Free Will, Determinism, Causation

[Xonas Pitfall]

I think this is one of the best ways to address the question of free will versus determinism, especially from a spiritual perspective. Recognize that all dualities ultimately collapse. At the highest level of consciousness God or the Absolute simply *is*. It can only be Love, and it can only act in accordance with its own nature, which is love itself. In this sense, it is bound by its own essence. Yet, because nothing exists outside of it, it is entirely free, unconstrained by any external forces. There is no "Other" to control it.

This answer embodies both a deterministic, perhaps more pessimistic, view and a more optimistic perspective of freedom.

What do you think holds true on the Relative plane?

[Keryo Koffa]

It's true on an absolute level of course, but it's a false dichotomy to assume the relative is not also.

Edited October 22, 2024 by Keryo Koffa

[Someone here]

I've yet to have anyone convince me Schopenhauer's aren't the final words on the matter: 'You can do what you want, but you can't want what you want.'

That is to say..what ever you do..you have to want it first. Even the phrase 'free will' is an oxymoron. If it's free.. then it can't be bound.. and if it's willed..then it's bound by will. 

[Breakingthewall]

Ultimately there is no free will. The reality cant cease of existing, and can't be finite, then it's just a natural phenomena. Maybe inside of the reality a lot of things happen that give the appearance that there is a lot of free will, but if there isn't that primary free will, the decision of being, any other free will is fake. 

[Javfly33]

28 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Ultimately there is no free will. The reality cant cease of existing, and can't be finite, then it's just a natural phenomena. Maybe inside of the reality a lot of things happen that give the appearance that there is a lot of free will, but if there isn't that primary free will, the decision of being, any other free will is fake. 

there is no reality just you... it depends on you if you want to keep the game going or not.

Self-annihilation is a step most beings prolong for too many lifetimes

seems you want to keep it going so enjoy your 'prison' I guess 👍

 

Is like you built a house you locked yourself at home and you forgot you have the keys of the door in your pants.

1 hour ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

I think this is one of the best ways to address the question of free will versus determinism, especially from a spiritual perspective. Recognize that all dualities ultimately collapse. At the highest level of consciousness God or the Absolute simply *is*. 

What you are is an emptiness which has no existence, only by Identification with his imagination it can create itself as a being.

God or the Absolute is still mind/illusion. 

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which is love itself

Love is part of the illusion (not saying that is bad), but is not your essence.

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it is bound by its own essence.

You are not bound by your own essence because precisely your essence is boundlessness.

Other qualities are liberation, freedom, or non-existence. 

 

Edited October 22, 2024 by Javfly33

[Ishanga]

If no one had any Experience, first this question would never be able to arise or be spoken of, second this forum, our words we use, the keyboard or phone, internet, none of it would exist.  Only via free will has any of this happened, and free will happen via Experience, and Experience is the only thing You really have while Embodied, no Embodiment, no ability to Experience, no use in talking/discussing/bringing up Absolute, God or any of that..

Everything is Relative and/or Subjective, One person say Free Will does not exists, that is one possibility, another says it does, that is another possibility, one says Evil is all the exists, that is one Potential, another says Good is all that Exists, again another Potential, what determines any of this is Your Experience and ability to exert any Potential that can happen, whether it is a Cave Man creating Fire, or Leo's Alien Consciousness, its all Potential and Possibility, only we can navigate the entire spectrum of it, You can live without Free Will, You can Live with It, now what is Your Choice (again Free Will)!

Edited October 22, 2024 by Ishanga

[theleelajoker]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Ultimately there is no free will. The reality cant cease of existing, and can't be finite, then it's just a natural phenomena. Maybe inside of the reality a lot of things happen that give the appearance that there is a lot of free will, but if there isn't that primary free will, the decision of being, any other free will is fake. 

Bold above marked my me.

Some months ago, I had a strong psychedelic trip. I stayed as calm as possible and with my eyes closed, I saw hundreds of images inside my head. Like a movie played extremely fast. I did not have a chance to recognize what these images were - a flashback through my life or sth else - but there was a very concrete feeling. This feeling was "I cannot go anywhere". Later there was another very concrete feeling - "I want to be here"

Of course it does not prove anything, who knows where this came from. But reading the post above immediately reminded me of this moment.

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I've yet to have anyone convince me Schopenhauer's aren't the final words on the matter: 'You can do what you want, but you can't want what you want.'

LOVE THIS

Yeah, concerning free will in general...dunno, sometimes I feel like a puppet, sometimes like a free entity, sometimes in between. Maybe it's a construct that is too strict - free will or no free will? Maybe it's something in between? Like when you mix two different liquids and you cannot separate them afterwards. So there is a part that we can choose, a part that is determined and the result is a ...pina colada.

Edited October 22, 2024 by theleelajoker

[PurpleTree]

19 hours ago, Someone here said:

I've yet to have anyone convince me Schopenhauer's aren't the final words on the matter: 'You can do what you want, but you can't want what you want.'

That is to say..what ever you do..you have to want it first. Even the phrase 'free will' is an oxymoron. If it's free.. then it can't be bound.. and if it's willed..then it's bound by will. 

Nice.

[Theplay]

Free will boils down to ignorance.

You know what you want but are unaware of the causes leading to it.

So you call it "Your will".

In this case spontaneous action will be defined as true free will. 

 

[Xonas Pitfall]

On 10/22/2024 at 8:50 PM, Someone here said:

I've yet to have anyone convince me Schopenhauer's aren't the final words on the matter: 'You can do what you want, but you can't want what you want.'

That is to say..what ever you do..you have to want it first. Even the phrase 'free will' is an oxymoron. If it's free.. then it can't be bound.. and if it's willed..then it's bound by will. 

You can do what you want, but you can't want what you want.

What an amazing quote. Thank you so much! 

[Xonas Pitfall]

On 10/22/2024 at 8:15 PM, Keryo Koffa said:

It's true on an absolute level of course, but it's a false dichotomy to assume the relative is not also.

I completely agree. I suppose what I was asking is: how does this look on a human level?

It seems that the more we align with who we truly are, the more alive, present, and in flow we feel. That sense of being "in the zone" - fully immersed and focused - is a great intuitive sign. If my day-to-day experiences feel as warm, fuzzy, alert, and focused as those deeper moments, like during a trip, it’s probably a good indicator that I’m on the right track! 

What’s really interesting is how my perspective has shifted over time. When I was younger or still learning about the world, I always had this mindset of "I will create and build what I desire." But now, the direction feels different. It’s more about discovering and becoming aware of consistent patterns in my identity - the talents and interests that naturally pull me - and then embodying and expressing that. It’s almost like observing myself from a third-person perspective, managing my life in a way that positions me to live as my ideal self.

Also, I know this channel - it’s great! (∩_∩)