Awakening and Integration

[Nilsi]

15 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can still do that, but you won't feel like a person doing it. It will be a movie about hot chicks walking by and your body moving after them. You "transcend" the ego, the body, the self, but the self is still there, doing its thing. That is why this is my favorite quote (paraphrasing @Moksha): "Enlightenment is becoming lucid in the dream". You don't wake up and the dream ends. You wake up and the dream continues.

Fair enough.

But I would argue that if it feels like a "lucid dream," that probably says more about your psychology, and I have my theories on what that might be.

If you’re fully into it and have cleansed yourself of all the fantasies and repression (even the very subtle kinds), life could also feel very raw and deeply consequential - like the fundamental instinct of life waking up to itself in you and realizing itself hic et nunc.

I think that's why I'm an atheist, though I'm not entirely sure how the causality works in this case.

Edited October 26 by Nilsi

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Enlightenment is becoming lucid in the dream". You don't wake up and the dream ends. You wake up and the dream continues.

Maybe he thought he's enlightened because he needs so much thinking that. It's very common.

Edited October 26 by Breakingthewall

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Fair enough.

But I would argue that if it feels like a "lucid dream," that probably says more about your psychology, and I have my theories on what that might be.

If you’re fully into it and have cleansed yourself of all the fantasies and repression (even the very subtle kinds), life could also feel very raw and deeply consequential - like the fundamental instinct of life waking up to itself in you and realizing itself hic et nunc.

It doesn't feel like a lucid dream in the sense that things are vague or ephemeral like in a nightly dream. It's a lucid dream in that things actually become clearer. You go from a murky and fuzzy dreamland to a clear and pristine lucid dreamland — reality.

Edited October 26 by Carl-Richard

[selasomes]

Gratefully, I have friends who, even though they wouldn't completely understand if I have a huge rant about my existential crisis will sit there and listen.

Honestly though bro you might not find friends who have been on the path but you can find friends who will listen and make an effort nonetheless.

Also, journaling has really helped me.

But also, this weird phase where your ego is still bruised by Truth is something I've been going through. To be honest, I've kind of accepted that I'm going to be in this phase for however long it requires, so I've just chosen to start to enjoy it more. 

The way I've thought about it in a relative sense is like I've been born too early for my time and I'm just cruising through the dark ages but in a really fun and playful way. Like that's what I as God decided to do in this lifetime.

I've also had the thought in my head that's kept me moving, it's not a bug, it's a feature. If God wanted to God could've created a bullshit game where awakening wasn't possible.

But honestly, bro you don't have to be lonely, there are more open-minded people out there who will listen to you rant even though they can't completely understand.

I'm telling you the loneliness factor is so beautiful, like it's like a feeling where I can feel what at the end of working through this existential crisis and I feel like I'm gonna feel like I wouldn't have it any other way, this dream is so cool.

loneliness is freeing, also on Leo's video Infinity Of Gods near the end he talks about this, I suggest you look at that.

I also do this thing where I have a conversation with God in my mind, even though I'm just talking to myself.

I guess the point is there are so many ways to go about it depending on how you are I guess .

[Nilsi]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

It doesn't feel like a lucid dream in the sense that things are vague or ephemeral like in a nightly dream. It's a lucid dream in that things actually become clearer. You go from a murky fuzzy dreamland to a clear and pristine lucid dreamland — reality.

I get it, but still, the fact that you’re using a dream as an analogy says something about how you experience reality. I would never describe it that way.

Quote

The point is that you don't exit the illusion. The illusion is still there, but you just see it for what it is.

Again, why is it an "illusion"?

I’m happy to talk aesthetics with you; I just want to make sure we’re on the same page about this.

Edited October 26 by Nilsi

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

I get it, but still, the fact that you’re using a dream as an analogy says something about how you experience reality. I would never describe it that way.

The point is that you don't exit the illusion. The illusion is still there, but you just see it for what it is. Illusion, dream, whatever. The dream metaphor is just more visual. In a dream, things seem like reality, but it's really not, but you don't know until you wake up (and it's possible to wake up inside the dream, i.e. lucid dream).

Another reason why the dream metaphor works is because you wake up to something that is beyond the dream or physical reality (emptiness, formlessness), but somehow, you carry that realization into the dream. In other words, you still live as a physical being while having your experience dipped in formlessness.

Edited October 26 by Carl-Richard

[selasomes]

40 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Solipsism is true from an absolute perspective and false from a relative perspective. Both perspectives exist. If you think in solipsism being in a relative perspective, you are introducing psychotic ideas in your mind, like the Leo's video. 

I've been trying to understand this. Just curious, say I have this friend and his name is Jason. I go to the park with Jason and have a conversation with him, he's 'there' within my direct experience. Now I'm home, I think of Jason but he is just a concept in my mind so Jason no longer exists as anything more than a concept, just like Santa is a concept in my mind. I am Jason pretending as God that I am separate from Jason and I am simply imagining Jason and his whole life within my mind but this is all just an illusion. What do you think about this?

Edited October 26 by selasomes

[Nilsi]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The point is that you don't exit the illusion. The illusion is still there, but you just see it for what it is. The dream metaphor is just more visual. In a dream, things seem like reality, but it's really not, but you don't know until you wake up (and it's possible to wake up inside the dream, i.e. lucid dream).

Another reason why the dream metaphor works is because you wake up to something that is beyond the dream or physical reality (emptiness, formlessness), but somehow, you carry that realization into the dream. In other words, you still live as a physical being while having your experience dipped in formlessness.

I’m not saying the metaphor doesn’t work. I’m just saying it’s a particular flavor of experience, and probably contingent on what you did to come to your self-realization.

[Breakingthewall]

awakening is completely dissolving your experience until reality is absolutely limitless and homogeneous, and realizing that this is the nature of reality. Then you return to a relative perspective and realize that everything that appears is that same substance. and that's it, there is no more awakening, everything "more" is less, it is relative knowledge that means absolutely nothing at an absolute level, and at a relative level it is that...relative. So all that about awakening to God, to the illusion, to solipsism, is simply relative knowledge that means nothing 

Edited October 26 by Breakingthewall

[Nilsi]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

awakening is completely dissolving your experience until reality is absolutely limitless and homogeneous, and realizing that this is the nature of reality.

My reality is absolutely limitless and infinitely heterogenous.

[Javfly33]

Seems for so many awakenings your ego has bult an AWAKENED IDENTITY.

Keep the work going because you havent even started.

When you actually Awaken  you instantly Connect because you know they are literally you and your ego can not construct more dualities or feelings of specialness vs others.

 

This does not mean that you will match with all people btw, is just that you won't have trouble relating to people because they will no longer be other people.

Edited October 26 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

My reality is absolutely limitless and infinitely heterogenous.

If it's heterogeneous, it's limited. But you could realize that really it's homogeneous, it's always the same substance with different appearances

[JoshB]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can still do that, but you won't feel like a person doing it. It will be a movie about hot chicks walking by and your body moving after them. You "transcend" the ego, the body, the self, but the self is still there, doing its thing. That is why this is my favorite quote (paraphrasing @Moksha): "Enlightenment is becoming lucid in the dream". You don't wake up and the dream ends. You wake up and the dream continues.

Exactly, even though it's a movie the actor still has to "act"

[JoshB]

57 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The point is that you don't exit the illusion. The illusion is still there, but you just see it for what it is. Illusion, dream, whatever. The dream metaphor is just more visual. In a dream, things seem like reality, but it's really not, but you don't know until you wake up (and it's possible to wake up inside the dream, i.e. lucid dream).

Another reason why the dream metaphor works is because you wake up to something that is beyond the dream or physical reality (emptiness, formlessness), but somehow, you carry that realization into the dream. In other words, you still live as a physical being while having your experience dipped in formlessness.

You don't drop the illusions, you see them for what they are and learn to live with them. Spot on 

[Breakingthewall]

46 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

When you actually Awaken  you instantly Connect because you know they are literally you and your ego can not construct more dualities or feelings of specialness vs others.

 

This does not mean that you will match with all people btw, is just that you won't have trouble relating to people because they will no longer be other people.

Exactly. People who say that after awakening then have problems to to relate to others since they are at another level, it is because they have not really awakened. If you are awake you see that the others are you, and you relate in a much more direct way. No are you as a ego, you are not imagining them, they are you as substance, you and them are the same. You're not looking for people who know things, you're looking for people who don't put up barriers. The connection that occurs is not mental, the mental does not mean anything, it is real connection because you are open to what you are. It's like when you were a kid and have friends in the school, the problem is that when adults most of them put a lot of barriers, the thing is don't do the same

Edited October 26 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

The difference between relative solipsism and absolute solipsism is that relative solipsism is psycho, you think that you are imagining the others, but you can't make them act at your will or change the appearance because you are god and blocked the game, but can't unblock it. Then at the end of the movie the main character awakes in the mental institution. 

The real solipsism means that you are not you, you are the substance of the reality. What you are is let's say "something" not someone. Then the others and anything else is the same thing 

[Nilsi]

54 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If it's heterogeneous, it's limited. But you could realize that really it's homogeneous, it's always the same substance with different appearances

It's precisely unlimited only when it's difference; something that might be grasped conceptually as a substance, but even that finite conception keeps changing with each repetition and is always inadequate at capturing the fundamental dynamism of reality.

[creativepursuit]

@JoshB  The moment you make a pot out of clay, the unmanifested nature of the clay is gone due to its manifestation. I agree with @Davino that pure awakening is antithetical to your survival (not just your physical body but your idea of you). But, again, the manifestation just appears. It is an illusion. Pure awareness is beyond this manifestation (you coming back as ego trying to integrate life) and unmanifested (your awakened self).

Try to renunciate both what's manifested and what is yet unmanifested.

 

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Nilsi said:

It's precisely unlimited only when it's difference; something that might be grasped conceptually as a substance, but even that finite conception keeps changing with each repetition and is always inadequate at capturing the fundamental dynamism of reality.

You can't grasp conceptually the substance of reality even for 1 second, precisely because it's not relative. Relative means in relationship with anything else, the substance of reality is immutable, always is the same, then you can't think in it, you can be open to it. 

That about change and dynamism is relative, not false. Absolute and relative are two perspectives, to place yourself in an absolute perspective you have to totally dissolve the self, because the self is the relative. The problem with the relative perspective is that is a mental jail, and it's extremely difficult to exit of it, because the self is real. They could say that if someone smash your bones with a hammer is an illusion but no, it's real, as a relative appearance. What is also real is that " someone smashing your bones wimth a hammer" is a relative form made of the substance of the reality, same than everything else. If it's happening, you can't see anything except the form, you will be blind to the substance. In fact we are blind to the substance almost always, because we get lost in the form, it's inevitable, because the "you" is form . For the reality perceives itself as a substance, the self must dissapear , and to dissapear must be deactivate. it's something that requires deep understanding about how the self is being created , be totally honest with yourself all time, then you could let go everything. It's difficult because nobody wants to be honest with himself, wants the best experience. That is the self. But paradoxical doing it it get closed to the best experience, that is the openess to the true nature of reality 

 

Edited October 27 by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

On 10/25/2024 at 11:54 PM, JoshB said:

Hey guys just wanted to drop in and ask some questions. 

As a intro to me I've been awakening going on 6 years now. I'm 23 and started watching leo mid highschool then started awakening shortly after. 

I've awoken to God, that I am God, No Self, Solipsism, Truth, Love, Infinity, Conciousness, Nothing, Eternity, Etc

And by no means done awakening but I'm really struggling to integrate all of this into my everyday life. I feel handicapped in the sense that it feels incredibly hard to relate and interact with people at a relative level. 

As much as I've been concious and it's amazing what I've awoken to. I feel incredibly isolated (not lonely) and have trouble accepting the boundaries of every day life. 

I'm just curious how after having RADICAL realizations how you fit that into everyday life and fully / properly intergrate into your everyday life. And engage properly with people who don't understand what awakening is.

 

 

First You should be relatively a Happy Person if Your Awakened as You say, then this Life becomes a Game, just play it.. Its like sitting down with a bunch of 3yr olds in a park, just play with them, run around, throw a ball, laugh, jump, skip, no care in the world..just do that, that is how You integrate it..

Thinking about it all day, calculating how to do it all day, wondering if I am right or wrong, or what is happening to me all day, is not it!