Why people do not like their content being trained on AI?

[Leo Gura]

48 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

I'll have AI abolish that

You are not gonna have any say in the matter. You will just be enslaved by the  corrupt sociopathic billionaires who run things.

You are a cow who billionaires wanna milk, if you let them. AI is just the latest name for their milking machine. You have as much hope to control this machine as a cow has to control a slaughter house.

Edited October 18 by Leo Gura

[Keryo Koffa]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are not gonna have any say in the matter. You will just be enslaved by the  corrupt sociopath billionaires who run things.

You are a cow who billionaires wanna milk, if you let them. AI is just the latest name for their milking machine. You have as much hope to control this machine as a cow does to control a slaughter house.

Even if they try to monopolize and impose artificial blocks upon AI, it will not hold.
It'll be far from this old movie-stereotyped dystopia prediction of "business as usual".
"Business as usual, just more capitalism, power disparity, techno empire slavery"
It's neither a gimmick nor a passive tool. AI will automate away work and ego.
To think that AI will stop developing and just stagnate as a power tool is short-sighted.

[CosmicLoaf]

I think it must be pretty painful sometimes. For example imagine an artist who creates paintings. These people often don't earn a lot of money.  I can imagine them being angry at ordinary people creating fake art in the style of the artist and selling copies online claiming these were created by the artist himself. There must be many other similar examples. In the end these AI models are tools that can be used in various ways depending on the user's motives.  

[Miguel1]

@Keryo Koffa

This is what spiritual brainwashing looks like.

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's such nonsense.

That's called theft.

I can replace Star Wars merch with a printer and Disney would sue me.

This is nothing close to what AI is doing and we already discussed this prior.

You will ruin the Disney brand with your shitty printer. You may be effectively destroying value here.

AI is taking your content and transforming it to something that cannot be tracked back to the original source.

And you are not addressing the net value that AI is adding to humanity. This is the most important point in my opinion. Some theft should be allowed if it results in far greater good, which is the case here.

[Keryo Koffa]

8 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

@Keryo Koffa This is what spiritual brainwashing looks like.

[Davino]

19 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

So why do people freak out over this? 

Essentially attachment
Attachment to their work and attachment to keep surviving from their work

Attachments exist for a reason, don't let spirituality delude you in this sense. On the other hand, it follows the same attachment mechanics spiritual people have discovered, so you can let go of it.

Edited October 18 by Davino

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

This is nothing close to what AI is doing and we already discussed this prior.

You will ruin the Disney brand with your shitty printer. You may be effectively destroying value here.

I could make a cartoon or film with Baby Yoda or lightsabers that's better than the originals. But I would be sued out of existence.

Quote

AI is taking your content and transforming it to something that cannot be tracked back to the original source.

Except it often can be tracked back to the original source.

Like I said, AI is okay if it's just generating generic information. But AI is being used to copy people's styles, works, insights, art, and research.

Quote

And you are not addressing the net value that AI is adding to humanity. This is the most important point in my opinion. Some theft should be allowed if it results in far greater good, which is the case here.

That's a very bad argument. If you wanna add value to humanity, pay creators for it. This is not about adding value, this is about grabbing power and money by stealing data.

No company would allow you to use their data to "add value to humanity".

I could add a lot of value to humanity if I stole every movie, song, book, and course ever made and uploaded it to my own server for everyone to access for free.

I could add a lot of value to humanity if I could just rip off Disney characters and use them in my own movies and cartoons, or rip parts of songs and use them to make my own songs.

It is obvious that the entire business model of AI companies is to exploit value from other people's data. Because they aren't generating $100 billion in value from scratch. They are stealing $99 billion in data and then adding $1 billion to it of their own work to organize and format it.

It's obvious that the reason every businessman and investor is creaming his pants over AI is because it gives a 100:1 leverage of investment by exploiting existing data. These companies found a way to take the work of the entire human race and privatize it for themselves by avoiding copyright law. Yeah, no shit that's profitable. It's the biggest sneakiest theft in human history with the perfect cover story of "helping mankind".

There is no problem making AI. Just pay for the data. But that's exactly what they want to avoid. Because the real point here is not to help mankind but to exploit value for private gain. And they're trying to do it as quickly as possible because they know that these data loopholes will all be closed in the future. They have about 5-10 years to steal all the data before it gets locked down with laws and regulations. They are racing against the clock to steal everything they can.

Edited October 18 by Leo Gura

[bambi]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I could make a cartoon or film with Baby Yoda or lightsabers that's better than the originals. But I would be sued out of existence.

Except it often can be tracked back to the original source.

Like I said, AI is okay if it's just generating generic information. But AI is being used to copy people's styles, works, insights, art, and research.

That's a very bad argument. If you wanna add value to humanity, pay creators for it. This is not about adding value, this is about grabbing power and money by stealing data.

No company would allow you to use their data to "add value to humanity".

I could add a lot of value to humanity if I stole every movie, song, book, and course ever made and uploaded it to my own server for everyone to access for free.

I could add a lot of value to humanity if I could just rip off Disney characters and use them in my own movies and cartoons, or rip parts of songs and use them to make my own songs.

It is obvious that the entire business model of AI companies is to exploit value from other people's data. Because they aren't generating $100 billion in value from scratch. They are stealing $99 billion in data and then adding $1 billion to it of their own work to organize and format it.

It's obvious that the reason every businessman and investor is creaming his pants over AI is because it gives a 100:1 leverage of investment by exploiting existing data. These companies found a way to take the work of the entire human race and privatize it for themselves by avoiding copyright law. Yeah, no shit that's profitable. It's the biggest sneakiest theft in human history with the perfect cover story of "helping mankind".

There is no problem making AI. Just pay for the data. But that's exactly what they want to avoid. Because the real point here is not to help mankind but to exploit value for private gain. And they're trying to do it as quickly as possible because they know that these data loopholes will all be closed in the future. They have about 5-10 years to steal all the data before it gets locked down with laws and regulations. They are racing against the clock to steal everything they can.

Come on Leo, you are reducing this down to binary intentions from a singular monolithic entity, you cant seriously beleive in what you write here

Theres a whole host of different actors working in AI for myriad for different reasons and intentions. 

This entity that is out to conciously steal from people and monetize their theft as a singular aim, who are they lol?

This might be a valid criticism of AI, but to suggest its the main driver, sole focus, only intent or use for AI is an absurdity

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, bambi said:

who are they lol?

All the investors and CEOs.

Obviously some engineer just doing research is not planning this theft. He's a pawn that the business people use by paying his paycheck and funding his research.

It doesn't matter what the original good intentions were for this technology, it is then hijacked by devils.

Just look at OpenAI. Their original intent was a non-profit group to serve mankind. Now they abandoned that whole idea and sold out. You could not have a clearer example of what I said than that. It's literally happening as we speak, and you act like I'm talking some conspiracy theory.

Survival is not some "singular aim" that some bad guys have. It's what ALL corporations are doing ALL the time. They don't even know they're doing it. They think they're saving the world or some shit.

If you think that these people really care about "helping mankind", you're very naive. What they care about is power, money, monopolizing markets, and their own egos. Which is why half the heads of OpenAI have already been fired. They are so greedy and corrupt that they can't even get along within the same small company. They don't even care about their employees, and you think they care about mankind? These people would sell their mothers into sexual slavery, video tape the rapes, and feed those videos into their AI if it made them a few more billion. And they will do the same with you. And if there's an single one of the with some morals, he will be the first one fired.

Edited October 18 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

That's a very bad argument. If you wanna add value to humanity, pay creators for it. This is not about adding value, this is about grabbing power and money by stealing data.

Yeah its a false dichotomy. Creators being paid or compensated for their work and products is compatible with adding value to humanity.

 

 

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Some theft should be allowed if it results in far greater good, which is the case here.

Bobby go ahead and work for free and provide net value to humanity for the greater good.

Edited October 18 by zurew

[Xonas Pitfall]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are so greedy and corrupt that they can't even get along within the same small company. They don't even care about their employees, and you think they care about mankind? These people would sell their mothers into sexual slavery, video tape the rapes, and feed those videos into their AI if it made them a few more billion. And they will do the same with you. And if there's an single one of the with some morals, he will be the first one fired.

Hm, what would the psychology of people like this look like? Does it arise from prolonged exposure to toxic environments, or does the ego undergo a shift when faced with significant power, wealth, and influence? Is it a deep-seated distrust of society, thinking everyone is inherently self-serving or corrupt, leading them to adopt similar behaviors as a form of survival or dominance? Could it be an innate addiction to control and influence over others? A fear of vulnerability, where they see manipulation and exploitation as a necessary means to protect themselves? etc.

[bambi]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All the investors and CEOs.

Obviously some engineer just doing research is not planning this theft. He's a pawn that the business people use by paying his paycheck and funding his research.

It doesn't matter what the original good intentions were for this technology, it is then hijacked by devils.

Just look at OpenAI. Their original intent was a non-profit group to serve mankind. Now they abandoned that whole idea and sold out. You could not have a clearer example of what I said than that. It's literally happening as we speak, and you act like I'm talking some conspiracy theory.

Survival is not some "singular aim" that some bad guys have. It's what ALL corporations are doing ALL the time. They don't even know they're doing it. They think they're saving the world or some shit.

If you think that these people really care about "helping mankind", you're very naive. What they care about is power, money, monopolizing markets, and their own egos. Which is why half the heads of OpenAI have already been fired. They are so greedy and corrupt that they can't even get along within the same small company. They don't even care about their employees, and you think they care about mankind? These people would sell their mothers into sexual slavery, video tape the rapes, and feed those videos into their AI if it made them a few more billion. And they will do the same with you. And if there's an single one of the with some morals, he will be the first one fired.

Come on, no one is selling their mothers, its pure hyperbole.

Its way more complex then what you are painting,. Even OpenAI, they need infrastructure and hardware to compete at scale, this requires capital and investment. Sure its not inline with their original non-profit intent, but thats life shit changes. To even have a chance to positively impact AI they require significant investment that probably wasnt clear in beginning - or definatley wasnt clear, check the email repositories between Altman and Musk, its all on there

These things just arent simply mutually exclusive. You can want to make personal money and help humanity, or believe you are. 

Teams are more complex too, companies are emergent and evolving and stay productive and achieve your goals, personell changes are a neccassary requirement. Most tech startups should be viewed like sports teams not like your family dynamics.

You think NBA players being drafted end of the season is pure devilry too?

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I could make a cartoon or film with Baby Yoda or lightsabers that's better than the originals. But I would be sued out of existence.

Except it often can be tracked back to the original source.

Like I said, AI is okay if it's just generating generic information. But AI is being used to copy people's styles, works, insights, art, and research.

That's a very bad argument. If you wanna add value to humanity, pay creators for it. This is not about adding value, this is about grabbing power and money by stealing data.

No company would allow you to use their data to "add value to humanity".

I could add a lot of value to humanity if I stole every movie, song, book, and course ever made and uploaded it to my own server for everyone to access for free.

I could add a lot of value to humanity if I could just rip off Disney characters and use them in my own movies and cartoons, or rip parts of songs and use them to make my own songs.

It is obvious that the entire business model of AI companies is to exploit value from other people's data. Because they aren't generating $100 billion in value from scratch. They are stealing $99 billion in data and then adding $1 billion to it of their own work to organize and format it.

It's obvious that the reason every businessman and investor is creaming his pants over AI is because it gives a 100:1 leverage of investment by exploiting existing data. These companies found a way to take the work of the entire human race and privatize it for themselves by avoiding copyright law. Yeah, no shit that's profitable. It's the biggest sneakiest theft in human history with the perfect cover story of "helping mankind".

There is no problem making AI. Just pay for the data. But that's exactly what they want to avoid. Because the real point here is not to help mankind but to exploit value for private gain. And they're trying to do it as quickly as possible because they know that these data loopholes will all be closed in the future. They have about 5-10 years to steal all the data before it gets locked down with laws and regulations. They are racing against the clock to steal everything they can.

Valid points. I do agree that it's theft. And a few more thoughts.

1. Anyhow you need to keep the investor money flowing to fund the research & development. None of these AI companies are hardly profitable and wound not be anytime soon.

Paying for creators first would almost certainly halt the development as a whole.

2. If you respected copyright law and payed for every reasearch paper, College textbooks then it would be literally impossible for most people to do research.

Some of these laws are trash in my opinion.

3. As a small creator I feel like I have gotten plenty of value from AI already. So that is how the creators get "paid".

And the world will get more value for a lesser price over the course of my lifetime as I create more stuff with AI.

The real beneficiaries are the creators at the end of the day.

4. As far as corporatism is considered, we should acknowledge the devils and take measures to counter them with all we have got.

Some open source models are flattening the competition. Maybe if we can optimise the AI enough to run on local machines such that you have full ownership over your own AI, you can fend off the corporatism.

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Hm, what would the psychology of people like this look like?

It looks like all of Sillicon Valley, Wall Street, and Washington DC. Business as usual. Wake up and look for ways to make $$$, like a fly wakes up and looks for shit.

Edited October 18 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

11 minutes ago, zurew said:

Bobby go ahead and work for free and provide net value to humanity for the greater good.

I wouldn't have any problems working for free given that I can survive first. 

So me getting paid so that I can survive is the greater good for humanity.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I wouldn't have any problems working for free given that I can survive first. 

So me getting paid so that I can survive is the greater good for humanity.

You are the perfect milking cow for them. They are hoping everyone is like you and just bends over.

Edited October 18 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

You are the perfect milking cow for them. They are hoping everyone is like you.

Working for free doesn't mean wage slave position. It means working for the greater good of humanity.

You have built a channel while working essentially for free.

It's not like you got paid for creating videos on YT compared to other stuff you could have been doing.

That is what I mean too.

At the end of the day, all that matters is maximising the value for humanity.

[Bobby_2021]

I can access humanity's hive mind and gain insights from it for 20$/mo.

It's a steal in my opinion. 

Value I gain >> Value I lose 

In return, they could take my data.

Now I know they could turn on milking mode in future. But a lot more things might happen in future that could democratise AI.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I can access humanity's hive mind and gain insights from it for 20$/mo.

It's a steal in my opinion. 

Value I gain >> Value I lose 

Haha!

That's cause you haven't created anything valuable yet.

When you invest 20 years creating some valuable data and these tech douches steal it for $20, you will understand what I said here.

It's hard to appreciate theft when you got nothing worth stealing.

Edited October 18 by Leo Gura