My Current Understanding of Mind - Comments Appreciated

[Sincerity]

Introduction

I want to share my current understanding of mind, the dynamics of it and what I am in relation to it. Your comments (educated & relating to the topic) would be greatly appreciated.

Context

I have not taken psychedelics for a year now. My understanding has changed a lot in this year and it has been born from observing and interacting with myself. I haven't really heard people talk about this understanding I will lay out here. I haven't been watching or reading any spiritual teachings or anything of that kind lately (they disgust me). 

The Understanding

In my mind there is an interplay of forces/energies/selves. A full, inner universe with each force/energy/self being separate and unique. This universe cannot be called a society or hivemind (terms I contemplated) because they are not cohesive, they don't work in unison, they just ARE. These energies are mostly very primal and non-complex, representing mostly single sides/characteristics of what you could perhaps call the inner symbolic/archetypal universe. There's (probably) an infinity of them. They cannot be killed, all of them are alive always, but some are significantly more active at times while others are more asleep.

Every thought is a work of some energy. In fact my claim is you could have a vision of an energy behind ANY thought. Or perhaps this is unique to me and I'm more visionary than others, I dunno - but I can take any thought and visually see an "entity" behind it of some sort. Some of them are dark and devilish, some are more angelic, some are relatively normal. This is not just a theory, I can replicate this almost always in my mind. Or, if you're not particularly visionary, if you want to get a sense of them you can pick a particular energy and intent to have a dialogue with them audibly in the mind (which I very often do). You will sense their distinctness, otherness, their boundaries, ego.

What happens in this inner universe dictates what you do in reality. Behind every action is an energy. And the energy that is currently strongest is what entirely dominates the current moment. Two energies cannot dominate the now at the same time. The winner energy takes it all - in the moment.

Anything you're currently doing - YOU did NOT "choose" that. An energy arose that felt an attraction to do what you're doing. You perhaps hesitated for a while (a resisting energy of some sort was stronger) or not (you are open to this energy and it can take you over almost whenever) and once this energy took you, you did and are now doing what you're doing (reading this).

YOU DO NOT CHOOSE ACTIONS. You are open to energies or resist them. And you certainly do NOT choose energies. Even a "choice" to choose some other energy would be an energy itself. And also a resistance to an energy would be an arising energy itself. Any thought/choice/action is ALWAYS an energy and you basically have no power over them, you can't change them.

So basically we're helpless victims, right? We just can't do shit, we are doomed and life sucks, correct?

No. See, this is where it gets a bit weird and paradoxical, at least for me. If you believe you have no power (which is kinda true), you will be overtaken with energies of helplessness, victimhood and that's what you will become in life. BUT if you believe you DO have power you will be more engaged with energies of personal responsibility, taking action, better self-esteem, all that good stuff. So in a sense if you believe you do have power it becomes true. And if you believe you don't - that becomes true. 

So actually it doesn't matter what you believe and there is no "objective" truth about you. Or, thinking about this a bit differently, what you believe BECOMES the objective truth about you.

Belief could be described as an unconscious blockage/partial openness to some energy. Once you see the unconsciousness/unwholeness of an openness (see that it actually doesn't matter and you could believe the opposite and IT WOULD BE JUST AS TRUE), it disappears and that energy doesn't overtake you anymore. See, in order for an energy to overtake you, you have to believe in it! Or, differently: you have to be unconsciously clinging to one part and reject the opposite. ALL BELIEF IS PARTIAL. ALL BELIEF IS UNCONSCIOUS. And once the belief becomes conscious/you accept its second just-as-true side, it is not a belief anymore. Unconsciousness ceases to be with consciousness. An avenue/blockage for an energy is closed.

So this is why you get raped by energies of helplessness, unworthiness, negativity, idiotic pride, fear, shame, all that stuff. Your beliefs are shit. And these shit beliefs let in shit energies. You are unconscious of it. But it doesn't have to be this way.

How to fix beliefs and stop being susceptible to unwanted energies? It's quite simple actually. You just have to convince yourself otherwise, or rather: see fully the other side of the argument. You might remember I mentioned having a dialogue with energies before. This is an excellent way to reconcile "your" side (some energy) and the other side (some other energy) that IS inside of you, but you just haven't been letting in. Here's what I usually do: I sit with a notebook and write at the top: I AM LISTENING. Then very quickly some thoughts arise that would just LOVE to be questioned, to be killed, given attention. And so I talk to myself for an hour or two. At the beginning I ask the energy for its name and I ask to see it (that's not necessary though). Almost always these conversations reconcile something in me and my behaviour in actual reality CHANGES, because my beliefs have been changed. The energies have reconciled, or perhaps you could say they disappeared when they merged with their opposites.

So what is mind? I guess I could describe it as an inner universe. The mind is not a place for these energies, the mind IS these energies - once it becomes them. The mind is all of them combined and could be seen as an entity. What this entity does in the end is the result of what energy was strongest in the given moment. What this entity does is what others consider "you" doing.

But then... what is "you"?

In a sense you are the god of this inner universe. You can observe it. You are the attention from above, crazily intertwined with this full inner universe. You can see it as "you", yet know that you're not of it!

In a weird way, it feels like you can intervene in that inner universe's outcome at times. The main technique for this would be prayer. But how does the action of prayer come about? It must be some energy which you don't control begging to come through.

So you and this universe are this one intertwined organism. With no agency, yet also with all the agency. Influenceable, yet impossible to be directly influenced. Changing, yet unchangeable. Whole, yet expanding.

Conclusion & Ending Words

My understanding is obviously very incomplete. I don't understand reality. I don't know what's in front of me. I am not really self-aware. But that will come I'm sure. One day, one conversation, one attentive glance at a time... just wanted to share this out.

I have this funny thought: in the same way there's a universe in me and I'm sort of above it (yet it), what if I am also a single energy part of another infinite universe with a supreme god observing that universe. I wonder, would that god even be aware of me, or would they be unconscious of me in the same way I am so unconscious of energies in me?  Curious to think about haha.

I'm very happy to hear your related & educated feedback/comments. But if you don't have anything valuable to comment and you want to just be a bullshitter/clown/know-it-all mental masturbator, please spare me, I don't want to hear from you. I will delete your useless posts. Thanks in advance.

Edited October 19 by Sincerity

[Arthogaan]

49 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

So you and this universe are this one intertwined organism. With no agency, yet also with all the agency. Influenceable, yet impossible to be directly influenced. Changing, yet unchangeable. Whole, yet expanding.

Beautifully put! Golden paradoxes.

This is all very close to my experience.

4 comments that came to mind:

1. I like the word hive mind because I see a hive of bees, and sometimes bees fly into each other, and sometimes there is chaos and lack of unison (for example when a human will spray them with some shit, that could be a good metaphor for a destructive behaviour) but sometimes there is union and highest inteligence.

2. It seems like even "choosing" to see it as archetypal energies/embodying entities is some sort of archetypical point of view at play. But you can choose/be under the influence of archetype of deconstruction when you can see all as just empty sensations without any archetypes. Kind of like archetypes/constructs of seeing a world as christian mystic talking with ghosts vs archetype of Buddha seeing just the sensations in eternal ever changing flux. So even thinking and perceiving archetypes is already being performed by some kind of archetype.

3. And I think point 2. nicely explains that you can feel into God-Realization archetype or No-Self archetype, or whatever. It's all archetypal/reality/soup unfolding.

4. This archetypes of total surrender being at the mercy of archetypes mixing vs archetype of agency and choosing archetypes deliberately - this shit is the most paradoxical weird, unsettling, empowering, taking power away shit ever. I love it and i hate it. I can't wrap my head around it. Or sometimes I can, but then I don't and I have no control...until I have.... Bruh.

 

Lovely post! 

[Sincerity]

@Arthogaan 😘

[Sincerity]

So no other comments?

C'mon! I'm curious what you think, whether you agree or fundamentally disagree with something here, etc.

[Arthogaan]

[VeganAwake]

The overthinking mind really isn't complex. It's just a reaction to a reaction to a reaction....its main theme is survival. 

It can be called energy if you like!

All the seemingly complex differences are just stories concocted from itself.

It's been conditioned since birth and is extremely bias.....definitely not trust worthy lol.....but hey, what can be done about that?

❤️ 

[theleelajoker]

@Sincerity

Few comments below.  Obviously I don't know anything as well but it's my current understanding of how certain things work. I see parallels to your ideas and Stanislav Grovs work ("Cosmic Game - Borders of Human Consciousness"). Maybe it won't disgust you - who knows what your energy will say ; )

General Context:

• I also believe there are archetypal energies. They just are and they want to be expressed.
• I like your "one thought / one energy is dominant in each moment"
• I like your "you do not choose actions". Yeah, actions are just the "means to an end", and the end is some kind of energy.
• For me: First there is the energy, the energy then get's translated into a desire, an intention and (finally) an action. Sometimes the translation is a thought that becomes conscious ("oh what about doing this or that") and sometimes it's translated directly into action before my thoughts and intentions become noticeable for me. Then I am like "OK this just happened"
• Sometimes I clearly can identify feel like "ok now I need male energy" (meeting with male friends), sometimes I feel like female energy (spending time with sister, gf).  Sometimes it's only afterwards "OK I did not know but I really needed that"
• The more I progress in my life, the more sensitive I get re energies, noticing them, feeling them, intuit them.  It's not as easy within myself, more easy with others. Sometimes I stand next to a person and I cannot but notice their energy, their vibe.

Re Choice:

• Sometimes I wonder if the only free choice we have is the choice to resist or not to resist the urge of the energy to express itself
• Sometimes I think the only choice we have is HOW we express the energy. For instance, if I feel (mentally or physically) aggressive, then I can start a fight with someone and (unintentionally) hurt this person. Or I go to sports, express the aggression playfully in consent with my opponent. Or looking at the BDSM scene, I think this is another part where aggression can be expressed playfully, ideally with someone that has the submissive energy within that wants to be expressed (win-win )

How to deal with it:

• Gaining control by letting go of control - yeah.
• Gaining agency to get out of victimmode - yeah. In an ideal scenario, it's like seeing myself as a partner of this energy: "OK, you want to do that - let's make it easy for both of us! I accept your need to be expressed, but let's see how we do that best, shall we?" (much easier said than done )
• Your process of writing and getting into an dialog, changing believes makes sense to me; sounds like shadow work and reducing blockages / limiting believes that are in the way of expressing sth
• My recommedation: Watch out not to focus on mind, believes and thoughts only. IMO, the body stores engery / blockages and you need to speak the language of the body (stretching, sports, massage, walking, touching, cuddling, sex...) , combining this with everything that is language as in words and thoughts

Conclusion:

Quote

But then... what is "you"?

In a sense you are the god of this inner universe. You can observe it. You are the attention from above, crazily intertwined with this full inner universe. You can see it as "you", yet know that you're not of it!

In a weird way, it feels like you can intervene in that inner universe's outcome at times. The main technique for this would be prayer. But how does the action of prayer come about? It must be some energy which you don't control begging to come through.

So you and this universe are this one intertwined organism. With no agency, yet also with all the agency. Influenceable, yet impossible to be directly influenced. Changing, yet unchangeable. Whole, yet expanding.

Yeah....at this moment, don't really have anything of value to add to this to be honest. Simply don't know.

Edited October 21 by theleelajoker

[Arthogaan]

16 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's just a reaction to a reaction to a reaction....its main theme is survival. 

Yeaah but like in nature you can divide it for example into 4 elements. For the relative fun of playing with it.

And you could say, yeaah there is no elements, there is only flow of reality morhping into different patterns. 

But still there is something interesting that makes fire a different archetype than water. 

The same with mind. Yeah. It's just reactions to reactions. But those reactions can have different tastes.

So @Sincerity kind of says, you know guys this is how the soup works, it can have different tastes, you kinda choose the taste but not really and so on. And @VeganAwake comes and says you know what guys, soup is not complex, its just flow of atoms/consciousness. Well yeah. Thats true. But soup has different patterns and tastes and they interact and thats also true. But good to have you at the dinner table.

 

@Water by the River whats your intuition about this? Makes me think of Rob Burbea's work.

Edited October 21 by Arthogaan

[Schizophonia]

On 10/19/2024 at 11:38 AM, Arthogaan said:

Joe Dispenza accepts the challenge*

[Arthogaan]

4 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Joe Dispenza accepts the challenge*

I assume you mean the LOA stuff.

yeah, but even believing LOA works is a certain construct/archetype.

And then when you even decide what you apparently want to attract who is the One choosing? The thought/vison just comes to you, you did not think it. You are already "under the influence" of an archetype while "manifesting".

[Schizophonia]

2 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

I assume you mean the LOA stuff.

In part

2 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

yeah, but even believing LOA works is a certain construct/archetype.

And then when you even decide what you apparently want to attract who is the One choosing? The thought/vison just comes to you, you did not think it. You are already "under the influence" of an archetype while "manifesting".

Yes you're right, but what is the problem ?

[Arthogaan]

5 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

In part

Yes you're right, but what is the problem ?

No problem sir.

Unless someone will be under the influence of Problematic-Archetype, but that's his problem. So no problem. 

[Breakingthewall]

As I see, the psyche must dissapear. The psyche is just a mental bubble of energy in the form of though and emotion that separate yourself form yoursel, the reality, creating a self. That self must stop. Free will, no free will, is the same, the thing is the openess. What you want is the openess, because In you it's everything. This experience is a vibration of the infinity, right now the total absolute infinity is unfolding in you. You are everything, then you want to open yourself and breathe the totality . You can do in some moments and much others you are in the developing of your movement and just move with it. Then the mental thing enter in a mode: choose the best possibility any moment.all the push is in that direction, then the psyche is unnecessary 

Edited October 21 by Breakingthewall

[Keryo Koffa]

Most on this forum are pure "empty"/"absolute" Non-Dulaity focused, so I'm fond to hear about your psychic Awakening. I like your descriptions and mentions of "prayer", the "intertwined organism", being "whole, yet expanding", having "no agency, yet also with all the agency" and having the "energies reconcile, disappearing by merging with their opposites", the universe being full of energy forms tuned between and actualized into experience, not unlike our very bodies, that seemingly autonomously coordinate internally emerging complexity.

I myself am constantly grappling with the nature of consciousness and how it generates reality.
Everything is a form, energy, and movement intricately linked with your conscious experience.
The same consciousness that feels its own agency through you forms all life "outside" as well.
And there is much outside awareness from which new experiences spring, subconscious also.
I've had very powerful synchronicity awakenings some months ago, everything is coordinated.
Reality is a projection of the internal psychic structure that believes/perceives it into existence.

• Reading your experience reminded me of many connections:
  • Jung - Collective Unconscious, Shadow Work, Individuation, Archetypes
  • Seth - Multi-Dimensional Existence, Beliefs shape Reality, The Inner Self
  • Leo - Infinity of Gods, Awareness alone is Curative, Everything is Mind
  • Terrance McKenna - Novelty Theory, DMT Hyperspace, Entities
  • ThirdEyeTyrone (YouTube) - Realm of Forbidden Thought
  • SD Purple - Shamans, Rituals move Energy, Life Force
  • NDEs - Astral Realm, Telepathic Communication

"God is more than the sum of all personalities and yet all personalities are what he is. There is constant creation. There is within you a force that knew how to grow you from a fetus to a grown adult. This force is part of the innate knowledge within all consciousness and is a part of the God within you. You form your dreams and you form your own physical reality. The world is what you are. It is the physical materialization of the inner selves that have formed it." - Seth

Edited October 21 by Keryo Koffa

[Davino]

@Sincerity I enjoyed very much reading your post. I got value from it.

I wouldn't like to interfere with your process, so just would like to point where I think you should further inquiry.

Contemplate on the nature of Attention and it's workings within the human mind. I felt your exposition was weak and it lacked the proper assessment of what I consider the main tool of the mind, Attention. Concentration/Relaxation as a property of the mind, contraction/expansion, just to give different pointers.

I would also have loved to square the human "I" in your system. I felt it wasn't properly assessed. There is such property in the mind which is the root "I" the cognition of individuality and it may be the source of all those energies and the bridge between the conscious and unconscious mind. Deep inner psychology, self-understanding and introspection are effective tools to contemplate the workings of the human I and its properties.

Overall, grateful to learn your system of cognition. Have a nice day

[Sincerity]

@theleelajoker Bravo. A man who observes himself.  It is evident from your words. Huge respect for you!

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

• For me: First there is the energy, the energy then get's translated into a desire, an intention and (finally) an action. Sometimes the translation is a thought that becomes conscious ("oh what about doing this or that") and sometimes it's translated directly into action before my thoughts and intentions become noticeable for me. Then I am like "OK this just happened"

Perfect. You have good observation skills. I especially agree with the second sentence. In regard to translation into desire and intention - hmm, I never considered the split into desire and intention, I currently just see it as energy --> openness / blockage --> action or no action.

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

• Sometimes I clearly can identify feel like "ok now I need male energy" (meeting with male friends), sometimes I feel like female energy (spending time with sister, gf).  Sometimes it's only afterwards "OK I did not know but I really needed that"
• The more I progress in my life, the more sensitive I get re energies, noticing them, feeling them, intuit them.  It's not as easy within myself, more easy with others. Sometimes I stand next to a person and I cannot but notice their energy, their vibe.

Awesome. 

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Re Choice:

• Sometimes I wonder if the only free choice we have is the choice to resist or not to resist the urge of the energy to express itself
• Sometimes I think the only choice we have is HOW we express the energy. For instance, if I feel (mentally or physically) aggressive, then I can start a fight with someone and (unintentionally) hurt this person. Or I go to sports, express the aggression playfully in consent with my opponent. Or looking at the BDSM scene, I think this is another part where aggression can be expressed playfully, ideally with someone that has the submissive energy within that wants to be expressed (win-win )

Great insights! I definitely agree with the first point and with the second point as well, though I think I actually haven't integrated the second one that much. I see it's true though. I have to look into it more.

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

• Gaining agency to get out of victimmode - yeah. In an ideal scenario, it's like seeing myself as a partner of this energy: "OK, you want to do that - let's make it easy for both of us! I accept your need to be expressed, but let's see how we do that best, shall we?" (much easier said than done )

Cool perspective!

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

• My recommedation: Watch out not to focus on mind, believes and thoughts only. IMO, the body stores engery / blockages and you need to speak the language of the body (stretching, sports, massage, walking, touching, cuddling, sex...) , combining this with everything that is language as in words and thoughts

This I definitely don't embody yet but I know you're right. I want to embody this and most likely will soon since I'm starting martial arts training this week, still though, will require more conversations and actions, changes in behaviour, etc.. This is very important for me to integrate.

Thanks a lot for sharing your wisdom. Would love to get a beer with you sometime. 

[Sincerity]

@Arthogaan

2 hours ago, Arthogaan said:

Yeaah but like in nature you can divide it for example into 4 elements. For the relative fun of playing with it.

And you could say, yeaah there is no elements, there is only flow of reality morhping into different patterns. 

But still there is something interesting that makes fire a different archetype than water. 

The same with mind. Yeah. It's just reactions to reactions. But those reactions can have different tastes.

So @Sincerity kind of says, you know guys this is how the soup works, it can have different tastes, you kinda choose the taste but not really and so on. And @VeganAwake comes and says you know what guys, soup is not complex, its just flow of atoms/consciousness. Well yeah. Thats true. But soup has different patterns and tastes and they interact and thats also true. But good to have you at the dinner table.

Good stuff  Agree!

@Keryo Koffa Thanks for your input - I found it valuable! Very cool that you brought up the connections, it's nice to hear what my insights remind others of. I looked into Jung a bit in the past, Leo obviously, read a bit about NDEs - not familiar with the other ones though. And the quote is good!

@Davino

48 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Sincerity I enjoyed very much reading your post. I got value from it.

I wouldn't like to interfere with your process, so just would like to point where I think you should further inquiry.

Contemplate on the nature of Attention and it's workings within the human mind. I felt your exposition was weak and it lacked the proper assessment of what I consider the main tool of the mind, Attention. Concentration/Relaxation as a property of the mind, contraction/expansion, just to give different pointers.

I would also have loved to square the human "I" in your system. I felt it wasn't properly assessed. There is such property in the mind which is the root "I" the cognition of individuality and it may be the source of all those energies and the bridge between the conscious and unconscious mind. Deep inner psychology, self-understanding and introspection are effective tools to contemplate the workings of the human I and its properties.

Overall, grateful to learn your system of cognition. Have a nice day

You most likely couldn't "interfere" even if you wanted to  Can we really interfere with others? By which I mean A) spawning something (an energy) in them that wasn't there before or killing an energy that already is? No. Or perhaps B) pulling up/diminishing an energy that is already there? Sounds more doable, but to me also no. In my view energetic change is ALWAYS voluntary. No one can ACTUALLY influence you.

If you have an entirely different understanding, by all means, feel free to share it (regarding the dynamics of mind) and I'll def consider it.  If it sparks a fear in me - good. That means there's something there worth looking into.

But besides that, I REALLY appreciate your 2 main points regarding me contemplating on attention and the I. Thanks a lot for the input, rings true for sure. There is a hole in my understanding regarding these "two" and if I'm to be honest, the understanding of I/attention in my original post above was more of a brief afterthought comparing to the rest - which you correctly noticed. So good catch - it shows to me your advice is coming from observation/experience and deeper insight. A man who's doing the work.

Very grateful for you being so respectful and providing value. Have a nice day as well!

Edited October 21 by Sincerity

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Keryo Koffa said:

myself am constantly grappling with the nature of consciousness and how it generates reality.
Everything is a form, energy, and movement intricately linked with your conscious experience.
The same consciousness that feels its own agency through you forms all life "outside" as well.
And there is much outside awareness from which new experiences spring, subconscious also.
I've had very powerful synchronicity awakenings some months ago, everything is coordinated.
Reality is a projection of the internal psychic structure that believes/perceives it into existence.

That's true,  it's very interesting to see the synchronicity of the external and internal field . Seems that the outside is vibrating in the same frequency than the inside 

Edited October 21 by Breakingthewall

[theleelajoker]

20 hours ago, Sincerity said:

@theleelajoker Bravo. A man who observes himself.  It is evident from your words. Huge respect for you!

...

Thanks a lot for sharing your wisdom. Would love to get a beer with you sometime. 

@sincerity: Same applies to you ; )

Edited October 22 by theleelajoker

[Davino]

@Sincerity I hope you write more posts. I like the way your mind works and I instantly saw this was genuine insight from direct experience.

Regarding attention, I was obsessed trying to understand it, for years. It's boggling to realize the role attention plays in one's life. In magick it is said, where attention goes life flows. I realized that whatever I put my attention to, it shaped my whole life. I put my attention in my studies, I learn and become a professional. I put it in martial arts and I become body aware and strong. I put in spirituality and I'm having insane Awakenings.

What is this weird thing called attention? How is it possible that it plays such a role in my life? Moreover, how can I go meta from attention if I'm using attention to cognise attention? Is my attention located somewhere? Is there an arrow of attention? What are the mechanics of attention?

Like this I wondered compulsively for countless hours that became days and months. Until the insight hit me. Finally I was able to unhook from attention and rest in boundless infinitely spacious Consciousness. For the first time I was able to go outside attention, into meta Awareness from within which attention was happening as contractions in an Infinite field, that shape shifted as tight fists that opened and closed, everything fluctuated and danced. Oh finally attention was realized. What a beauty it is.

Regarding the I, for sure I ain't gonna spoil that one for you. Leo already did it too much

Really looking forward to reading more insightful posts from you. It's been quite along time since I read anything in this section that I said oh that's real nice, independent and genuine. Lots of love