Leo Gura Is Wrong About Existence

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Nothing is there. It's exactly what allows for something to appear. Without nothing, there cannot be something. That something needs a contrast to be visible.

There is always being, that's something, in fact it's everything. How could being be nothing? Nothing is not existing, and we exist. 

[Princess Arabia]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

True or false perception means nothing, the only difference is if your mental structure makes possible the dissolution of the self or not. In the moment that there is not self, there is not mental structure anymore. I think that we have to shape out conceptual structure in the direction of the openess, not of the truth, because there is not truth in the mental level, the mental level is just an arising that we could use to open our perception or to close it. It's a mess, because, who is using it? Etc. there are a lot of traps that prevent the dissolution 

Yea, you're right. True and false perception doesn't matter, I was trying to make a distinction that it doesn't matter what he or I think in relation to commenting and responses and our perceptions of Reality in the relative sense.

There is already no self  it's a mental structure, like you said. Where is the mess. You already know it's a mental structure. You're not realizing it's the mental structure that's trying to get rid of the mental structure. That's what you're not getting.

[Hojo]

@Princess Arabia is the nothingness in the room with us right now?

Its not in this dimension. It comes through this dimension via closed systems.

Edited October 25 by Hojo

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Hojo said:

@Princess Arabia is the nothingness in the room with us right now?

The nothingness is the room.

[Hojo]

@Princess Arabia point to it

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Hojo said:

@Princess Arabia point to it

Point to me.

[Hojo]

@Princess Arabia are you a room?

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Hojo said:

@Princess Arabia are you a room?

Ok, point to your room.

[Princess Arabia]

@HojoYou say this nothing isn't there. Then I say it is. Then you say point to it. Then I say point to me, then you say are you a room, then I say point to your room. Now you're stuck. I'm sure you see a room there, right. But can you point to it. No. So your logic about point to it just got debunked.

[James123]

@Princess Arabia @Hojo pointer, pointed are identical. 

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, James123 said:

@Princess Arabia @Hojo pointer, pointed are identical. 

Exactly 

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You're not realizing it's the mental structure that's trying to get rid of the mental structure. That's what you're not getting.

Yes that is the mess, when you start t think about what is perceiver and perception. Anything that we think about it is just a mental structure, but behind of the mental structure is the real thing. The real thing can't be thought, because thoughts are structures that arises in it. The objetive is not silent your mind, is deactivate the energy of the thought to be able to open the mental structure. Then there is no more self, but still you are

[Hojo]

@Princess Arabia What if I'm not in a room is the nothingness there when I'm not in a room? If I am in a field is the nothingness there?

If yes clearly the nothingness isn't the room.

Mine is not debunked yours is you claimed nothingness is a room and I'm saying point to the nothingness you cant. So its not the room its not the field and its not you AND its not there.

I'm the one saying its not there you are claiming its there I'm saying prove it. You are stuck not me.

Edited October 25 by Hojo

[Princess Arabia]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes that is the mess, when you start t think about what is perceiver and perception. Anything that we think about it is just a mental structure, but behind of the mental structure is the real thing. The real thing can't be thought, because thoughts are structures that arises in it. The objetive is not silent your mind, is deactivate the energy of the thought to be able to open the mental structure. Then there is no more self, but still you are

How can you deactivate the energy of thought. Energy cannot be destroyed. That's also a thought trying to deactivate a thought. It's all energy. I know you didn't say destroy; but, to me, that's the same thing. How can you separate thought from the real thing. It's a part of it.

It's like saying, let's separate the fire from the wood after the ash has been formed. The ash is a result of the fire and the wood. What remains after the fire burnt the wood is ash. Now you're trying to get back the fire and the wood from the ash. They are intertwined and became one.

Seems like you're trying to do the impossible.

[Princess Arabia]

20 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Princess Arabia What if I'm not in a room is the nothingness there when I'm not in a room? If I am in a field is the nothingness there?

If yes clearly the nothingness isn't the room.

Mine is not debunked yours is you claimed nothingness is a room and I'm saying point to the nothingness you cant. So its not the room its not the field and its not you.

The nothingness is Everywhere at all times and is in every thing. So, yes the nothingness is there in the field.

You're asking me to point to the nothingness in the room, but you can't even locate or point to a room yourself. Whatever you point to will be an object in the room. How can nothing be pointed to, You cannot point to anything physical. What you'll be pointing to are parts of  that physical thing. Keep pointing and deconstructing and you arrive at nothing. Everything is made of nothing. Go to the atoms. What are they made of. Scientists doesn't have an answer because there is nothing there. It's all mental structures. 

Edited October 25 by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

How can you deactivate the energy of thought. Energy cannot be destroyed. That's also a thought trying to deactivate a thought. It's all energy. I know you didn't say destroy; but, to me, that's the same thing. How can you separate thought from the real thing. It's a part of it.

It's like saying, let's separate the fire from the wood after the ash has been formed. The ash is a result of the fire and the wood. What remains after the fire burnt the wood is ash. Now you're trying to get back the fire and the wood from the ash. They are intertwined and became one.

Seems like you're trying to do the impossible.

Its totally possible. The mental structure, as you have said, is reality, but it obscures the perception of the true nature of reality. reality is this eternal moment, but there is an extremely complex structure that creates form, movement, experience. It is impossible (imo) to completely get out of it since it is something real, the mental structure is just the point of the iceberg.  but it is possible to see through it and stop perceiving oneself as form and do so as substance. the substance is immutable, unlimited, eternal, and you recognize yourself as it. You continue to be the form that perceives but you perceive your unlimited interior, and you realize that this is reality and for a moment you merge with it, you stop being the form and you are the total unlimited. It's something that requires intention and that is quite difficult. I can do for short moments using drugs, over all weed mix with LSD is very small doses. It's like the psyche dissapear, there is no more structure, no more barrier, then you perceive that this moment is the reality and what the reality is, it's you, but you in the sense of the substance, it's empty but it is everything, is unlimited but in all the unlimited, you are, and you are everything . There is not other there, but here there is other. It's like 2 realms, 2 dimensions of being. In the absolute there is never loneliness, in the relative, it is 

Edited October 25 by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Its totally possible. The mental structure, as you have said, is reality, but it obscures the perception of the true nature of reality. reality is this eternal moment, but there is an extremely complex structure that creates form, movement, experience. It is impossible (imo) to completely get out of it since it is something real, the mental structure is just the point of the iceberg.  but it is possible to see through it and stop perceiving oneself as form and do so as substance. the substance is immutable, unlimited, eternal, and you recognize yourself as it. You continue to be the form that perceives but you perceive your unlimited interior, and you realize that this is reality and for a moment you merge with it, you stop being the form and you are the total unlimited. It's something that requires intention and that is quite difficult. I can do for short moments using drugs, over all weed mix with LSD is very small doses. It's like the psyche dissapear, there is no more structure, no more barrier, then you perceive that this moment is the reality and what the reality is, it's you, but you in the sense of the substance, it's empty but it is everything, is unlimited but in all the unlimited, you are, and you are everything 

As in Awareness?

[Hojo]

@Princess Arabia You can point to your own head. Thats where the room is. Its not outside its inside. Not in physical reality. Therefore non existent objectively. Saying it exists objectively outside of you is madness.

Edited October 25 by Hojo

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Hojo said:

@Princess Arabia You can point to your own head. Thats where the room is. Its not outside its inside. Not in physical reality.

There's no room inside my head. My head is also made of nothing. I'm not in a room. The room is inside of me. 

[Hojo]

@Princess Arabia But its not the room. Its something else. We are close to progress.

Edited October 25 by Hojo