the Joe Rogan crowd. Her strategy to get straight men to vote for her is abismal. I’m seeing trump all over podcasts and stuff I would watch and she is nowhere to be seen. Meanwhile she has “trust women”, this feminist crap on large screens at her rallies and in her crowd I see a huge lack of testosterone. I’m tired of the dem party being so effeminate. She could of went more centrist and really campaigned more with the military. She’s too scared to disrupt far left voices in her party. I don’t like how “soft” the dems are, no offense. If it’s the party of democracy it needs to make room for masculinity. I’m not voting for either. 

That’s what she is doing, she touted a endorsement from Dick Cheney and bragged that she will increase the American militaries lethality. 

[Buck Edwards]

17 minutes ago, josemar said:

Economy was booming, inflation was under control..

Absolutely no evidence for this. During Covid, economy was worse. And Trump does not want to tax the rich. 

The only good point I can offer Trump is that he might have slightly reduced medical drug costs. 

But Trump made a lot of divisive comments, the racial situation was much worse during Trump, with the Charlottesville incident. Trump fueled hatred to the point that lead to the January 6th attack. 

And Trump vehemently denied election results calling it a fraud. A person with the mindset of Trump is very dangerous because it can easily create a dictatorial government. He might not be Hitler but he is able to generate divisive hatred and that matters a lot. 

You might think it's few people who are dying but it's still some people who died and it's not worth it. 

Even if Trump wins, the situation is not going to be better under his administration because he feeds a lot on chaos. It's people like Trump who have ruined free speech. Now there is more censorship on speech because of his hate speech politics. 

Edited October 26 by Buck Edwards

[What Am I]

9 minutes ago, Raze said:

That’s what she is doing, she touted a endorsement from Dick Cheney and bragged that she will increase the American militaries lethality. 

Jesus lol, that is not the kind of masculinity the Rogan crowd wants. In their minds, Kamala's endorsement from Dick Cheney just provides further reassurance that they've made the right choice.

[josemar]

14 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Absolutely no evidence for this. During Covid, economy was worse. And Trump does not want to tax the rich. 

 

My pockets are enough evidence. Do you want me to listen to people telling me I was worse under Trump? Nope.

15 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

And Trump vehemently denied election results calling it a fraud. A person with the mindset of Trump is very dangerous because it can easily create a dictatorial government. He might not be Hitler but he is able to generate divisive hatred and that matters a lot. 

 

What if... (are you sitting down?) the election was a fraud? With all the involvement of 3 letter agencies to censor non-mainstream narratives, is it that difficult to believe they are doing everything they can (without being discovered) to prevent Trump from being elected?

What about the rest of the American political apparatus, will they just sit down and allow Trump to become a dictator, have you so little faith in it? Fearmongering BS.

18 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Even if Trump wins, the situation is not going to be better under his administration because he feeds a lot on chaos. It's people like Trump who have ruined free speech. Now there is more censorship on speech because of his hate speech politics. 

Funny how only right wing people are censored by the left wing government. Why not censor everyone equally? Because the lefties want to use it for their benefit.

How about not censoring anybody?

[DocWatts]

No point in trying to reach people within the MAGA Cult, who truly give no fucks as to whether the talking points they're sock puppeting are true or not - when what they're looking for is a powerful daddy figure to persecute their perceived enemies.

Edited October 26 by DocWatts

[What Am I]

1 minute ago, DocWatts said:

No point in trying to reach people within the MAGA Cult

But once this door is closed, isn't violence the only remaining option?

[Buck Edwards]

2 minutes ago, What Am I said:

But once this door is closed, isn't violence the only remaining option?

What kind of violence? 

[DocWatts]

4 minutes ago, What Am I said:

But once this door is closed, isn't violence the only remaining option?

Not at all - MAGA is, and will always be, a minoritarian position, supported by perhaps %30-35 of the country. Stopping it hinges upon the rest of the country taking enough of an interest in our democracy to save it from violent fringe extremists.

 

Edited October 26 by DocWatts

[What Am I]

2 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

What kind of violence? 

I guess whatever form it may take to realize your vision for the country. With a dialogue, there's at least hope for that vision being shared. But when communications break down, it becomes a battle for control that can even become kinetic. That's my impression of where things may go once people truly stop talking.

[What Am I]

2 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Not at all - MAGA is, and will always be, a minoritarian position, supported by perhaps %30-35 of the country. Stopping it hinges upon the rest of the country taking enough of an interest in our democracy to save it from violent fringe extremists.

Sure, but how would they go about doing that aside from civil and honest persuasion? Forced reeducation? Maybe even exterminations? It's difficult to imagine actions such as those producing a better world in the end.

[Buck Edwards]

5 minutes ago, What Am I said:

Sure, but how would they go about doing that aside from civil and honest persuasion? Forced reeducation? Maybe even exterminations? It's difficult to imagine actions such as those producing a better world in the end.

It's a cult of personality. It fades with time. People will be obsessed with Trump for some time. Then it will fade into obscurity as time goes. It's like mass hysteria. After many years passed, people will realize how foolish it all was. 

[DocWatts]

13 minutes ago, What Am I said:

Sure, but how would they go about doing that aside from civil and honest persuasion? Forced reeducation? Maybe even exterminations? It's difficult to imagine actions such as those producing a better world in the end.

Open dialogue sounds great in theory, but it only works when both sides are operating in good faith.

Stemming the flow of disinformation, disrupting the ability of fascist groups to perpetuate violence, and piercing Trump's cult of personality through an election loss and legal consequences for his flagrantly criminal behavior is a start. Reforming our institutions to make it harder for minoritarian rule would be necessary as well - the Electoral College, Supreme Court, and Senate are obvious places to start.

While heart-to-hearts may get some members of Cult like organizations like MAGA or the KKK to reevaluate their beliefs, there's difficulty in scaling that up to tens of millions of people. Fortunately for us, we don't have deprogram everyone who's in the MAGA Cult. We just need to disrupt their ability to dismantle our democracy.

Edited October 26 by DocWatts

[LordFall]

52 minutes ago, Raze said:

That’s what she is doing, she touted a endorsement from Dick Cheney and bragged that she will increase the American militaries lethality. 

Really? That's wild. One of the biggest problems of this election is both candidates are corrupt af and even if Trump is 300% more corrupt it doesn't matter as long as it's in a different way than his opponent he can still look good from a lot of angles. 

[What Am I]

4 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

It's a cult of personality. It fades with time. People will be obsessed with Trump for some time. Then it will fade into obscurity as time goes. It's like mass hysteria. After many years passed, people will realize how foolish it all was. 

I think you're correct in a sense, but "Trumpism" has grown quite a bit larger than Trump himself. It seems more like we're dealing with a global anti-establishment uprising, which I guess will eventually calm down one way or the other, but I don't think its continued existence will be dependent on Trump's presence.

[What Am I]

24 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Open dialogue sounds great in theory, but it only works when both sides are operating in good faith.

Stemming the flow of disinformation, disrupting the ability of fascist groups to perpetuate violence, and piercing Trump's cult of personality through an election loss and legal consequences for his flagrantly criminal behavior is a start. Reforming our institutions to make it harder for minoritarian rule would be necessary as well - the Electoral College, Supreme Court, and Senate are obvious places to start.

While heart-to-hearts may get some members of Cult like organizations like MAGA or the KKK to reevaluate their beliefs, there's difficulty in scaling that up to tens of millions of people. Fortunately for us, we don't have deprogram everyone who's in the MAGA Cult. We just need to disrupt their ability to dismantle our democracy.

Some of that sounds awfully similar in practice to "stamping them out with an iron fist," lol. I have a feeling those tens of millions (and likely growing) won't look kindly on their way of life becoming criminalized, their leaders being imprisoned, and the existing governmental rules getting modified to ensure any hope they have of attaining power is stripped away in perpetuity. Something tells me they won't just snap out of it and morph into the obedient citizens that you may hope for, but rather they'll continue to exist with an invigorated hatred of the establishment that we've never witnessed in our lifetime.

I'm not saying I have a better plan, but this one strikes me as heavy-handed in the extreme and unlikely to succeed when you're talking about so many people. It'd probably work out great for obliterating a group of a few hundred or something like that.

[Lyubov]

I’m not voting for trump based on his constant lies and Jan 6. I’m not voting Kamala due to her lack of vision and the rejection of masculinity.

[DocWatts]

13 minutes ago, What Am I said:

Some of that sounds awfully similar in practice to "stamping them out with an iron fist," lol. I have a feeling those tens of millions (and likely growing) won't look kindly on their way of life becoming criminalized, their leaders being imprisoned, and the existing governmental rules getting modified to ensure any hope they have of attaining power is stripped away in perpetuity. Something tells me they won't just snap out of it and morph into the obedient citizens that you may hope for, but rather they'll continue to exist with an invigorated hatred of the establishment that we've never witnessed in our lifetime.

Holding Trump's inner circle and the stochastic terrorists he's inspired accountable for flagrantly criminal actions isn't an iron first, it's the bare minimum for adhering to the Rule Of Law, essential for any functioning democracy. 

Donald Trump getting to effectively be above the law because he's got a violent Cult behind him sets a ruinous precedent. It's the equivalent of letting Hitler and his brown-shirts off the hook for trying to overthrow the Weimer government in his Beer Hall Putsch (in reality, Hitler got off the hook with a short, relatively comfortable prison sentence) - and we saw how that turned out.

What's supposed to happen within a democracy is that when a political party loses, it's supposed to go back to the drawing board, figure out what went wrong, and figure out how to garner enough public support to win the next. Instead of changing course and moderating its views to be more palatable to ordinary Americans, the modern Republican Party has decided that they'd be better of ending democracy rather than competing for power within democracy.

Edited October 26 by DocWatts

[MrTruf]

2 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Holding Trump and his inner circle accountable for their flagrantly criminal actions isn't an iron first, it's the bare minimum for adhering to the Rule Of Law that's essential for any functioning democracy. Donald Trump getting to effectively be above the law because he's got a violent Cult behind him sets a ruinous precedent - it's the equivalent of letting Hitler and his brown-shirts off the hook for trying to overthrow the government in his BeerHall Putsch (he got off with a short, relatively comfortable prison sentence) - we saw how that turned out.

What's supposed to happen within a democracy is that when a political party loses, it's supposed to go back to the drawing board, figure out what went wrong, and figure out how to garner enough public support to win the next. Instead of changing course and moderating its views to be more palatable to ordinary Americans, the modern Republican Party has decided that they'd be better of ending democracy rather than competing for power within democracy.

Hi, Doc. The reality of the situation is that Trump is most likely to be the winner of this election cycle. My question to you is: what’s next?

[Schizophonia]

Did they talked about DMT ? 🤔

Edited October 26 by Schizophonia

[What Am I]

31 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Holding Trump's inner circle and the stochastic terrorists he's inspired accountable for flagrantly criminal actions isn't an iron first, it's the bare minimum for adhering to the Rule Of Law, essential for any functioning democracy. 

I don't think you're entirely wrong here in terms of keeping those with power accountable, but it sounds like your intention isn't just to imprison Trump and his ilk. It sounds like you want to crush the entire anti-establishment movement, in which Trump is merely an extension of. That starts to get more "iron fisty" in my opinion, and similar to the actions of someone flipping the board when they're not happy with how the game is going.

31 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Donald Trump getting to effectively be above the law because he's got a violent Cult behind him sets a ruinous precedent. It's the equivalent of letting Hitler and his brown-shirts off the hook for trying to overthrow the Weimer government in his Beer Hall Putsch (in reality, Hitler got off the hook with a short, relatively comfortable prison sentence) - and we saw how that turned out.

While this is true, it's also the conundrum we find ourselves in. I don't have a good answer for how it should be handled. All I can say is that I don't think imprisoning Trump for the rest of his life, or even at all, will produce the kind of results you're hoping for. Maybe it really is a situation where pragmatism should be used when determining how to mete out justice instead of following the law strictly to the letter.

31 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

What's supposed to happen within a democracy is that when a political party loses, it's supposed to go back to the drawing board, figure out what went wrong, and figure out how to garner enough public support to win the next. Instead of changing course and moderating its views to be more palatable to ordinary Americans, the modern Republican Party has decided that they'd be better of ending democracy rather than competing for power within democracy.

I may be mistaken, but it seems to me this is exactly what the Republican party has done. I believe their support has grown somewhat significantly since 2020. And I guess I would echo MrTruf's question regarding the possibility of Trump winning. It seems to me that'd be an expression of democracy rather than an ending of it. I'm curious how you'd view such an event in the framework of what you're trying to protect.

In fact, and not to be cheeky, but the plan you've laid out seems more like an effort to disrupt the democratic process as it is in its current form. I do acknowledge the whole January 6th thing, though. That was definitely some major steps towards a lack of adherence to the democratic rules when figuring in the whole elector plot and everything.

Edited October 26 by What Am I