War Ethics

[Vercingetorix]

What are the ethics of war in a war like what fought In Israel? 

If I hide myself in a civilian place (of my own civilians) or store ammunition there, do the civilians in that place become legitimate targets for my enemy?

Edited October 23 by Vercingetorix

[Leo Gura]

Are you cool with bombing Tel Aviv since IDF members and leaders live there?

If Netanyahu visits a hospital, it's cool to bomb that hospital, right? Why does Netanyahu hide among civilians?

If settlers have guns and ammo, it's cool to bomb settlements, yeah?

Edited October 23 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Are you cool with bombing Tel Aviv since IDF members and leaders live there?

If Netanyahu visits a hospital, it's cool to bomb that hospital, right? Why does Netanyahu hide among civilians?

If settlers have guns and ammo, it's cool to bomb settlements, yeah?

Netanyahu knows damn well they dont care if he is among civilians.  If Hamas had the chance to kill him they would no matter who else died in the process. If you don't believe that you are kidding yourself.  You want to demonize Netanyahu but the truth is Hamas would not hesitate to take out women and children for their cause.

 

 

 

Edited October 23 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Netanyahu knows damn well they dont care if he is among civilians.  If Hamas had the chance to kill him they would no matter who else died in the process. If you don't believe that you are kidding yourself.  You want to demenze Netanyahu but the truth is Hamas would not hesitate to take out women and children for their cause.

Yeah, but you would cry outrage over it. You'd call it terrorism and evil.

Edited October 23 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, but you would cry outrage over it. You'd call it terrorism and evil.

Good guys are the good guys and the bad are the bad

We have lines here let's not muddy the waters. 

Edited October 23 by Inliytened1

[Vercingetorix]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Are you cool with bombing Tel Aviv since IDF members and leaders live there?

If Netanyahu visits a hospital, it's cool to bomb that hospital, right? Why does Netanyahu hide among civilians?

If settlers have guns and ammo, it's cool to bomb settlements, yeah?

Wouldn't a more accurate metaphor would be that Israel build IDF bases in underground of civilian buildings? 

My point is not to defend Israel or anyone, but to understand what is the most ethical way wars can be fought. 

If you say that you are not allowed to bomb a hospital or a school even when it's hiding a military operation or rockets that are used to fire on civilians, you are enabling the use of civilians as Human shields, and I find it quite disgusting. If you want to fight, no problem, but fight like a man and don't hide behind children and woman. And it's so sickening that then you blame your enemy for it. 

 

Edited October 23 by Vercingetorix

[Genius100x]

1 hour ago, Vercingetorix said:

My point is not to defend Israel or anyone, but to understand what is the most ethical way wars can be fought. 

When there's anger and revenge, all ethics flies out of the window. If you were in their place (dictator) and  someone attacks your country, kills civilians....you would do the same. With power there's a great responsibility, which is very hard to handle. People forget humanity when anger takes over. Any of us would do the same, except few conscious individuals. 

〰️〰️

Also keep in mind, those who have designed missiles, worked in arms factories, those who paid taxes to make weapons, etc....they are also the culprits along with the leader and the military. Don't ignore the hidden culprits. 

Of course many of them are innocent. (They are declared "anti-nationals".) They don't deserve torchure/rape/murder. 

Edited October 23 by Genius100x

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Good guys are the good guys and the bad are the bad

You are above such childish views.

[Staples]

There are no ethics.

In war, one does whatever they can get away with in. It's a fight to the death with millions of lives at stake.

Edited October 23 by Staples

[Alex4]

10 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

What are the ethics of war in a war like what fought In Israel? 

If I hide myself in a civilian place (of my own civilians) or store ammunition there, do the civilians in that place become legitimate targets for my enemy?

I think you must be a big piece of shit for hiding behind children and women, no matter how true your cause is. And also for justifying that it's okay to kill 10 civilians for every terrorist. 

 

[Nivsch]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Are you cool with bombing Tel Aviv since IDF members and leaders live there?

If Netanyahu visits a hospital, it's cool to bomb that hospital, right? Why does Netanyahu hide among civilians?

If IDF would initiate attacks aimed to Palestinian civilians killing hunderds or thousands of them, then yes, I would justify bombing Tel Aviv when chasing its commanders, because it is unacceptable that any force will decide by itself to hunt civilians whenever it wants and have a free hand to do so.

Edited October 23 by Nivsch

[Staples]

2 hours ago, Alex4 said:

I think you must be a big piece of shit for hiding behind children and women, no matter how true your cause is. And also for justifying that it's okay to kill 10 civilians for every terrorist. 

 

The piece of shit who wins a war goes home a hero.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Staples said:

There are no ethics.

In war, one does whatever they can get away with in. It's a fight to the death with millions of lives at stake.

Then why cry about terrorists?

The problem is all this invented bullshit.

[Davino]

I'm reminded of the old saying:

Quote

All is fair in Love and War

 

[lostingenosmaze]

This all reminds me of when the Internet debated over a Punisher comic and the ethics of trying to sudue to criminal holding people hostage while wearing baby armor.

[Davino]

@lostingenosmaze fits like a glove

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Staples said:

The piece of shit who wins a war goes home a hero.

He goes home a hero, but isn't a hero to the world if his cause was unjust. The framing that Ultra-Zionists come from is that this is a just cause, because it is for their survival which is at stake - which it objectively isn't by any measure. What is at stake is Palestinian statehood, dignity and livelihood which is a just cause - which is objectively recognized in international law and by the global community.

14 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

What are the ethics of war in a war like what fought In Israel? 

If I hide myself in a civilian place (of my own civilians) or store ammunition there, do the civilians in that place become legitimate targets for my enemy?

The situation makes ethical warfare extremely difficult which is why the most ethical solution is a political one, not a military one. The only caveat is unless Israel's existence is at threat, which it isn't. But Ultra-Zionists will claim it is to justify the''needed'' destruction in Gaza. 

Gaza is a extremely small and densely populated area, making it almost impossible to have distinct military zones. This means that any military activity by Hamas inevitably takes place in civilian areas. What makes Gaza unique is the fact that Gazans have no where to escape the conflict to let the two sides battle it out - which is why the global community urged Israel to be restrained and not continue its bombing campaign.

If a situation is so complex that a distinction can't be made between civilians and combatants - the ethical thing is to not go to war in the first place. Even the term ''war'' is tricky to describe this specific situation. Words aren't just labels but weapons that shape narratives and legitimize actions.

Describing the situation as a "war" leads us to focus on military solutions, whereas recognizing it as an "occupation conflict" brings our attention towards political solutions and addressing the root causes of the tension which is and always has been Palestinian right to self determination, obstructed by a occupation within which settlement expansion and violence occurs.

 

Edited October 23 by zazen

[Staples]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Then why cry about terrorists?

The problem is all this invented bullshit.

Because they threaten me.

But when my country does the terrorizing at 100x the scale, I turn a blind eye.

One rule for me, another rule for thee.

Edited October 23 by Staples

[Nivsch]

12 minutes ago, zazen said:

Zionists

Consider that this word got so much charge that right now as long as this word is keep being used, it will make it more difficult for the discussion to be reasonable.

[Staples]

16 minutes ago, zazen said:

He goes home a hero, but isn't a hero to the world if his cause was unjust. The framing that Zionists come from is that this is a just cause, because it is for their survival which is at stake - which it objectively isn't by any measure. What is at stake is Palestinian statehood, dignity and livelihood which is a just cause - which is objectively recognized in international law and by the global community.

Agreed. I'm obviously not trying to justify war.

I was illustrating a 'history is written by the victors' point. 

Edited October 23 by Staples