Awakening and Integration

[JoshB]

25 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

There is no "you" having to do anything in a "complete" state of awakening (enlightenment). If you fear being unable to function, then that is a fear you have to let go. You have to trust yourself. It takes infinite trust. If you don't want to let go of that fear, then don't. Maybe the reason you don't want to let go is that you want to keep doing things as a seemingly separate individual that feels like they're in control. Maybe you are insecure about something, or you have some unfulfilled desire. Identify those things and pursue them. Then come back to awakening later.

Yes no self no problem no limit 

It's not fear, I don't think I'm properly communicating the point across. 

Even if you realize no self you still have to survive and it's managing said survival while being awake to the aftermentioned realizations.

You could be headless but if someone throws a football at your face you still duck. 

Edited October 26 by JoshB

[JoshB]

4 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Do you really need to be a "separate individual who feels like they’re in control" to desire or to occasionally be overwhelmed by emotions?

The issue is I'm not a separate individual and integrating that into life where I need to act and survive as a separate individual is the issue. 

[JoshB]

It doesn't matter if you realize no self and nothingness you still need to survive as the human you are dreaming yourself to be. That's if you care about survival at least. 

If you go without food for days your stomach isn't going to care if you're enlightened.

Edited October 26 by JoshB

[Nilsi]

4 minutes ago, JoshB said:

You could be headless but if someone throws a football at your face you still duck. 

This is a feature, not a bug.

Unless, of course, your definition of awakening is getting hit in the face with a football. I won’t judge either way - if you’re some kind of perverted masochist, I'm all for it.

[JoshB]

2 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

This is a feature, not a bug.

Unless, of course, your definition of awakening is getting hit in the face with a football. I won’t judge either way - if you’re some kind of perverted masochist, I'm all for it.

What? 

If someones definition of awakening is getting hit in the face with a football they're  a fucking moron 

Edited October 26 by JoshB

[Nilsi]

7 minutes ago, JoshB said:

What? 

If someones definition of awakening is getting hit in the face with a football they're  a fucking moron 

You’d be surprised at the kinds of fantasies people are spinning around the idea of awakening.

[Carl-Richard]

26 minutes ago, JoshB said:

Even if you realize no self you still have to survive and it's managing said survival while being awake to the aftermentioned realizations.

What troubles do you have with survival?

[Davino]

18 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What troubles do you have with survival?

If your survival hasn't been deeply put at risk by Awakening there is still much more room for growth

[Davino]

@JoshB Sorry you have to endure this gaslighting and other people misunderstanding you.

It's part of the process, embrace it totally.

Quote

Forget about other people and spreading awakening or feeling understood in that department, it's not going to happen.

Really, this realization has to hit you like a metorite

You are all alone buddy. Ain't nobody gonna understand your awakenings

And for those who do

Well we already do, there is nothing to say

[JoshB]

6 minutes ago, Davino said:

@JoshB Sorry you have to endure this gaslighting and other people misunderstanding you.

It's part of the process, embrace it totally.

Really, this realization has to hit you like a metorite

You are all alone buddy. Ain't nobody gonna understand your awakenings

And for those who do

Well we already do, there is nothing to say

My issue isn't having others relate to me or my awakenings , it's me relating to others 

[Davino]

@JoshB Part of you relating to others is feeling understood by others. I know how much Awakenings shape you, specially at the highest levels.

I can tell you how I solved this. I got a very nice girlfriend, had some Awakenings and psychedelics with her and fulfill that need of relating. You gotta find that little hack to make it bearable and to feel that human connection. Team sports can also feel great, particularly martial arts. Or nice family relatives can also make the trick. Don't know, it's a thorny situation, that I know.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

Do you really need to be a "separate individual who feels like they’re in control" to desire or to occasionally be overwhelmed by emotions?

Overwhelmed as in "oweee poor mee's, I dunno what to dooo, who am I in this chaos, what is going on..."? Basically, yes. Overwhelmed as in "I have such a strong desire to fulfill this goal, I'm overwhelmed by drive and purpose, I'm drowning in ecstatic bliss, rapture and the wonder of life"? No. You can have those things when enlightened, but if they're not virtually constant, they will be very streamlined and fleeting. Rarely will you approach a problem and feel stuck.

Neuroscientifically speaking, enlightenment puts you in a constant doing-mode. There is very little room for hesitation, at least moment to moment. You can "hesitate" or withhold making a decision; you can be wise and wait things out; but indecision due to personal calamities and generally unstable behavior is rather out of the picture definitionally. You could imagine someone regressing in their state due to severe environmental stress or illness, but other than that, no, they're pretty much beyond that.

If you look at sincerely enlightened people; the way they act, the way they move, speak, emote; it's like a flowing stream. They have let go of something big, partially the desire to control, partially the desire to be something, to have something, to let something be other than it is. And of course the paradox is that on the outside, it looks almost nothing like it. They are doing so many things, they are making so many apparent decisions, have such strong desires and values. To discern enlightenment, requires dealing with subtle clues.

Edited October 26 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

21 minutes ago, Davino said:

If your survival hasn't been deeply put at risk by Awakening there is still much more room for growth

You're speaking to death himself, my guy ;D

[Davino]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You're speaking to death himself, my guy ;D

Don't speak about death to me if you haven't brokenthrough in Salvia

You're speaking to Salvia itself

I have very radical points on Awakening and I'm not lowering the bar anymore

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, JoshB said:

I would say I'm having the most trouble integrating solipsism. Not because it's bad or I don't like being alone. But it's just such a radical paradigm shift and I'm still having trouble adjusting. @UnbornTao

Solipsism is true from an absolute perspective and false from a relative perspective. Both perspectives exist. If you think in solipsism being in a relative perspective, you are introducing psychotic ideas in your mind, like the Leo's video. 

[Nilsi]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Overwhelmed as in "oweee poor mee's, I dunno what to dooo, who am I in this chaos, what is going on..."? Basically, yes. Overwhelmed as in "I have such a strong desire to fulfill this goal, I'm overwhelmed by drive and purpose, I'm drowning in ecstatic bliss, rapture and the wonder of life"? No. You can have those things when enlightened, but if they're not virtually constant, they will be very streamlined and fleeting. Rarely will you approach a problem and feel stuck.

Neuroscientifically speaking, enlightenment puts you in a constant doing-mode. There is very little room for hesitation, at least moment to moment. You can "hesitate" or withhold making a decision; you can be wise and wait things out; but indecision due to personal calamities and generally unstable behavior is rather out of the picture definitionally. You could imagine someone regressing in their state due to severe environmental stress or illness, but other than that, no, they're pretty much beyond that.

If you look at sincerely enlightened people; the way they act, the way they move, speak, emote; it's like a flowing stream. They have let go of something big, partially the desire to control, partially the desire to be something, to have something, to let something be other than it is. And of course the paradox is that on the outside, it almost looks nothing like it. They are doing so many things, they are making so many apparent decisions, have such strong desires and values. To discern enlightenment, requires dealing with subtle clues.

Fair enough. 

I still don't get why you would say something like this:

Quote

 

Maybe you are insecure about something, or you have some unfulfilled desire. Identify those things and pursue them. Then come back to awakening later.

 

You can "let go" and immerse yourself in a deep meditation, staring into the void while the void stares back, basking in the bottomlessness of reality, and then suddenly, some hot chick walks by, and your desire kicks in, completely taking over your experience. This has nothing to do with "ego." And it extends far beyond basic biological drives. You will still be compelled to pursue the things you’re good at, to enact your "will to power," to speak with Nietzsche. That’s just a fundamental fact of life.

It’s not something you’re ever going to get rid of, nor would you want to.

[Breakingthewall]

@JoshB for example, if you think: I'm god imagining the others to be sleeping, or those thoughts, it's all psycho. It's like thinking: Odin creates the earth after the fight against the giants and I have to die with a sword in my hand to go to paradise 

[Nilsi]

12 minutes ago, Davino said:

Don't speak about death to me if you haven't brokenthrough in Salvia

You're speaking to Salvia itself

I have very radical points on Awakening and I'm not lowering the bar anymore

Exhibit A: “The slave revolt in morality begins when ressentiment itself becomes creative and gives birth to values: the ressentiment of natures that are denied the true reaction, that of deeds, and compensate themselves with an imaginary revenge.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Edited October 26 by Nilsi

[Breakingthewall]

Btw, think what is the % of your direct realization and what are ideas introduced by others. You could say inspired by others, that's good. I prefer the term "brainwash", seems more accurate 

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

You can "let go" and immerse yourself in a deep meditation, staring into the void while the void stares back, basking in the bottomlessness of reality, and then suddenly, some hot chick walks by, and your desire kicks in, completely taking over your experience. This has nothing to do with "ego." And it extends far beyond basic biological drives. You will still be compelled to pursue the things you’re good at, to enact your "will to power," to speak with Nietzsche. That’s just a fundamental fact of life.

It’s not something you’re ever going to get rid of, nor would you want to.

You can still do that, but you won't feel like a person doing it. It will be a movie about hot chicks walking by and your body moving after them. You "transcend" the ego, the body, the self, but the self is still there, doing its thing. That is why this is my favorite quote (paraphrasing @Moksha): "Enlightenment is becoming lucid in the dream". You don't wake up and the dream ends. You wake up and the dream continues.