Sufi Initation, Sheikh Abdul Qadir's Shrine

[Ayham]

Hey everyone.

Today, I went to the well-known Sufi shrine of Abdul Qadir, which is a pretty famous landmark here in Iraq. I had planned to meet a Sufi Sheikh I talked to about a month ago here, who had asked me to come back for initation in a month to see if I'm serious about this, but he was busy with a lot of guests when I arrived. I still got to pray two prayers at the mosque, though.

Sufis are often known for doing some unusual things, and I've heard about practices like ecstatic dancing, loud mantra chanting, having visions, and even extreme stuff like piercing their bodies in dangerous places without getting hurt. I know people who have seen things like that with their own eyes—knives going into their bellies or even swallowing glass without any harm. Luckily, nothing that intense happened while I was there; otherwise, I probably would've freaked out.

After the prayer, they started a group chanting session where everyone was praising God and Allah together. It was actually pretty calming and felt powerful, but then things got a little scary. One guy in the group suddenly started shaking and jumping around like he was having a seizure, and another guy started shouting “Allah!” The whole atmosphere just got intense. There were also a few men with huge beards moving in strange ways, and honestly, it left me feeling scared. I was told it's considered a form of "intoxication from divine love" that overwhelms them, but it was still kind of alarming to witness.

Now, I’m not sure what to do. The Sufi sheikh is a very calm and peaceful person, giving off good vibes, and he told me I could come back tomorrow for an initiation ritual. Part of me just wants to get it done and never go again, but I’m worried it could involve some of those bizarre practices or—worse—body piercing. I’m hoping it would just be some recitations, but I can't shake the nervous feeling.

The place is well-guarded, famous and definitely a public landmark, so I doubt anything shady would happen. Still, I'm wondering if I should go back tomorrow or not.

Any thoughts on whether I should go for the initiation?

[Ayham]

I'm feeling scared for real

[Salvijus]

41 minutes ago, Ayham said:

it could involve some of those bizarre practices or—worse—body piercing

Lol. The masters do that to show off sometimes. Nobody stabs the people for the initiation. I wouldn't worry about that lol. It will probably be a blessing and recitations like you said. 

The significance of an initiation is that it opens a portal of light in you, new states of conciousness and energy that would not be available to you before become available. And it excelerates one's growth profoundly. 

I would seek for initiation somewhere somehow. If not this teacher then somewhere else. In my personal experience, without initiation you're not even on a spiritual path yet. Just a dabbler. Playing in a pool with yourself. The difference it makes is the difference of a galaxy. 

[Ayham]

9 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Lol. The masters do that to show off sometimes. Nobody stabs the people for the initiation. I wouldn't worry about that lol. It will probably be a blessing and recitations like you said. 

The significance of an initiation is that it opens a portal of light in you, new states of conciousness and energy that would not be available to you before become available. And it excelerates one's growth profoundly. 

I would seek for initiation somewhere somehow. If not this teacher then somewhere else. In my personal experience, without initiation you're not even on a spiritual path yet. Just a dabbler. Playing in a pool with yourself. The difference it makes is the difference of a galaxy. 

Convincing.

I'm not sure how important or transformative the initation is, which is why I want to experience it to judge.

Thanks for the answer.

[Davino]

@Ayham Idk, I usually find initiations very useful but wouldn't risk my physical integrity for it

[Ayham]

Guys if I die don't forget me 

[Salvijus]

38 minutes ago, Ayham said:

Guys if I die don't forget me 

That's the spirit 😎 

[UnbornTao]

Could you be falling deeper into the belief rabbit hole?

Edited October 23, 2024 by UnbornTao

[Ramanujan]

@Ayhambeware of scammers and preydators

[Ayham]

7 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Falling into the belief rabbit hole?

Maybe

I just want to experience the thing for it's sake 

These guys are full of dogma but I read a lot about initation from various traditions and I'm curious about it.

[Davino]

@Ayham I consider initiation one of the few worthy things of religion. 

I've done formal initiations in various religions and I plan to keep doing it.

[Ayham]

Sufi Initiation Report 

Okay, I will summarize everything here, as if the previous post did not exist.

A few months ago, I went to a semi-retreat in northern Iraq, which has a Switzerland-level amount of nature and mountains, lol. I stayed with my family and did a vipassana/sufi mix practice there for around a week.
I had a dream of being told that Sufism was the path for me.

I came back to where I live, Baghdad, I asked around, did research, and discovered that Baghdad is home to one of the most sacred Sufi landmarks on Earth, if not the most sacred lol, which is the shrine of Abdul Qadir Al-Gilani, home to the Qadiriyya order.

I did a lot of online searching and read lots of esoteric secret books on Sufism, and I was able to find a Sufi history professor online whose focus is Sufi history, I inquired a lot from him.

Like a lot of schools of Yoga and many other spiritual traditions, most Sufis say that a "Sheikh" (the equivalent of a guru) is required, which screams bullshit to me but I decided I wanted to explore that.

So a month ago I printed a copy of Ibn Arabi's (the greatest Sufi mystic) prayer, which is supposed to elevate you and guide you into spiritual heights, as well as offer protection. I was really skeptical, but I wanted to give the thing a full try, so I went to that shrine and read the whole 15-page prayer there.
The shrine was full of Iraqis, Indians, Pakistanis, guys with big beards, Sufi masters.
Then I went to the mosque section of the shrine, I did a prayer there, then found the Sheikh there, I went and talked to him.

The conversation was mostly me acting like I am stupid and I know nothing about Sufism, and that I am curious and am here to learn from him, which made him get flowing talking, I learned some things I couldn't catch in books, then I asked him about joining a Sufi order and whatever, he then asked me 4 questions:
"Do you talk to girls romantically your age?" it is forbidden to have any form of relationship with the opposite sex in Islam unless you are married or a family member (I know insane, even schools are segregated), anyways I lied like a based person and said no (I am bitchless but I do talk to girls online and some in real life, some are very close to me)
"Do you watch porn?" I was honest and said I had quit since 3 weeks, which was true
"Do you masturbate?" I was honest and said I had quit for 3 weeks, which was also true (been experimenting with nofap).
"Do you have visions?" I told him about that vision in that semi-retreat and told him about how I used to have dreams about tomorrow when I was 7 or 6 and everything would happen just as I had dreamed.

He felt like I was sincere, he told me to come in a month, to see if I am truly sincere.

Fast forward a month of me doing my weird life

Before yesterday, I went to the shrine again, but I didn't find him, I prayed there to pass the time, and then he came, but there were guests all around him and people who loved the Sheikh so much they kissed his hands when they saw him, and yeah he didn't have time for me, then it was time for the Isha prayer, last prayer of the day in Islam, he was like "come pray with us", I was like "fine".

We did the prayer and they started a Hadra (I have only read about it I had no idea how the fuck it works), they started doing dhikr (like mantra chanting) in a large group, I went along and it was mesmerizing, but the vibe started getting intense for some reason, then suddenly I saw some guy in the back jumping in his spot apparently from feelings of divine love and ecstasy, he was an Indian with a very large Sadhguru beard and more skinny than Leo, he was literally jumping so hard and then came to the front and started kneeling to god in a very weird fashion, he looked like he was having a seizure, the actual Sheikh and normal people were just sitting doing their dhikr as if it is normal for someone to get into this state, I was getting so scared, that guy looked fucking possessed.
And to add to that, two guys in the back started shouting "Allah" like some barbarians and pointing to the sky.

I got scared because I have heard stories of Sufis doing things like body piercing, eating glass, and letting snakes with venom bite them, and nothing happens to them, they call this "Karamat" which is like supernatural stuff reserved for the people close to god, they do it as a test of how pure they are if they are pure nothing happens to them.

And I know people who have actually seen this stuff, I still don't know how it works, and apparently, as I recently understood, it is only done by the Rifai order in Iraq, this was the Qadiriyya order.
I didn't know who does this, I just knew it was a thing and I was scared if I was about to witness stuff like that, or if some guy was gonna get insane.
Nothing happened though lol.

So the Sheikh was like, you will have to come tomorrow or after tomorrow, I went after tomorrow (today).

To skip the details, bro told me that this is a serious pledge, and by taking it, I will have to fully devote myself to him and the order, if he tells me a table is black, and it is white, I believe him, if he disrespects me to test my patience, I need to not object, if he tells me something I follow, and he told me this is the case for all members, except the main Sheikh (apparently there is a bigger Sheikh who is the true spiritual head but he is too busy to do initiations), and he told me he will be like a second father to me.

I was like yeah sure I understand, but my mind was screaming (CULT ALERT, CULT ALERT, RED FLAG, RED FLAG, HELLO, HELP)
So he grabbed my hand, started reciting stuff, and told me to recite after him, and that basically got me initiated into the Qadriyya Sufi order, yippee!
He also gave me  spiritual practice, which is:
300 repetitions of "La Ilaha Ila Allah" ( there is no god but Allah) + 200 "Allah"
After every one of the 5 Islamic prayers, and a Wird (some stuff) to recite in morning and night.
This was the optimal thing, he told me if I didn't have time, I could reduce it to as much as possible but I have to always do it.

He told me I must commit, and report to him and he will guide me through spiritual levels and treat whatever impurity he sees in my heart, he told me to come tomorrow to say hi to that bigger Sheikh (who is too busy to give initiations). 

To be honest, the spiritual practice is cool, 5 prayers a day, plus these mantras which really silence the mind + feel watched by Allah during day-to-day life, and all infused with a feeling of love and devotion.

But meh, not my thing to be honest, and the whole thing was too cultish for my liking, I ain't going there ever again, but at least I am happy I had this experience and I experienced initiation.

Also, a Sufi order is like a chain of blessings, or like a chain of teachers going back to Muhammed, passing through many Saints, each order has its own saints, who are usually important historical figures or people who realized god.
So yeah I have joined the order I guess.

I don't exactly believe in all of this, just being there makes me so uneasy because of the stage blue vibes, as well as the whole religious vibe that doesn't suit me, and the initiation may or may not be useful, but I won't continue with the order at all, totally not my style.

 

Enough stage blue for now, imma go back to reading science books, learning technical skills, and working on "Success" and "Fitness" like an orange clown ( trying to integrate orange)
I have integrated blue, not just from this experience, this was only part, I did a lot more to seriously integrate blue, since it would have been very easy to develop a shadow for it and hate on my culture.
 

In terms of spiritual practice:
Kriya yoga, I couldn't stick to it because I started with a large routine immediately lol, imma build up very slowly, + self-inquiry in the after state of Kriya + using Sufi principles of love and devotion.

and just focus on stage orange!

Conclusion 

I joined a cult for fun, was an interesting experience  
(just kidding I am not going back there lol)

 

 

Tagging Those Who Might Be Interested

@Salvijus @toasty7718 @Leo Gura @Davino @Ramanujan

Edited October 21, 2024 by Ayham

[Salvijus]

11 hours ago, Ayham said:

Sufi Initiation Report 

Okay, I will summarize everything here, as if the previous post did not exist.

A few months ago, I went to a semi-retreat in northern Iraq, which has a Switzerland-level amount of nature and mountains, lol. I stayed with my family and did a vipassana/sufi mix practice there for around a week.
I had a dream of being told that Sufism was the path for me.

I came back to where I live, Baghdad, I asked around, did research, and discovered that Baghdad is home to one of the most sacred Sufi landmarks on Earth, if not the most sacred lol, which is the shrine of Abdul Qadir Al-Gilani, home to the Qadiriyya order.

I did a lot of online searching and read lots of esoteric secret books on Sufism, and I was able to find a Sufi history professor online whose focus is Sufi history, I inquired a lot from him.

Like a lot of schools of Yoga and many other spiritual traditions, most Sufis say that a "Sheikh" (the equivalent of a guru) is required, which screams bullshit to me but I decided I wanted to explore that.

So a month ago I printed a copy of Ibn Arabi's (the greatest Sufi mystic) prayer, which is supposed to elevate you and guide you into spiritual heights, as well as offer protection. I was really skeptical, but I wanted to give the thing a full try, so I went to that shrine and read the whole 15-page prayer there.
The shrine was full of Iraqis, Indians, Pakistanis, guys with big beards, Sufi masters.
Then I went to the mosque section of the shrine, I did a prayer there, then found the Sheikh there, I went and talked to him.

The conversation was mostly me acting like I am stupid and I know nothing about Sufism, and that I am curious and am here to learn from him, which made him get flowing talking, I learned some things I couldn't catch in books, then I asked him about joining a Sufi order and whatever, he then asked me 4 questions:
"Do you talk to girls romantically your age?" it is forbidden to have any form of relationship with the opposite sex in Islam unless you are married or a family member (I know insane, even schools are segregated), anyways I lied like a based person and said no (I am bitchless but I do talk to girls online and some in real life, some are very close to me)
"Do you watch porn?" I was honest and said I had quit since 3 weeks, which was true
"Do you masturbate?" I was honest and said I had quit for 3 weeks, which was also true (been experimenting with nofap).
"Do you have visions?" I told him about that vision in that semi-retreat and told him about how I used to have dreams about tomorrow when I was 7 or 6 and everything would happen just as I had dreamed.

He felt like I was sincere, he told me to come in a month, to see if I am truly sincere.

Fast forward a month of me doing my weird life

Before yesterday, I went to the shrine again, but I didn't find him, I prayed there to pass the time, and then he came, but there were guests all around him and people who loved the Sheikh so much they kissed his hands when they saw him, and yeah he didn't have time for me, then it was time for the Isha prayer, last prayer of the day in Islam, he was like "come pray with us", I was like "fine".

We did the prayer and they started a Hadra (I have only read about it I had no idea how the fuck it works), they started doing dhikr (like mantra chanting) in a large group, I went along and it was mesmerizing, but the vibe started getting intense for some reason, then suddenly I saw some guy in the back jumping in his spot apparently from feelings of divine love and ecstasy, he was an Indian with a very large Sadhguru beard and more skinny than Leo, he was literally jumping so hard and then came to the front and started kneeling to god in a very weird fashion, he looked like he was having a seizure, the actual Sheikh and normal people were just sitting doing their dhikr as if it is normal for someone to get into this state, I was getting so scared, that guy looked fucking possessed.
And to add to that, two guys in the back started shouting "Allah" like some barbarians and pointing to the sky.

I got scared because I have heard stories of Sufis doing things like body piercing, eating glass, and letting snakes with venom bite them, and nothing happens to them, they call this "Karamat" which is like supernatural stuff reserved for the people close to god, they do it as a test of how pure they are if they are pure nothing happens to them.

And I know people who have actually seen this stuff, I still don't know how it works, and apparently, as I recently understood, it is only done by the Rifai order in Iraq, this was the Qadiriyya order.
I didn't know who does this, I just knew it was a thing and I was scared if I was about to witness stuff like that, or if some guy was gonna get insane.
Nothing happened though lol.

So the Sheikh was like, you will have to come tomorrow or after tomorrow, I went after tomorrow (today).

To skip the details, bro told me that this is a serious pledge, and by taking it, I will have to fully devote myself to him and the order, if he tells me a table is black, and it is white, I believe him, if he disrespects me to test my patience, I need to not object, if he tells me something I follow, and he told me this is the case for all members, except the main Sheikh (apparently there is a bigger Sheikh who is the true spiritual head but he is too busy to do initiations), and he told me he will be like a second father to me.

I was like yeah sure I understand, but my mind was screaming (CULT ALERT, CULT ALERT, RED FLAG, RED FLAG, HELLO, HELP)
So he grabbed my hand, started reciting stuff, and told me to recite after him, and that basically got me initiated into the Qadriyya Sufi order, yippee!
He also gave me  spiritual practice, which is:
300 repetitions of "La Ilaha Ila Allah" ( there is no god but Allah) + 200 "Allah"
After every one of the 5 Islamic prayers, and a Wird (some stuff) to recite in morning and night.
This was the optimal thing, he told me if I didn't have time, I could reduce it to as much as possible but I have to always do it.

He told me I must commit, and report to him and he will guide me through spiritual levels and treat whatever impurity he sees in my heart, he told me to come tomorrow to say hi to that bigger Sheikh (who is too busy to give initiations). 

To be honest, the spiritual practice is cool, 5 prayers a day, plus these mantras which really silence the mind + feel watched by Allah during day-to-day life, and all infused with a feeling of love and devotion.

But meh, not my thing to be honest, and the whole thing was too cultish for my liking, I ain't going there ever again, but at least I am happy I had this experience and I experienced initiation.

Also, a Sufi order is like a chain of blessings, or like a chain of teachers going back to Muhammed, passing through many Saints, each order has its own saints, who are usually important historical figures or people who realized god.
So yeah I have joined the order I guess.

I don't exactly believe in all of this, just being there makes me so uneasy because of the stage blue vibes, as well as the whole religious vibe that doesn't suit me, and the initiation may or may not be useful, but I won't continue with the order at all, totally not my style.

 

Enough stage blue for now, imma go back to reading science books, learning technical skills, and working on "Success" and "Fitness" like an orange clown ( trying to integrate orange)
I have integrated blue, not just from this experience, this was only part, I did a lot more to seriously integrate blue, since it would have been very easy to develop a shadow for it and hate on my culture.
 

In terms of spiritual practice:
Kriya yoga, I couldn't stick to it because I started with a large routine immediately lol, imma build up very slowly, + self-inquiry in the after state of Kriya + using Sufi principles of love and devotion.

and just focus on stage orange!

Conclusion 

I joined a cult for fun, was an interesting experience  
(just kidding I am not going back there lol)

 

 

Tagging Those Who Might Be Interested

@Salvijus @toasty7718 @Leo Gura @Davino @Ramanujan

Hmm, very interesting read. 

I wonder why he chose to step on your toes so hard and if he was concious enough to feel the internal conflict within you. Or if he's just playing by the book. 

Well at least you're still alive, so that's good

I think your feelings towards the group might change after the initial backlash. Hard to say, I'm kinda curious myself now how concious that guy was and if he's really worth engaging in because his ways are quite old fashioned and traditional whereas modern people have a different psychology and require a different approach but anyways... Meeting the head Sheikh would've been a nice experience tho, maybe he can levitate or smth . But at least you got the main thing. Did you notice any change in your practice? 

Edited October 22, 2024 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

12 hours ago, Ayham said:

I have heard stories of Sufis doing things like body piercing, eating glass, and letting snakes with venom bite them, and nothing happens to them, they call this "Karamat" which is like supernatural stuff reserved for the people close to god, they do it as a test of how pure they are if they are pure nothing happens to them.

I thought I'd share a similar account told by Swami Yogananda. 

 

I met Hamid Bey, with his good friend, Dr. Hereward Carrington, in Buffalo recently. I was quite impressed with the beautiful spiritual gleam in Mr. Bey’s eyes. I sang the song, “O God Beautiful!” for him. Ever since then he has been singing it.

Hamid Bey is an Egyptian from the Soudan, famous land of sheiks. He was reared under an austere mystical training, and the feats he performs are a part of the religious rites of his sect.

Mr. Bey showed me that by touching anyone’s wrist he could divine his thoughts. Each thought has a certain vibration and by contact with the pulse of the person thinking the thought. Mr. Bey receives the same vibration and consequently thinks the same thought. Later, he demonstrated to me his method of physical trance, in which he fell into my hands, breathless and almost lifeless. The stethoscope revealed that his heart-beat, at first fast, slowed down to an intermittent beat, and then got very slow.

Mr. Bey can remain underground, buried for twenty-four hours, sealed in an air-tight casket, and can hold a thousand pounds on his chest. He controls his pulse at will–its beats appeared and completely disappeared at his will. He also pierces his body with long needles without bloodshed. The marks, almost instantaneously disappeared after the needles were withdrawn. He thrusts these needles into his throat, cheeks, and tongue without pain. He can produce blood from one puncture and withhold blood from another. Most of these things he performed right in front of me. In the various cities where he visits he often gives demonstrations before gatherings of eminent physicians and surgeons. In New York City he submitted to burial for three hours. On this occasion his body was sealed in a casket and placed six feet underground. The doctors who were present admitted that they could not explain the feat other than by Hamid Bey’s declaration that by self-imposed catalepsy, he renders his body almost lifeless.

Passing needles through his cheeks and certain other of Mr. Bey’s feats are performed, after long practice, by manipulating glands of the throat and by pressing certain nerves on the head. These are very interesting physiological phenomena showing that man can control the functions of the heart and all other organs of involuntary action. This is known to Hindu Yogis and Swamis who practice Yoga as well as to mystics of other sects.

Of course, it must be remembered that without love of God and without wisdom, such control and feats are just physiological jugglery and a detriment to spiritual realization. But Hamid Bey loves God, and he tells me he loves Him more and more since he heard the song, “O God Beautiful.”

He has a good wife. “I often wake up in the night, sit upright, rebuke sleep away, and talk to Him,” he told me. “At first my wife did not understand to whom I talked. But now she does, and we both love ‘God Beautiful.'” O, how I love to hear him say that! I told him to tell everyone wherever he goes, that prayer without love of God is meaningless, and that people should talk to God every night when no one is watching or listening. That is a sure way to know God easily. Otherwise, a thousand shows of prayer will fail to accomplish any spiritual result.

I told Mr. Bey to produce trance by love of God, rather than merely by glandular pressure, as results produced by devotion are safer and greater. Generally, it takes another person to arouse Mr. Bey from his trance. But, in the conscious trance of devotion, or Yoga, one never loses consciousness, but transcends the material consciousness and comes back to consciousness of matter at will again. That is the conscious communion with God that Yogoda aspires to teach.

Mr. Bey can put small animals and sometimes certain types of men into the cataleptic state. Medical science as well as metaphysical science should investigate the results and possibilities for usefulness of such phenomena.

Edited October 22, 2024 by Salvijus

[Ayham]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I met Hamid Bey, with his good friend, Dr. Hereward Carrington, in Buffalo recently. I was quite impressed with the beautiful spiritual gleam in Mr. Bey’s eyes. I sang the song, “O God Beautiful!” for him. Ever since then he has been singing it.

 

That's an Arabic name!

Quote

Hamid Bey is an Egyptian from the Soudan, famous land of sheiks. He was reared under an austere mystical training, and the feats he performs are a part of the religious rites of his sect.

oh okay

 

8 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Mr. Bey showed me that by touching anyone’s wrist he could divine his thoughts. Each thought has a certain vibration and by contact with the pulse of the person thinking the thought. Mr. Bey receives the same vibration and consequently thinks the same thought. Later, he demonstrated to me his method of physical trance, in which he fell into my hands, breathless and almost lifeless. The stethoscope revealed that his heart-beat, at first fast, slowed down to an intermittent beat, and then got very slow.

Mr. Bey can remain underground, buried for twenty-four hours, sealed in an air-tight casket, and can hold a thousand pounds on his chest. He controls his pulse at will–its beats appeared and completely disappeared at his will. He also pierces his body with long needles without bloodshed. The marks, almost instantaneously disappeared after the needles were withdrawn. He thrusts these needles into his throat, cheeks, and tongue without pain. He can produce blood from one puncture and withhold blood from another. Most of these things he performed right in front of me. In the various cities where he visits he often gives demonstrations before gatherings of eminent physicians and surgeons. In New York City he submitted to burial for three hours. On this occasion his body was sealed in a casket and placed six feet underground. The doctors who were present admitted that they could not explain the feat other than by Hamid Bey’s declaration that by self-imposed catalepsy, he renders his body almost lifeless.

Passing needles through his cheeks and certain other of Mr. Bey’s feats are performed, after long practice, by manipulating glands of the throat and by pressing certain nerves on the head. These are very interesting physiological phenomena showing that man can control the functions of the heart and all other organs of involuntary action. This is known to Hindu Yogis and Swamis who practice Yoga as well as to mystics of other sects.

Of course, it must be remembered that without love of God and without wisdom, such control and feats are just physiological jugglery and a detriment to spiritual realization. But Hamid Bey loves God, and he tells me he loves Him more and more since he heard the song, “O God Beautiful.”

He has a good wife. “I often wake up in the night, sit upright, rebuke sleep away, and talk to Him,” he told me. “At first my wife did not understand to whom I talked. But now she does, and we both love ‘God Beautiful.'” O, how I love to hear him say that! I told him to tell everyone wherever he goes, that prayer without love of God is meaningless, and that people should talk to God every night when no one is watching or listening. That is a sure way to know God easily. Otherwise, a thousand shows of prayer will fail to accomplish any spiritual result.

I told Mr. Bey to produce trance by love of God, rather than merely by glandular pressure, as results produced by devotion are safer and greater. Generally, it takes another person to arouse Mr. Bey from his trance. But, in the conscious trance of devotion, or Yoga, one never loses consciousness, but transcends the material consciousness and comes back to consciousness of matter at will again. That is the conscious communion with God that Yogoda aspires to teach

Damn it is quite insane how these stuff work, the Sufis also put needles through their cheeks or put some swords in their bellies, some Buddhist monks literally burn themselves alive without any reaction.

Mr. Bey sounds like a pretty cool mystic, thanks for sharing that account;.

[Ayham]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Hmm, very interesting read. 

I wonder why he chose to step on your toes so hard and if he was concious enough to feel the internal conflict within you. Or if he's just playing by the book. 

Well at least you're still alive, so that's good

I think your feelings towards the group might change after the initial backlash. Hard to say, I'm kinda curious myself now how concious that guy was and if he's really worth engaging in because his ways are quite old fashioned and traditional whereas modern people have a different psychology and require a different approach but anyways... Meeting the head Sheikh would've been a nice experience tho, maybe he can levitate or smth . But at least you got the main thing. Did you notice any change in your practice? 

I did see the Main Sheikh at the very first and I thought he was secondary, he looked more guru like I suppose, and looked very serious.

My feelings about the group may change but I am not really a group person much, his ways are old fashioned yes, he seemed also very traditional about life, like he was living in a bubble of his culture and can't really imagine what's beyond it.
I feel a sense of commitment to my practice, much stronger commitment, too early to judge results though.

The whole thing was a nice memory and experience, I liked it. 

[Salvijus]

Hm 🌟

[Davino]

On 21/10/2024 at 8:55 PM, Ayham said:

But meh, not my thing to be honest, and the whole thing was too cultish for my liking, I ain't going there ever again, but at least I am happy I had this experience and I experienced initiation.

Also, a Sufi order is like a chain of blessings, or like a chain of teachers going back to Muhammed, passing through many Saints, each order has its own saints, who are usually important historical figures or people who realized god.
So yeah I have joined the order I guess.

Yep, that's my attitude

You are the type of person that gets it from the right context. From this understanding, initiations are very benefitial

[Nemra]

The truth is that you want to have religious experience, which is very different than spiritual experience and doesn't even come close to it.

From my perspective, it's basically a hypnosis to create the effect of a spiritual experience based on a bunch of dogmas.

What's deceptive about it is that it convinces people that they're having a spiritual experience.

Edited October 23, 2024 by Nemra

[Ayham]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

Yep, that's my attitude

You are the type of person that gets it from the right context. From this understanding, initiations are very benefitial

Yes, I can see how it can be very dangerous for someone who is not aware of how cults work.
The whole thing can also be useful for a stage blue person, but it won't be for someone who is aware of the stages, it cuts through the bullshit.

I am just happy because, it felt like a video game adventure side quest, the whole thing was exciting and an exploration for me.

21 minutes ago, Nemra said:

The truth is that you want to have religious experience, which is very different than spiritual experience and doesn't even come close to it.

From my perspective, it's basically a hypnosis to create the effect of a spiritual experience based on a bunch of dogmas.

What's deceptive about it is that it convinces people that they're having a spiritual experience.

Good point, I do agree that it is a form of hypnosis, it might work on people who are stage blue, and they might actually be able to induce spiritual experiences, but they would still be sheep.

I don't want to have a religious experience, I was just curious because I read about transmission/Initiation in various spiritual traditions, like various schools of Yoga, Sufism, some forms of Buddhism.
So I was like: hmm, I have a good opportunity to try that.

But yeah it was total bullshit.